SHCIC – The Investment Club

The time line is imminent. Here’s an update and an explanation of what to expect. Most important how to best use the club to create the investment opportunity and to create the elusive passive stream of income.

It requires some commitment and effort from you to make it worthwhile. Trading is like running a business. You take risks for returns. There is no magic formulae. Practise makes perfect. The more you apply yourself intelligently to trading the better you will become.

Good-luck

 

Author: Wong Kong Thean

Interests: Join any activity like stay and tour plans.

52 thoughts on “SHCIC – The Investment Club”

  1. The forex and non-equity derivatives are ready to run. We have the broker, banker and premise now.

    It is just that we are waiting for the equity side led by Dennis Har. They are working out some technical issues on the trading methodology.

    But have you guys been familiarising yourselves with trading and investment. This is not a spectator sport. You can start by reading up and attending the many free trading and investments previews. There is also a lot of information out there.

    In the investment club we will help to mentor you in trading with practical workshop. You can trade alongside experts. It focuses on the practical techniques of winning. When we start we will get straight into the water.

    If you are a total newbie you should get yourself informed first. We will not duplicate the basic education since this is readily available outside.

    Spend this waiting time to familiarize yourself with the markets.

  2. Whether an investment club succeeds will depend on the participants. This is a question which several of us including Terence is asking ourselves.

    Other than social activities, SHC as a group do not seem to take initiative in other activities.

    For example, I am involved in several investment groups. Just tonight one group met at Ikoi Japanese Restaurant, Miramar Hotel. (Serves all you can eat Japanese buffett. Wide variety of food at about $35 per head. Food better than your conveyor belt variety and excellent value.)

    Everybody contributes in the discussion. At the end of the day you go away with a handful of trading tips and ideas. It is not all serious. Such discussions tend to drift to entertainment, shopping, holidays and food too. No point just making money if one do not think of how to spend it well.

    I have not seen this happen much in any of the SHC meetings. It poses the obvious question. Is SHCIC right for SHC ? And vice-versa?

  3. Having a flavour of what an investment club can be, I will explain whhat is meant by a peer system.

    It is actually very easy to make money. One need to be a self made expert in what you trade. It could be as little as one or two companies or could be a whole portfolio of instruments. The key is to be better than the market average for the chosen set.

    Others specialize on methodology. Eg. they have a favorite scanning and a timing/trigger technique.

    Instrument and/or methodology, no one can be or need be good at everything. The idea of peer system is for a group of experts to share their area of focus with others. Everyone benefit from the larger field of investigation and opportunities.

    This was how SHCIC was originally perceived. It remains to be seen whether a peer system can be formed.

  4. There is no need to be selfish or KS in trading/investment. Members as a group is incapable of moving any market.

    It is not like we have a Warren Buffett or Soros as a member.

    Your win is not someone’s loss. It is a win-win case to share. So learn to share if you have anything to pass on.

  5. KT,

    So tim the buffett soros did share with you his SAF-Albirex tip which you’d rather not hear (SAF beat Albirex by 1 solitary goal and tim is still puffing sorrows, haha).

    I cant overstate more on yr point abt reading-up, in football as in other investments.

    Not too long ago, I was asked by kakilangs whether a certain stock was ripe for the picking. I believed it was but the market turned turtle the week following when the sub-prime debacle took centre stage.

    To me, that was a blip and the tide is now ready to rise, even higher this time. But for how long, are there any more undercurrents lurking?

    This is a gamble any ordinary investor will hv to take unless he’s a buffet or a sore-low who has the resources to single-handedly move the mart.

    Good to see yr initiative taking off.

  6. I’m interested to learn about investment. Need to make my hard earned savings grow in order to beat inflation. Have to be prepared in case I’m still around for another 30 years.

    Cheers
    Alice Seah

  7. Tim,

    Many people including myself will want to know how to make the first deal in soccer betting from an expert like yourself.

    Why don’t you call for an event in a soccer ready place. We’ll play real time with the English clubs. Eg Shirley’s hotdog wagon is in a 24/7 koptiam. They have a large a TV screen. No air-con but we can arrange for a special English hours playoff with unlimited supply of hotdogs. Or what about Mr. Beer with unlimited supply of joyjuice.

    Many SHC-ians like hawker food around the island. We will take turns to “ta-pau” or takeaway to the soccer place or SHCIC. Makes the money-making a gourmet event too.

    We’ll come armed with PC’s and on-line backup if necessary. Have fun by all means. But if it is real money, we play to win.

  8. Dear K.T.,

    Agree with you that Ikoi at Miramar is value for money. Had eaten there a few times and in fact had tried to have dinner there with a SHC group last month but was told it was fully booked for a week.

    Am still in your investment group hoping to grow my savings so keep me in the loop pls?

    Catherine Y

  9. Hi Wong KT ,Tim Ah liu and others,

    FORGET abt Soccer Betting and Social Welfare for the time being.

    Try out the LATEST 4D craze instead with BLESSINGs from the “MONKEY GOD TREE and the
    ELEPHANT GOD Tree at Jurong West.

    A lot of punters are flocking to these trees lately.

    WHY NOT for a change of LUCK ?

    Tomorrow,the New Straits.Times . newspapers will print out the 4D prize winners after requesting “HELP” from the Monkey God tree
    ” La Tok ” for 4D nos.

    Very Holy indeed. They WON the prizes. Easy $$$$$ lah!.

    STRANGE ? but TRUE.
    Steven Chan

  10. KT,

    None can lay claim to being a soccer bet expert.

    Consider this, why wd people pay Beckham USD300mio over 5 years? Where do they find the $ to keep John Terry for SGD 400k equivalent/week? And what made a deposed PM buy over a soccer club………….if soccer betting is merely what meets the eyes?

    Punters will hv to outsmart the hands that steer these syndicates, and that’s what soccer betting is all about. It’s a psychological game.

    (I told this China-born reflexologist, while having treatment yesterday, to go all out for outsider Yokohama FC (playing away vs favourite Gamba Osaka, with 2 goals to spare). Alas, he wd not hear and thumped $500 on GO (incidentally, the team name means Osaka Flying Kick) and got a hefty kick on the mouth.

    I had quite a rewarding weekend.

    In terms of %, you can make more than share, stock $-mart investments in a day (or lose as much) but dont ever play big on soccer bets. The reason is obvious.

    Like in racing dividends, the pay-out will drop quickly with more $ placed on a certain result, and that’s when the syndicate ‘siu tuar” (collect tickets), having a full view where the herd is heading.

    The really astute investors include Oei, who made giant killings in uic, natsteel etc, even Peter with his famous condo block purchase. Or the now-split 2Gs.

    Not a bad idea to watch the epl at Shirley’s kofishop, and we can do live-bet vs each other for the next beer & lup-cheong as the match progresses.

    Ai mai?

  12. Oh yes Charles and KT, I have heard about this system and I will be attending their free talk once I get my butt off my chair. KT, hope you can share with us your views here.

  13. T3B system is a basic technical analysis education course. Like many other local equity schools notably Adam Khoo’s, Mirriam, Michael Wu etc they take you through the more popular technical analysis indicators and rudimentary money management methods.

    Note: 90 % of the schools teach you the same textbook stuff. They are distinguishable mostly by their choice of triggering and timing strategy from the universe of TA tools.

    One of the main triggering technique advocated by this school is a trend breakout method. The chart looks like a series of steps. In the literature it has many variations going by popular names like Silver or Sky channel/trend.

    Does it work. In my opinion, “No”. There is no holy grail for a triggering and timing signal. It works 50% +/- 5% of the time. It is what you do thereafter which will dictate whether you win or lose in the long run.

    T3B is strictly a relatively slow trending market system eg Asian stock markets like Spore. It is not suitable for fast volatile markets like forex and many derivatives. It is also not quite suitable for many USA stocks. If you use this it is best to backtest on the specific item before playing cash.

    A good entry can be messed up by poor money management and vice versa. Unfotunately, most of the schools don’t get far into this subject. If they really know how to land the eagle, they probably won’t be teaching.

    You don’t find Warren or Soros teaching do you? Those who can trade don’t teach.

    A lunch with Warren costs US$650K last and all you get is to eat a rare steak, drink pink coke and talk cock. And, Joy, even if he kisses you, it won’t make a cock king.

  14. Why would Warren need to teach when all he needs do is have lunch. And oooooh, if he kisses me, I will leave my face unwashed till Talentime night (need to at least present a face as clean as Ron Lai’s). Let me go look for the US$650k first. Wonder which bed it is under.

    And KT, “those who can trade don’t teach”. Is that why we haven’t seen your ad in the papers. Guess I won’t bother to move my butt now.

  16. Joy,

    The lesson is in investment. Not kissing.

    After the kiss, resell kiss on the same unwashed portion for USD 325K. Sell ten times.

    Sell photos and T-shirts of the first kiss and subsequent. Write a kiss-and-tell book on Warren. Run a global Warren Kiss franchise.

    All in the spirit of investment.

  17. Joy,

    Any good sportsman enjoy their game passionately. They seek every opportunity to compete with the best and improve their game by playing with peers.

    Generally, only the “over-the-hill” players coach. Once they make the tabloids with their girlfriends and high life, they start to look like an old and tired Tyson.

    If you want to learn from the greats, you try to play with them in a clinic if you can get to one. If not, try to play with people who has played with them. This is not cheap nor easy.

    Financial trading has this unique advantage. Every trade you make you play with the entire market which will comprise the greatest and the best collectively. If you win consistently against the market, you know you have best the game against the best in the world.

    And you are richly rewarded for your efforts.

  20. Dennis,
    I can join in the discussion. Not ready to take on a key role in committee at this point of time.
    Thanks for all the hard work, organizing these activities.

  21. Charles, tks for being the first to be on the list. The early bird shall catches the worm. Your email noted and here is the additional info. Look at your own personality and develop a trading Plan on it i.e if you are more fundamentally incline then your approach such be Fundamental Analysis and team up with others to complement for a more complete strategy.

    Trading is never easy especially hard earned money is involved (Greed & Fear = Emotion).

    If the SHCic is successfully setup. I think collectively there is a possibility of combining resources to achieve a small goal.

    Lets achieve our number for a early meeting.

    Dennis Har

  24. Pardon this newbie for butting in, but after reading the posts here, a couple of things come to mind.

    KT: Re #13. First of all, forex trading is out of my depth. I dabble only in stocks – in Australia. I am a big fan of technical analysis, which has served me well in my shares trading. Your reply to Charles about the T3B system is very comprehensive. However, I feel it should be made clear to Charles that if he wishes to trade in stocks rather than forex, then technical analysis can have merit. Would you agree?

    I wish also to take you back further to comment #2 and your point: “Other than social activities, SHC as a group do not seem to take initiative in other activities.”

    This, I feel, is such an important point for this club of very mature people. I am very surprised that there has been no discussion (I apologise if it had been discussed before I joined) about the proposed annuity scheme – a scheme that is going to have a very direct impact on nearly every member here.

  25. Hi all,

    I had spoken to KT to call for a meeting of this Investment Club. Tks KT for the go ahead and join us.

    It will be held at Scorebot 7.00pm Wednesday, 19 dec07. Hope that we can have regular meeting in the future.

    All with some experiences in whatever instruments please come forward. Your participation will determine what we see at SHCic. Every effort to make it a success count.

    Post your interest here…

    Dennis Har

  26. Hi Dennis

    Thanks for the arrangement at Scorebot… I’ll try to make the meeting if only to give my feedback and suggestions. Yes, we do have many issues affecting SHCs; and investing and getting a reasonable return on our savings is one of them.

    Ron-Oz: Annuities have been discussed by SHC… it is a different situation in Singapore where a Minimum Sum of S$100,000 of your CPF funds is set aside to use/place in an annuity when you reach 55 years. Unfortunately, with the low interest rate environment in Singapore, the payouts at age 62 (increasing to 65 soon) are paltry. So there’s very little interest or incentive in annuities.

  27. Hi Dennis Har,

    I am interested to attend the SHCic meeting on next Wednesday (19 Dec). Let’s see what we can come up with in this setup. Thank You.

    Ronald Lee

  29. Oz@24 et al

    Glad to be back. Have been holidaying and helping some lucky SHC members to set up a direct investment, passive income fund for their retirement.

    So clearly there are more creative ways than one to get to a golden retirement. A few of us have wrote extensively on standard market instruments like reverse mortgages and annuities. Many people are only just now beginning to ask the questions which we posted earlier in the year.

    Everyone who is concern about their maintaining their quality of life should attend the series of talks organised by SHC. The latest is on Fri 21 Dec at Scoreboard see Dennis@28.

    It comes with a sponsored wine tasting session. Which is very timely because after you hear what they have to say, you will need a stiff drink. If you don’t, either you don’t understand what’s been said or you continue to be in deep self-denial.

  30. Ken @ 26

    We are in trying times. If you don’t think that you have a problem by now, you are either deep in the money or deep in shit.

    Our resident guru is right again. Annuity alone may not be enough. Relatively.

    If you can only recall our official longstanding sub-1% inflation rate, you may even feel rich with an average return hereon of 3 to 5% pa. Hold on! Did anyone read a brief mention of a projected 5% pa for Q1 08. Probably few. Some smart money is betting on an above 8% pa inflation.

    Money will never be enough if you cannot beat inflation and cost of living. You can’t beat it with only one or two passive investments. If you are not finacially savvy, force yourself to learn. Sow your financial portfolio now. Time is money. Sow early, reap early.

    Otherwise, you may just miss your only ticket to a decent retirement before you reach 100. If you are still kicking after that, money and everything else is probably not important. The only thing to look forward to then is for someone to switch off the machine and let you go in peace.

    We talked about active investments on Mon and will be talking about standard instruments on Fri 21 at Scorebot. If you don’t know when to invest what to build your portfolio, then come to the talks. Share ideas and learn from experts how you can beat the statistics and make everyday a holiday.

  31. Even @ 8%, it’s (using the famed phrase) “affordable” & China’s inf;ation, running @ double digits, will be quickly cited to soothe you.

    With the world collapsing in the aftermath of CDOs, sub-prime loans, and Tumasick lending big $ to u-best and doing precious little to address the poor at home, dont be surprised if the inflation becomes a smaller number than 5 or 8………hippeee, inflation rising at the multiplier of one point five (1.5) times only every mth………………

  32. Hi Kenneth

    I refer to your post #26 re annuities.

    If, as you say, there is very little interest or incentive in annuities because of the low interest rate, then why are we allowing the CPF to set aside $100K (no small sum) in an annuity for us at age 55 only to get paltry payouts at age 65? Why, why, why???

  33. Reminds me of a childhoodlum idiom…………..

    Why why why……………….

    Bcos he made the sky so high

    K… n… l… b… c… c b………………………..

  34. Tim @ 31,

    Don’t blame them. They are caught in a web of their own urban myth.

    Civil servants has seen effective double digit annual growth in their renumeration. And they are feeding on a salary range which has already quadrapuled in a quantum leap to 4+ times the world average of $250K pa for top G executives. No wonder a 8% to 15% pa return to survive is not in the realm of their professed reality. Imagine the mass confusion if people start to be sanguine about their belief that CPF + and “risk-free” returns can make life affordable.

    This even affects the nouveau riche who is sitting on properties worth millions. If you live in the same property that made you the nouveau crowd; you don’t rent or downgrade to release the capital gains, then riche is a future for you. To be rich now, you must be able to match cashflow for cashflow.

    Your rate of return on net worth must equal your real inflation to stay in one place. Otherwise expect to be poorer by the year. This puts the concept of “risk-free” into proper perspective. What is “risk-free” if it guarantees to put you into poverty?

    Cut to the chase. IMO, the average person needs to have leveraged investments returning more than 10% pa to protect their way of life hereon. You need leverage because unleveraged your active investment quantum is normally a fraction of your networth. If you have only cash investment half that of your networth (most people have less) then you need 16%pa to beat an inflation rate of 8% eating into your wealth.

    Unless you savvy yourself into investment, you can’t escape the spiral with the returns you can get form. If not, you are bondage to an illusion of wealth.

    Now, you know why you have to work for the rest of your natural life.

  35. Thanks Khong Thean for your observation. I agree with you use of leverage instruments is necessary because most of us only put a fraction of our networth into investment to minimise our risk exposure. This is the only way to get a higher return percentage on our investments.

  36. Oz @ 32

    Annuity alone, money is probably not enough. But you will need them as instruments or vehicles for real wealth generation.

    Using annuities and other “risk-free” instruments, you can create a leveraged compounding portfolio to stay ahead of the curve.

    In the brave new world to come, “risk-free” is meaningless. This investment concept will become as extinct as you if you continue to believe in it. The subprime and CDO meltdown put paid the final myth to the legend.

    Replace “risk-free” with “poverty-free” investments.

  37. Verily, KT.

    Years ago when one was seen just once with the party, people wd say “cheng-hu lang lai liao…..chao lang, siem……”

    Now, almost everyone falls hands over heels, clamouring to be identified with this glamorous party. A liaison is as good as a sure-win ticket to fortune and opportunities………

    Yes, civet servants hv long been deluded into believing that at 32, even with diapers still hanging btwn their legs, they shd earn at least $250k annually. So to be seen as working hard and so be appraised favorably, they made policies, tailored them, reshaped, reinvent, fixed & re-fixed, then shelved the policies and finally scrapped them altogether. Ok, time for new policies bcos we must be nimble and react to changes………..huh? Hahaha.

    Parents were in a fix, confused; their school-going kids went thru a trying time & lucky if they werent shattered. “Streaming” is a good policy cos it sieves out the chaff & retains the creme de la creme. Nvm, let the stream wash the other kids down into the deep blue sea and they’re safe there, away from the devil. So the 1/6 who hv gone goodu continue to grow in numbers.

    Thanks for sharing with us the chances & pitfalls of investments and the need to leverage.

    Having been ousted in a power-play on the last day of November, and having returned fr a short break, I hv been lucky to make an average of $200 daily in my type of investment which isnt too bad if that can be guaranteed. Tho my investment is legal & flawless, and the % returns are high but the outlay low, I aint encouraging anyone to join in cos the kelongs are just too many, too omnipresent if I may add.

    Ultimately, I may hv to go to the Middle East where my next calling appears to come from.

    Heee, you’re right, I might just hv to work for the rest of my natural life, trading horses for camels.

  38. Alamak!!

    I should have listened to my grandmother who said that I should take a “chenghu” job and be assured of an iron ricebowl… Now, at age 60, It is too late, and I don’t enjoy pension and free medical. Also CSC sports club and “auntie lucy” karaoke clubs and jackpot rooms.

    Ron-Oz: Incredulous as it seems, the gahmen forces a Minimum Sum Scheme on the CPF contributors, retaining the amount of $100,000 or more at age 55, to be used to purchase an annuity OR to be paid out in monthly drips when we reach 62 – 65 years. Why, Why, Why?? Because Singaporeans don’t know better and rely on the gahmen to decide everything for them.

    Also the gahmen is afraid that we’ll all be on the dole and expect handouts… so everyone must save enough to cover our old age and health care costs. Now, they are still debating how to get everyone to contribute to an old-age annuity which will pay out only when you’re 80 the princely sum of $300… which by then would be enough for taxi fares to the hospital only.

    Tim Lui: You’ve always been a horse-trader… so there should be no problems switching to camels. Only thing, you must learn a new language to swear in… Swahili?

    Hahaha!

  39. Sure, Kenneth, bugger you do, bugger you dont. And with yr kindness of teaching me to say “swahili”, you think I can survive in swaziland?

    I’d rather say “seksailei” and be endeared to the Cantonese…………..

  40. Ken @ 38

    Absolutely right on.

    The retention of CPF for drip feeding or annuity serves one purpose and that is to save the government a lot of money for old age support. It does not benefit anyone since it only means that the government hold back your own money which could otherwise be better invested elsewhere for a long time.

    It makes no sense unless we assume people do not know what to do with their own hard earned money. Why do we need someone to force us into savings which pay us less than our real inflation rate thereby making us poorer by the year. Forced savings mean we have less to spend now and whatever we saved is worth less in the future after net of inflation.

    What we want is to have more now and more later. This can only happen if your investment portfolio yields more than inflation.

    Invest wisely yourself for your own future.

  42. Tim @ #37

    What’s this about $200 daily. Net or gross income? Sounds sizzling. Are we on football pools or trading camels.

    What about sharing your investment ideas with us on 19 Dec wine-tasting-cum-investment-talk party.
    http://www.scorebot.biz/DH/Wine_Tasting.htm

    Seriously, with investments knowledge is key since in our borderless wired world execution is just a key away. Just one good making idea can make you rich.

    Now about putting the camel on ebay …..

  43. Hi SHCic members,

    A soft reminder.

    We are having the Investment Club meeting this Friday.

    Date: 21Dec, 2007

    Time: 7.00pm to 8.00pm

    Venue: Scorebot, 18 Bali Lane

    Cost: F&B as you like

    Agenda: What we like to see in SHCic going forward.

    Since friday there is also other event. I can only arrange for max. 10 person.

    Tks for your understanding.
    Roland Lee so you are cfm.

    DennisH

  46. Hi all SHCic members,

    With reference to our meeting on the 21st December 2007 the Club will be having regular meeting on the 1st & 3rd Friday of every month. Venue is scorebot @18 Bali Lane, Time 7:00 to 8:30 pm, Cost is purchase of F&B. Those with Notebook please bring along.

    Any proposal on Agenda please post here or else it will be just a general sharing on Investments and meeting new Traders.

    DennisH

    SHCic member.

  47. Besides investing and trading financials, we should also examine interest in direct investments into small businesses.

    There are a number of suitable virtually riskfree businesses that one can get into. If you have an area of interest, you can barter your service or product to help finance your business. Your first contract within the barter community will minimize your startup costs and get you into a cashflow financed growth phase without much risk capital to start.

    This form of creative finacing is suitable for a whole range of small business activities. Think about it. If you cannot sell your first contract within a huge business community with no-money-down, you better not even start.

  48. Hi members,

    A reminder for meeting.

    We are having the Investment Club meeting this Friday.

    Date: 4 Jan, 2008

    Time: 7.00pm to 8.00pm

    Venue: Scorebot, 18 Bali Lane

    Cost: Purchase F&B

    Agenda: Any proposal post here. If not just bring your notebook. We may need to surf for investment tool.

    Member
    DennisH

  49. For your DIARY

    23 Jan 08 Wed 7.30am PowerTrader Breakfast

    Location : Scorebot Centre

    Description : A fortnight gathering of traders and investors to discuss financial topics over breakfast. Confused about A, B and H shares? Want to know more about an increasingly influential yet volatile markets? The speaker is an expert on China market and will share his understanding about the Chinese stock market.

    Fees : $10/pax (includes breakfast)

  50. Hi Dennis,

    As the name of SHC is used, can you confirm if this event is strictly for SHC members? Advertising is not supported on this forum.

    Terence Seah

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