Besides holidays, dancing and makan, I am glad to see that there are others in our membership coming up and sharing their ideas, although they may not want to raise their ideas in the Club forum for members to discuss. One main reason is being slammed down by experts and Mr Know Alls, even before the topic gets underway. Sometimes, I wonder how some members know that I am in Singapore. Well, I found out that if these members see that I have registered for an event, it is likely I am around that day. I do make an effort to come for discussions, if my time permits.
This discussion is interesting; it had been raised before during the early days of the SilverHairsClub; but it had been slammed down due to I forgot what. Start again. We had discussions about a physical club and a place. It has always been “Why not? Members need a physical place to call home. We never got anywhere. Today’s property prices are high. It may drop after cooling measures. Prices may also go up and higher too because of limited land in Singapore, unless a major disaster happens. During the recent business networking meeting, I had a chat wit a fellow member, who was looking at some properties. What not we share to buy a property? Maybe for investment. Of course, there will be nitty gritties, risks and …., but we have so many experts within SHC. We have so many members, maybe 50 or 100 are looking to invest in a property, something. I dont want to over jump the options. We have financial experts, property experts, bankers, … lawyers, and investors. Some want to invest, others want keep their money in the bank, and others put their money under the flower pot.
Let’s discuss an idea. If, for example, we use a number of SGD 3m. We aim to raise that number. Let’s say we have interest participation for 40 people. If this works, this would mean 75,000 per lot. Let’s say we raise this over 6 months. There will be 3m in the kitty. This will be one group. They come up with options, buy backs, interests, the financial managers, etc.
Meantime, another group can look at what to do with the 3m. Maybe, buy a commercial property. Maybe take over a company or business. Invest in a co-operative. Sure, if there is 3m, it is easier to talk. Without, it will still be easy to talk. Perhaps, IvanL, you may have some ideas too. Maybe we can do something that will benefit us, through our SilverHairs years. So, the 2nd group looks at the investment opportunities.
I think we can have the last group, which will look at protecting the investors. Many times, we failed in such discussions, because we are all talking about retirement money. If it fails, what happens. Are the pluses attractive vs the negatives. Can we buy back? Etc. I guess a lot to discuss. Experts, experienced members, and ordinary members, how can we take this forward.
I think there some members will offer very negative comments and viewpoints. While I agree there can be negatives, how about thinking how to make the idea work. We have enough brains and expertise to fine tune the idea.
So, let’s use $3m as the target to raise to invest, look at what we can invest with 3m and finally how to safeguard our interest.
** Thank you to the people who caught me when I had some time in Singapore. I love to listen to ideas. So, let’s start.
Terence Seah
I thought that the share investment posting was as speculative as it gets…until this!
Wah, $3,000,000! For a nest egg to put into whatever!
Terence, we must tread with care; even if we get 40 persons to pony up $75,000 each!
As an aside, we can’t even get two persons to commit to a short-term lease to rent your apartment in Bangkok.
Hi Kenneth,
I am as careful as you and everybody. This is a discussion. Even, if the details finally do not work, we can generate good discussion.
But as I said, we should not jump the gun to the end results. We have always people who think inside the box, and people who think outside the box.
Please give other members a chance to contribute their opinion and comments. I d respect your opinion.
Terence Seah
Haha!
Terence, you know me… I’d not hurt a flea…maybe smack him down!
Yes, I’m all for discussion and bringing up differing views; I also support any good idea or venture as long as it adds up.
I think we’ve also put the cart before the horse: Amassing a $3 million-dollar war chest before even knowing what to do with it. Let’s have some three million dollar ideas first…and then I’ll see if I would commit my $75,000 towards them. And the rest of you guys… Please raise your hands if you’re willing to do the same!
Please remember that any opinion
…or comment would be welcome. Any idea or view as to how we could use the 3 million to generate profits while keeping it safe would be most welcome.
When in Secondary school (Sec 1, I think), the teacher gave us a title to write a composition. The title was, “What will I do if I am a millionaire”. Note the present tense, as the teacher thought it was possible, even at a time when my father was earning around $500 per month and had 9 mouths to feed at home. I was not alone however. Almost all my classmates were as high and dry as I was.
Nevertheless, we had to write something for the sake of getting a good mark for the compo — so there were all sorts of aspirations, ambitions, imaginations, hallucinations etc. My piece – I would give half of my million to charity. The rest was to buy a house, a car, new clothes and travel around the world with my family. I got 70 out of 100 for that piece – not for the bull stuffs therein but for my relatively good command of English.
Fast forward and now, due to inflation, I am asked what I shall do with $3 million. I am not sure if I still can get 70 out of 100 but what the heck, why not give it a crack?
DC
Hi Ken, DanielC,
I do not have a list of which countries t travel to. Am just trying to facilitate an opportunity for those who wants to go to a particular country. Maybe on Eurorail across Europe.
Far away or for that matter, travel needs planning. DanC is right, cmpanions are important, but we don’t know until we know one another.
To help with planning, I am going to suggest a meeting where, say, thse WH are interested to say, go to California, say so on this forum. Then, we organise a meeting and group all those who are interested in going to California meet. The rest are details and we leave the details to the group.
I am thinking of a meeting/gathering in May.
How about that? Everybody with an urge to travel and plan early. Please register here. You will meet by interest groups.
Terence Seah
It’s always the chicken and an egg story. Do you talk about plans when you have no money. Sometimes, we dare not even talk.
Of course, if we have $3m in the kitty or in the garden, then it is easier to talk and plan. If we have $1000, we can plan to a $1000.
This $3m is a figure I picked up from the money plant. There is no plan behind it for now. But, we should have a target number.
In our early days, members ask and talk about a Club house. The issue is how to have a social club without a Club house.
Serious dreaming is a way to making our ideas cming through. Let’s discuss openly.
Terence Seah
Hi members
With $3m you can do a lot of things.
Let’s dwell on a subject which is familiar to many detail investors in the stock market.
Firstly, the amount does give you the clout to achieve the economy of scale.
For illustration, if a investor has $10000, how many shares can he buy, even it is a penny stock of $0.20. However if he incurs a capital outlay of $50000, he can buy 250000 shares. If within the day, the stock went up $0.04 his profit would be
$10,000. BTW it is very common for penny stocks to fluctuate 4 cents within the day.
Secondly, many a person buying into a stock based on rumours or just throw a dart at a board blindly without due diligence. They are at the mercy of the vagaries of the market. It is no better than gambling at the casinos.
Robert Ong
Hi..I eat full very free so just feel like chatting. Long vacation…boring…
4 people playing mahjong with a $ or 2 stakes can bring the roof down with their emotions and noise. Imagine if there are 40 people trying to tell each other what to do with 3 million bucks. The Chinese has a saying, “Talk money lost relationship” and another, “When money is concerned, there is no father and son”.
I am a people-observer so I tend to see things from a human point of view (pardon the pun). Sorry about displaying my pessimism once again. I am not saying this venture is absolutely mission impossible but 40 people looking after $3M? How leh? It could likely lead to court cases and bloodshed, and provides a good script for another long-winded Taiwanese drama on Ch8.
Hi Daniel Chan
WOW, DC (aka GK): refreshing viewpoint.. hilarious .. adds life to our forum page. Ah ha, indeed a good script for a drama on Ch 8. Let me quote:
“A sense of humour makes a man handsome”!!! Hahaha
Keep it up GK.
BR, SYS
Thank you Gab. Short and sharp — like message like messenger.
Back to the topic. Mathematics – assuming we have the 3M and a member calls the shot while the other 39 listen. Look for a financial product that pays a fixed 2 % interest per annum (any such thing besides CPF OA?). That works out to be 60K, or 5K per month. The interest alone is thus enough for us to rent a place to be used as a Club House, leaving the principal sum intact. Of course all the participants will see no interest in this venture. Anybody kee chew?
Only 2% return??!!
Last time our bankers had to work hard to pay us 5 to 6%; now we poor retirees only get 0.2% and they get million-dollar paychecks! The world is upside down today!
What I’m trying to say is that we should try to improve our returns without sacrificing risk… “An impossible task!” say our financial advisors… and they recommend unit trusts and fixed deposits with low yields and high charges!
So I have a request for some knowledgeable souls to come up with a plan to use the $3 million or what we have to produce a return above inflation and keep our money safe. Any bright ideas?
Kenneth and future retirees,
I do agree that 2%, 3%, 4% return on a $3m investment is low. However, we are surrounded by low interest rates.
Many Singaporeans Ave invested in a property, perhaps a HDB flat some 30 years ago for $28,000 or a shophouse for $60,000. Today, when sold, the HDB flat is $280,000 and the shophouse is $2.8m.
This post aims to generate more exciting figures with $3m.
How about buying a satellite? Or a part of a satellite? These companies can detect pieces of debris in the Indian ocean. Perhaps, we can even share to buy into a company that is expanding into Nigeria.
With all our brains, and with $3m, we could look at 50% or even double return. Let the brains roll.
Terence Seah
Wah…this post/comments becoming a two or three-way conversation… Maybe we should rephrase the question to elicit more responses:
If you are retired now with $3 million dollars what would you do to get a return above inflation and yet keep your capital safe?
Is there any investment or venture you would invest in to make a decent return without the risk of losing your capital?
Please share your ideas no matter how unconventional or alternative to the usual investments offered by financial institutions.
Yes, Kenneth, we can go along your line.
When this post was put up, the intended investment quantum was not in the 10s or couple of hundred thousand dollars. Most retail institutions take care of that, and many seniors do invest on this budget.
This Post seeks to bring the discussion into the open, that if the amount is say $3m, how can we can a group manage the investment. Hopefully, those with the capability with surface. So here goes again. If we pool together 3m, to buy maybe a commercial property in Geylang, talk about the who, how and what.
Terence Seah
Hello folks
Hahaaha, for the first time I had a hilarious guffawing time of my life reading the ding dong on this chat so cant resist gatecrashing into it
First & foremost, Kenneth is correct & I share both his & Dan’s pessimism abeit ‘its the facts’ what they have pointed out.
Terence & Robert are the optimistic guys & has the craziest ideas making this whole group chat an enjoyable read!
I am a newbie so shall not offer my suggestions unless it is warranted Let the old hats have a go on it first.
Zzzz
Hahaha…let’s have the old bats…I mean hats have a go!
I have small ambitions: How can I invest/trade $50,000 and make $2,000 or 4% per month with very little risk? I believe it is possible using options on US stocks but am still working on doing this on a consistent basis I.e. Using a systematic approach with only the top performing stocks and preventing loss through risk management. When I am ready to share this, I will conduct an introductory class for interested members, as I did many donkey years back in my early naive start in US equities.
I also know that there are several SHC members who make a good income out of trading forex and would like to encourage them to share their knowledge.
OK, this is a serious comment and there’s no bull about it!
I attended a “Investment Talk” this evening (Wednesday).
A local fund manager is in partnership with a land developer in Brazil.
The developer buys plots of raw land and adds value like infrastructure, landscapping, essentials etc and sell them to housing developers, apparently at a HUGE profit. The developer, together with the fund manager here, is looking for investors. They GUARANTEE 65% interest (they call it GAINS) in 36 months, or 3 years. Minimum sum to put in – S$10K. They welcome millions of course. Cheaper than buying a satellite. And more down to earth too.
If I have $3 million at retirement, I will start SPENDING it! Every month I will withdraw $5k and sing “What a wonderful world” and after 40 years, will still have half a million to bequeath. Happiness! :)
Seriously, if I contribute to a pool of 3 million, it must be from my spare cash so that if due to unforeseen circumstances, my investment is wiped out, I will not fall into depression.
I think with 3 million, one can invest in a few apartments in Iskandar Malaysia and rent them out or sell when that region is more developed. Another idea is to open a private school providing quality English education. (The rich in Malaysia and Indonesia send their children to private schools where English is the medium of instruction.)
2-ct’s worth
Hi Zara and Jassmine, nice to hear a refreshing view each from both of you. I think the audience at large is sick of seeing the same few “old hats” selling “koyo” here. This is a forum and we are in response to Terence’s plea, “I love to listen to ideas. So, let’s start”
I love selling “koyo” so here I am again,
I was in Genting Highlands for a 3D2N stay sometime in February.
On the first night, I made around 3K (ringgit), playing roulette and “dai sai” (3 dices). On the second day, up till 4 pm, I surrendered 1K of my 3K gains
By midnight of the second day, all my gains, as well as 800 RM of my capital, were gone. On the third day morning, prior to departure, I managed to plough back 1K.
Final results – I made around 100 RM in the casino, a small sum to subsidise my coach ticket.
This true story of mine illustrates how a high risk high reward investment works. Some people call it a gamble.
So far, I have given 3 examples here of what to do if we have the money,
1. 2% per annum fixed interest – safe and sound (99% safe)
2. 65% per 36 months to buy land – “GUARANTEED” but guaranteed? (50% safe maybe)
3. 100% or more PER DAY on the tables – you can become a bankrupt overnight
There is no free lunch in this dog-eat-dog world, as the saying goes. You want a high return you will have to die for it, literally for some. I know there are people who have had dabbled, or still dabbling, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in their respective trading markets. We would certainly want to hear from experienced people who can offer a high return low risk investment to the average punters – particularly retirees riding in the sunset.
Finally, Kenneth – your last comment makes sense. Would like to hear more from you. Hopefully, the only bull we see is a bull-run.
DC
I think all of us gamble to some degree. Who doesn’t? It’s probably how much we can set aside for gambling.
If we have $100, we may gamble $5.
If we have $10,000, we may games $88.
Yet, in every investment, there is a gamble. So, what do we do? I fly every week. I am beginning to think this is a gamble. How would I know that, instead of flying to Kolkata, the pilot takes me to the Indian Ocean. Someone gave me a smart advice. Don’t fly, just whatsapp.
DanielC raised fixed income as an investment, if we have $3m. I suggested buying a satellite, but someone shot me down. Hmm, I saw land and properties in Iskandar and Brazil. Well, how about buying a property or land in Singapore? Or, we engage an expert to manage our fund of $3m.
Or we keep hearing why we should not invest, if we have $3m in the kitty.
Dreaming is not a waste of time. Maybe to some. Dreaming brings people with visions or same visions together and we can then focus on our objectives.
From this post, we get to read what’s the background thinking of Robert ONG. We know his position. We read from Lau Eng Seng, and we know what he is doing and how he goes about in this hard world of ensuring survival. At the same time, we have another vision, from Jasmmine, and how she would travel the world and still find she has $2.5m left to play around.
I like the idea of buying a satellite. Look at what satellites have done in recent weeks to see 40,000 Russians surrounding Ukraine. It is an example of direction. How about a good property? Have you lost money in property? Now that I have gone this far, I read a suggestion to buy a few. May we may not want to invest individually but with 40 members, we may be able to engage experts to manage our $3m.
Keep looking ahead. If you think positive, there will be ideas. If you think negative, I guess that’s not the objective of this post.
Terence Seah
Will like to start with some stories in the followings:
Story 1
When I first come to Singapore, some people were asking me this question: “I heard that HK is “????”, is it true”. My answer was “Yes, it is true, do you know why?”. Some of them had no answer and some were saying like “There are many chances in HK”. Then, I said “In HK, when come to investment/trading, there are more loss than win. The losers drop many of their money in the ground, but not much winner can pick them up, so HK is really “????”.
Story 2
Once I have a boss, he always boast to me that “??? (I was not calling Andrew at that time), I never loss in the share market! I envious him so much but doubt about it. I did not know anything about share market, so I asked someone (A) who know more than me if my boss was telling the truth. He told me: “it depended on how you define “win” and “loss”. I know after he buy shares, he will sell those shares that gain, but keeping those loss. Now he should have a lot of shares in his drawer.
Story 3
There is one Chinese saying “?????”. If those don’t know about investment or trading and want to get big money from them, sure we can call them ?, and I am sure they will 100% become ?.
Story 4
Some may say: “Yes, I don’t know investment/trading, but I have some friends very good in it, they can give me tips to gain money. But I want to give an example to illustrate this may not be the case.
If a man gives 5 tips to two friends. After sometimes, it comes out 3 of them are good tips, and 2 of them are bad. The result of his two friend take his advice to buy shares, can have the following results (there will be a lot, just mention 3).
1. Both of his friends win
2. Both of his friends loss
3. One win and one loss
All the above are possible to happen, why? Because besides the tips itself, the win or loss also depend on:
1. the time to buy and sell
2. the money for buy and sell
3. the method of buy and sell
4. the attributes of buy and sell
All for those who don’t know share, I still want to say they have 98% to loss.
Finish my stories here. But when I review them, all of them seems negative. This is against what Terence said in his previous comment: “If you think positive, there will be ideas. If you think negative, I guess that’s not the objective of this post”. I am doing something wrong (sorry Terence), and must do something right to compensate it. I will give a method of investment (I read it long ago) for people’s reference.
I did not see my post posted though from above discussion, some or few get to read it. Or is it been censored
Leon
Hi Eng Seng,
I have checked and could not find any comments pending. The Club does not censor full comments or Post, as long as it stays outside politics, sex, religion, race, direct selling and MLM.
Terence Seah
Once upon a time, I read a method of investment (not trading). I never try it, as I don’t have enough money. But with 3m, May be we can give the method a try
There are some condition to meet, before applying the method. They are:
1. It is a long term plan, 5 years, 10 years ……
2 There are must someone, or a group of people who are good in investment, and the other will abide to what they decided
Now come to the method – Rebalancing
1 Set up a portfolio of investment that suitable for the group according to the risk/return. This should be done by those good in investment
2 Setting a fixed portion for the portfolio allocation from the very start.
For example, you set an allocation of 30% into US equities, 20% into Asia equities, 25% into Europe equities, 15% into Japan equities, and 10% into the new markets.
3.At the end of a fixed period like a year, markets would have moved differently. So, you then buy or sell which ever portions needed until you have the same exact allocation (same allocation as 2) again.
4 This exercise continues faithfully fixed period for as long as the portfolio is in operation
Principle behind the method
Basically, what this forces you to do, is to take profit from your best performing sectors/regions, and to invest more into the underperforming regions/sectors that year. It is a mechanical method that disregards what you think of markets. It works on the principle that no single market will ever be best performing all the time through the years, and neither will any single market ever stay down in the dumps every single year. So, as the market cycles go through their rise and falls, the method will eventually result in you buying more of a market when that market is low, and selling some of a market that has gone up sharply. Thus, it ultimately results in an investor buying low and selling high, which is the recipe for a successful portfolio
This is one of the method I read, but never try – poor and lazy, sigh
Many business or investment plan fails because they approach it in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly method
a) Tell the GOOD
b) Hide the BAD
c) Ignore the Ugly
Leon
There is one powerful method to profiting from trading, that is instinctive trading. I used this method plus reading share movement, reading news, and reports, long and short position etc
This method can only work for US or Euro shares And I only buy when the share price has dropped 50-90% from historical high
Wah, Christina!
We must learn from you…the adage that you buy when the market is fearful (50 to 90% down) and sell when it is greedy. I admire your instincts; you should apply to manage our $3 million!
Let us have more of such ideas and investment strategies; and let their proponents present their way to make a fortune.
How to do this with 40 investors
Instinctive means fast execution 3 of the stocks actually went under after I sold, Dead stocks, the rebound is fast and furious
Hi Christine
You’re definitely a technical trader…and a successful one at that!
Sharing your ideas or strategies doesn’t mean you have to teach someone to do it like you do: It’s just presenting very briefly or simply your techniques or approach. What we may take away is a new view or method to study or adopt in our investing endeavors.
I am sharing what I do with options with a very simple approach: To select strong, dividend-paying US-listed companies and sell options on them to achieve 4% return within a month or two. I believe in teaching a man how to fish so that he can do it on his own and not pay exhorbitant fees to a guru or investment advisory.
I Terence, I am quite disturbed by this statement from you, “Keep looking ahead. If you think positive, there will be ideas. If you think negative, I guess that’s not the objective of this post”.
Reference to your message to Kenneth dated April 5, 2014 at 10:43 am,
“I am as careful as you and everybody. This is a discussion. Even, if the details finally do not work, we can generate good discussion. But as I said, we should not jump the gun to the end results. We have always people who think inside the box, and people who think outside the box. Please give other members a chance to contribute their opinion and comments. I d respect your opinion.”
We should all accept that there is no such thing as positive or negative when we “respect” an opinion. Revelations based on personal experience are more meaningful than impossible dreams like buying a satellite. Thinking positive is different from building castles in the air.
If a preferred objective is to be realized at all costs, we do not call it a discussion. It is a policy or proclamation. The audience at large then has to accept anything, perhaps including buying Mars or Jupiter. This can only happen when talking to a meek population, or a bunch of unthinking old fools.
DC
Hi DanielC,
I believe that for a discussion to work, we have to encourage positive thinking. If we start to whack down other participants’s opinion and suggestions, this will discourage others from speaking up. I stand my position to support ideas generation, and the only way is to think positive about the topic in discussion.
Voicing a view is positive. There is a difference between saying “the topic is not worth being raised” vs “one has experienced a failure and would not recommend the suggestion or idea to anyone else”.
I do understand what you mean. However, let’s proceed as we have many members who are reading this Post, and the sharing is going well.
Terence Seah
I support Daniel’s view We should have freedom of speech here then more will come forward to share without fearing the whip from our boss here
I believe we live long enough to be so influenced by negative or positive views.
Hi Kenneth
I have read your approach on options trading in Us markets.
Basically you select those underlying stocks which give good dividends.
By this, I gather you buy a call option. But in option trading, whether the underlying stock goes up or down, a trader can make profit. As an illustration,
in anticipation of a falling stock, if the trader buys a put, and the stock price falls.
he closes his position, he makes a profit.
The above method is straight forward. I have known a trader who uses the unorthodox method and he consistently makes good returns. It is unlikely that
he will share his secret for the simple reason that not many people can grasp his
complicated strategy. In fact, worldwide, there are few traders who will subscribe or appreciate this method of trading.
I would like to invite your views on this real situation .
NSL paid div of 10c to a $ per share in the past few yrs. Ex dates in the last 2 years were 3/5/12 and 2/5/13 resp. In a media release of 25/2/14, it was announced that Subj to shareholders’ approval at the AGM to be held on 16 April 2014 (coming Wed), the Bd of Directors is recommending a div of $0.50 per share , comprising of a final div of $0.10/share and a special div of $0.40/share for the FY 31/12/ 13. This is the already known in the market.
NSL closed on the SGX at $2.16 on Fri 11/4/14. At that price, you could theoretically buy 1,384,000 shares with $3,000,000. On that holding, you will earn $692,000 in dividend income . This is the good news.
However, there is an unknown attached : to what extend will the price of NSL shares adjust (fall) to, when it goes ex-div.? It’s inevitable bec NSL price has clearly run up in anticipation of the special dividend. Simple arithmetic tell us that If the NSL were to be subsequently disposed off at a price below $1.675, then the entire dividend income wld be wipe out by the Capital loss. Conversely, selling the shares above that price, would result in money in the kitty. There is risk/reward in the investment.
Wld anyone care to advise, provide an idea or opinion as to what to do ?
Ps. While the Primary task is to figure out how much would NSL shares be priced upon becoming ex div. I wld be interested to hear how one cld cover the fall in price using an Option or CFD and whether such is available.
First you have to know the intrinsic value, then is there more growth going forward and how much has the price risen in the last 2-3 months
Usually not only 50cts is already factored in the price there tends to be extra push up, overrun in the price prior ex date. Then the price will discount more and then rebound and drip down again
that’s my observation
Hi HC Lee
Option trading is available only in other countries like the US stock markets.
However, in Singapore context, some companies do issue similar warrants.
In NSL case you have to check the availability of warrants.
To hedge against the loss of falling price of the underlying stock, a trader can buy a put warrant.
After the ex-date of the dividend, the price of NSL will correct and fall but it is
compensated by increase in value of the warrant but instead, if the NSL increases in price then the warrant will decrease in value. Corresponding, the
the value of the underlying stock will increase.
Robert Ong
Hi HC Lee
Further to my previous comment, a warrant( call or put) has an expiry date and premium to be paid. It has to be exercised or closed before expiry. Otherwise it will become worthless.
Thank you, Christina. Indeed, positive or negative is for each individual to consider and conclude. Members who read our postings have a mind of their own, don’t they. Thank you, Terence for your clarification. What you have said is exactly what I wanted to express. Perhaps to make it clearer — the Moderator or Chief should refrain from making pre-mature judgements, else nobody will want to contribute.
So far, we have not seen anybody passing ill remarks on another’s opinions/suggestions. Besides the “buying of satellites” which I find childish and silly, all the other contributions are interesting and valid. We are glad that there are many comments now. And good comments too. Let the ideas flow. Let the recommendations be raised. And let people play the “devil’s advocate” if necessary.
Let us also be realistic and tactful. The courteous ones may just giggle and keep silent when they read something downright preposterous. Sorry to say, but I will not hesitate to “whack” if ideas are seen to insult our intelligence.
DC
Hi Christina Pan,
Agree with your observation regarding price characteristics and the need to consider fundamentals when projecting the share price post div. In particular, often the week just before the share goes ex div, can present an opportune time to sell. Thank you.
Hi Robert Ong,
Yes, buying a Put option is the correct way to go in this scenario. Unfortunately, Stock options are now not available for stocks on the SGX. (Single-stock options were once introduced by SGX but it was shortly discontinued for lack of interest). Thank you.
In view of this, some traders go to the CFD market and take up “Short” position to cover the risk of loss arising from their “Long” position of NSL in the cash market. Many broking houses provide leverage trading a/cs to facilitate this, charging Interest on open positions until it is squared. Upon a cover perfected, the Risk is turned into a Reward.
I hope Many of you take advantage of this opportunity.
HC
No after ex shares in cfd will also be adjusted so you earn nothing or little Not worth the effort
A box of crayons- all white, black or colourful looks good?
Of course the latter so the same goes for this column on investments-by the time we reached the silver haired stage we are …ahem…….a little more intelligent to know if something smell or sound good or pretty bad, eh?
so let the interesting & also amusing dialogue flows, men !!
We have gone this far to discuss how we can raise $3m for an investment project, and what we can do with this $3m collectively.
Robert Ong conceptualised an investment of $10,000 each into the stock market. I brought up an idea of buying into a commercial property for the longer term. Kenneth went further into selected stocks in the US market. Hou Chong dwelled on options trading, while Chrsitina came in with her kill. Nobody like my idea of buying a satellite, Neither did DanielC.
Reading the discussion, our fellow investors are trying to outbeat the 1, 2 or 3% that we can get from known traditional investments. But, I am also reading here that if we have $3m collectively, we should be looking at 20, 30 or even 40% returns over a few years.
Hmm, we have not gone into how we are going to raise our $3m.
Our date for Sat 17 May afternoon is on, let’s meet then. Can we have your suggestions on how we can group to take different interests?
Terence Seah
Hi Terence
Sorry to ask… Is this the same group as for the Investing in US stocks on the 17th May at Oxford Hotel?
I also have a suggestion from someone in SHC on raising the capital and investing it in two properties in Thailand. This gentleman proposes that we get around forty SHCs to put up $5,000-10,000 each to raise $400,000 (a more achievable amount than 3 million). We need to arrange a co-operative or private company to manage the funds and buy the two properties. The condo units (non-Thais are not allowed to buy landed properties) would be leased to SHC members and rental collected could be distributed to shareholders. Shareholders would also be entitled to a week’s stay or free to sublet the week to others.
I think that this could be workable; maybe a project for the Business Group to explore and firm up the idea.
Thanks Kenneth,
The $3m is always a possibility. I was told I was just joking, and testing members’ reach when I set up this post for discussion. We received a few good responses on what we can do with a $3m fund, altho there is quiet on supporting the idea. I guess it shall remain a dream and a joke to think of SilverHairsClub members setting up a $3m fund. But the discussion revealed a number of members who can lead the fund, if we ever could raise the amount.
Kenneth, your bringing up a member’s suggestion to raise $400,000 as a fund to buy two foreign properties set the next level of discussion. From $3m to a new level, SilverHairsClub collectively pooled $400,000 to invest in foreign properties.
Let’s move this discussion. Members, what do you think? Everybody thinks if we can do better, say 5%, better than CPF returns, the investment is worth considering. But 5% is still not going to attract any person with money and the spare change. If we buy a satellite, we must be looking at 20, 30 or 40% returns over the short or medium term. Can a property give us such returns? Most of us may think, aiyah we will get 5-9% gross, based on rentals.
Let’s share your thoughts. Can we get 20, 30 or 40% returns on properties?
Terence Seah
Hi Terence
It’s good to be positive, but I still think SHCs are very Singaporean in attitudes and risk taking. I am very doubtful that we can raise the $400,000 to launch this property project.
I don’t mean that we are conservative, far from it… Singaporeans throw money at many property launches… even In Brazil and Batam! We gamble on stocks and Toto, fling care to the wind at casinos, stampede into the latest scam whether gold or land banking.
Why? I would venture several reasons:
They are kiasu and do not want to lose out on the large profits promised.
They have money to spare and do not know how best to invest it.
They are let down by poor returns on bank fixed deposits and unit trusts.
They believe that the pot of gold is within grasp at the end of the rainbow: just believe and follow what the promoters tout.
What I am saying is that we can get the forty SHCs but we must sell them the idea; even $3 million is achievable if there is the vision!
So Terence, coming down to earth, do you think that a 5% return is inadequate? I think the rental yield in Thailand is around 7%, and over the long term the capital gain should be in the double digits. A good enough story for our members?
Some one in SHC suggested to raise $400,000 to buy two properties for investment. I do not think it is so far- fetched. Just look at the way Singaporeans splurge money in Malaysia and Batam without realising the risks and the return on investment. A number of years ago I visited Batam and took a cruise around the housing estate built mainly for Singapore buyers. My guide told me these houses were unoccupied and all the fittings in the houses were stolen.
Also, there was a downpour, the whole town was flooded and many of the roads were not accessible.The investments were a total loss. Now many Singaporeans flock to JB to buy properties. Have they thought about the risks and returns.
In essence, to invest the $400,000 in properties, someone must know that market and the laws governing the purchases and sales, the rental market and
taxes. For example, in the past Britain does not impose capital gain tax. But in 2015 any sale will subject to this tax.
Hi Robert
You have made a relevant comment: The rule of law is so important especially if investing in a foreign country. We hear horror stories all the time…but Singaporeans still continue to put their money into whatever investment schemes are offered.
Yes, laws change and they would affect our investments: Britain’s capital gains tax, Malaysia’s minimum M$1 million for foreign-owned property, and even our Singapore TDSR or whatever…
These are some of the many risks we have to consider.
Hi Kenneth, Robert and members,
Not that we are leaving aside our $3m fund target, we are keeping the dream in mind.
Taking forward, we are now discussing the lower level of collectively raising $400,000 with the idea of buying maybe two properties. The aim is to generate returns, higher than our tradition returns. I am sure we all know many members talk about this idea, but it is difficult to singly do so. Collectively, maybe, and that’s why we have this discussion.
Can two x $200,000 properties go up in price to two x $400,000 in say, 3-5 years? It can be commercial or residential.
Personally, I like to discuss how this can be done, given our collective expertise, rather than why this cannot be done, the dangers of changing laws and our properties empties of its televisions and refrigerations.
Singaporeans are buying everywhere, from Batam, to Malaysia, Thailand, UK, the US, etc .. Are you just looking at a net 4% return?
Terence Seah
My previous comment in the post is not intended to cast a downcast spell to the
spirit of investing in properties. Perhaps my narration of a successful investment may mitigate the situation.
I know of a couple who bought two properties in London many years ago when their son enrolled in a UK university to study law.
Their choice of location and timing were just right.
Not only did they made capital gains, the rental income is also very lucrative. His trusted housing agent takes care of everything from collecting rents from tenants to the banking of proceeds and whenever the premises are vacated, he will arrange for new occupants.
Furthermore, today their son is a qualified lawyer and works in one of the largest
US fund management firm.
So it is not a matter of raising the $400,000 but rather how we can drum up the pitch of enticing the would-be investors.
Robert Ong
Haha Robert
Now you’re making the case for investing in property! I like your phrase “drum up the pitch of enticing the would-be investors”.
However, rather than selling “koyok”, I would like to suggest that the Business Networking group pick up this idea and put forward a proposal on this project.
I am certain that with the right backing and expertise we can get this venture off the ground.
Dear Terence,
Yes! We start raising the $400 000 now!
And go into action.
Time and tide wait for no man.
Cheers
Kristy
Hi Kristy
This post and comments have died a natural death…as is usual with most of the retirement living overseas, retirement village, long-term stays, etc. issues.
I am glad that we have a positive response from you though; are there any more? I had hoped that there would be more interest and that the Business Networking group would take it as one of their projects.
Anyway, let’s take the first step to express our interest.