Hi KT Wong, You have been very vivid, sharing your thoughts on investments with fellow SHCians. I read your latest comment today, in Jeffrrey’s Post, and I wont let the opportunity slip. Timing is right. You should share your thoughts with us. Cut it short, you gave 3 scenarios on where SHCians can go, with their monies.
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The US has bottomed up. Put your money against US$assets, US equities or local equities with high exposure to US markets. The US market has already been on the decline for a long time.
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The markets are still trending downwards. And, most people have debts, and values are very low. Keep selling.
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Don’t do anything. Sit on your money, and wait for the tides to change.
I have a timeslot next Thurs, 24 Jan, when I am back from overseas. Judging from the recent gathering at Hans Cafe, the time will be 6.30 pm, and you can start at 7.00pm. Over the next few days, I shall look for a venue, preferably with a overhead project and screen. Suggestions for venue welcome.
Can you be speaker and moderator? On this forum, I see other active an dlike-minded participants – Kenneth Tan, Dennis Har, Tim Liu and Jeffrey Lim. Can you come and share your ideas too? The topic can be "Markets are down. What are the options?".
Meantime, if SilverHairs like to come, please register your interest here. Strictly for SHC members only. No entrance fee, just buy your F&B at the counter.
Terence Seah
Yes, Terence, I will be attending.
Thanks n regards…..John
John,
Good to see you the first to raise hand.
I am gauging this event to determine interest on this topic.
See u there.
Terence
Hi Terence
I’ll be just back from a short trip from Malaysia and will try to make the session.
Next week Thursday is too short notice for me to make any useful contribution. Besides, I don’t have a specific strategy to deal with the current situation.
If KT, Dennis Har, Jeff and Tim are able to give their take on your topic then I may be able to contribute my two cents (maybe 2 minutes) worth.
Dear Terence
I can contribute on “Knowing and Understanding Key Fundamentals in Investing in times like now”.
However, it has to be held during the week of 28 Jan and before 1 Feb. I am travelling next week, from 22 Jan to 26 Jan and from 31 Jan 2008 to 3 Feb on financial management assignments.
Cheers, Andrew
Hi Andrew, I take note of your offer, although I would keep to Thur 24 Jan.
Everybody, meantime, if you cannot make 24 Jan, and are interested in another date Mon 28 Jan, please also put your name here.
Terence Seah
Terence
I am registering my interest in attending the discussion on Jan 24. Which Han’s cafe are we meeting at?
Cheers,
Vincent Wong
Hi Vincent,
Good to have your participation. I shall advise venue tomorrow. Unlikely Hans, as it does not have project and screen.
Terence
Dear Terence
Take you pick.
I would oblige to share what little I know after my trips this month.
: )) Andrew
Terence do you want me to reserve 2 time slot for you at Scorebot.
Slot 1: Thu, 24Jan 2008 7pm onward
Slot 2: Mon, 28Jan 2008 7pm onward
DennisH
Looks like the 24 th has it.
OK, let’s have it at Scorebot at 7 pm. They have screens, computers and projectors etc. I’ll finalize the speakers and get it organized.
Don’t worry Andrew. You can join us by video conferencing this time.
It’ll be fun. How to go up the down elevator.
Ken @ # 3
A $20 to 30 billion bet is worth 2 cents of advise !
Don’t be like that, lah. At least give some face. Otherwise, how to win the “Most Something of the Year” award.
Even if we lose, we must be seen to lose graciously especially if we are losing other people’s money and still get to keep our job.
Ken @ #3
Thanks for your offer to help. You can really help to complement our “Up the down ladder” strategy.
Seriously, appreciate if you can talk about equity options and warrants. Here’s what you can cover
Options with emphasis on Insurance Strategies
Floors: long stock + long put
Caps: short stock + long call
Touch on Selling insurance, Covered writing, option overwriting, selling a covered call
Naked writing.
You have two mins. Hee-hee.
KT
As I said, I cannot be the main speaker and give a complete presentation. I will only propose that I share something about using the US market for investing.
Many of us SHCs (especially the retired ones) cannot afford to trade (day trade), watch prices constantly, in short, be active traders.
What we’d appreciate is some advice as to what to do with the bank deposits, fixed deposits, unit trusts, REITs and local stocks that we’d accumulated over the years.
How do we combat rising inflation, medical and hospitalisation costs?
Ways to save money on insurance: whether fire, car or life.
These, I feel, would be more relevant topics then trying to get someone who’s new to investing to use options or warrants, trade forex, or invest in properties whether local or overseas.
Again, my two cents worth!
Ken @ #13
Very good points.
I will use it as a FAQ for the next discusion. We’ll run down your wish list and discuss each area of concern.
I can promise answers but perphaps not quite the ones many wish to hear.
Anyway, let’s talk about it then. We share viewpoints and hopefully come up with an action agenda to help us survive the folly of the age.
Hi Dennis,
The crowd is likely not to require a place like Hans. It has no PC and screens.
Thank you for the suggestion. Plse go ahead and book Scorebot for this event on the coming Thurs evening.
Terence Seah
Terence dear, in the kangaroo court of a banana republic, you hv the police, prosecutor, jury & judge wrapped in one.
Surely, you cant ask KT to speak and then to moderate on what he has said……….hahaha, wdnt he hv thot it thru carefully?
I think this may be the mother of many more serious discussions to come.
I am in, not as a speaker, but maybe to help moderate or field questions if you like.
Tim, nice of you to help handle some of the questions.
My question in advance: I am 52, and I shall reach 55 in a few years. With the view that the US is in a recession, and all markets look gloomy, what your advice on my cpf money? At current CPF’s rates, the interest earned do not look attractive. What can I do, assuming the US will remain gloomy for the next 2-3 years.
I am not thinking of horses or 4D. Neither ostrich nor retirement homes.
Terence Seah
I have the some questions in mind
It will be good that I can hear some suggestions sooner possible.
Magdalene Yap
“My question in advance: I am 52, and I shall reach 55 in a few years. With the view that the US is in a recession, and all markets look gloomy, what your advice on my cpf money? At current CPF’s rates, the interest earned do not look attractive. What can I do, assuming the US will remain gloomy for the next 2-3 years.”
Answer (1) : You’ll reach 55 in 3 years, calculated thus 55-52 = 3.
Answer (2) : Invest yr cpf $ if you wish to see more $.
Right now, however, there’re too few approved investment options which invariably take a big slice off as fees/commissions with outhing near to a guarantee of profit.
In 3 years’ time and after you hv survived tsunamis, bird flu, mad cow disease & women’s crushes for you to live to 55, and think that you’re now free to use yr cpf $ to breed horses in a 4-Dimensional ostrich farm, the withdrawal age is pushed back bcos you hv made planes to work till 85 so sensibly, cpf withdrawal has to be delayed for your own good.
Seriously, it depends on how much you have.
If you hv millions, be like the big boys. Play it big but always play it yrself. Even a 1.5% return for $1mio is $15k, enough to buy you another pair of danzing shoes, inflation accounted for. Cut out the middlemen, the brokers.
But if you dont hv much in capital, frankly, I can only hope for you that the General Election will come every year so that there can be progress packages, rebates, bananas, papayas handed out.
Dear Terrence,
Subject: What are the investments option available for Silver hairs when US economy bottom!
Very interesting subject, I’m glad we, SHC is also monitoring it and looking for opportunity.
keep it up, Terrence, all the way!..ha..ha.
ST Wed, DD: 16th Jan 2008
GIC, Singapore investing arm, has also find opportunity and invested about US$300illions, (S$429.9 millions) with a US Property hedge fund company, Rosen Rea;l Estate Securities to invest in US Real Estate.
Even the Singapore has also take that action, thta show we’re not left in the darK as well.
If slot is available, (30 to 45 mins) I had some important statics informations to share with regard to the above.
I’ve also secure a room, (Max 20 to 25 peoples) in my company this Friday, DD: 25th Jan 2008 from 6.00 to 10.00pm.
(Thursday, DD: 24th Jan 2008, rooms fully taken up – sorry)
Place: One Fullerton Building, #02-01, Walton International group (s) Pte Ltd, next to the Merlion Statue, at the mouth of Singapore River.
Refreshment: Coffee or tea with Sandwitches at $3.00 per head.
Car park: Per entry from 6.00 to 11.55 at S$5.00
Appreciate if I can have confirmation by Thursday, DD: 24th Jan 2008 before noon.
Regards
Gibson Tan
Team Manager
Hp: (65) 90271398
Walton International group (s) Pte Ltd
Dear Terrence,
Subject: What are the investments option available for Silver hairs when US economy bottom!
Very interesting subject, I’m glad we, SHC is also monitoring it and looking for opportunity.
keep it up, Terrence, all the way!..ha..ha.
ST Wed, DD: 16th Jan 2008
GIC, Singapore investing arm, has also find opportunity and invested about US$300illions, (S$429.9 millions) with a US Property hedge fund company, Rosen Rea;l Estate Securities to invest in US Real Estate.
Even the Singapore has also take that action, thta show we’re not left in the darK as well.
If slot is available, (30 to 45 mins) I had some important statics informations to share with regard to the above.
I’ve also secure a room, (Max 20 to 25 peoples) in my company this Friday, DD: 25th Jan 2008 from 6.00 to 10.00pm.
(Thursday, DD: 24th Jan 2008, rooms fully taken up – sorry)
Place: One Fullerton Building, #02-01, Walton International group (s) Pte Ltd, next to the Merlion Statue, at the mouth of Singapore River.
Refreshment: Coffee or tea with Sandwitches at $3.00 per head.
Car park: Per entry from 6.00 to 11.55 at S$5.00
Appreciate if I can have confirmation by Thursday, DD: 24th Jan 2008 before noon.
Regards
Gibson Tan
Team Manager
Hp: (65) 90271398
Walton International group (s) Pte Ltd
Kenneth #13…like your 2cts worth … ooops, guys, dun hum tum me okie.
Many times u guys talk so ‘chim’ I meant investments ‘catch no ball’! ‘cos I only ‘half tub water’ so, far made some sound investments but not trading still at the fringe ….if someone cld make it simple if not simpler… TQVM
Place juz a stone throw from work place and time perfect…I’ll be there!
Hi KT Wong, and everybody else,
Christina Chan just make a very valid point. You guys are too chim. If I can take this opportunity, make the discussion simple.
Keep all the difficult questions to the end of the session. This is our first such session, and we hope to attract more SHCians to see the opportunities, and also the dangers ahead.
Make it simple, can?
Terence Seah
Dear Terence,,, TQ for your support… pls remember ChristinaCL Chan…
Hi Gibson,
Glad to hear from you. Due to inadequate time, I have fixed the venue and date.
Let us see how this session goes on, what is the participation like and the degree of interest. Would be please to use your place in future, depending on subject matter.
Will you be coming this Thurs?
Terence Seah
Hi Terence,
I agree with Kenneth and Christina’s sentiments …everything seems to be flying over the head.
Would like to join the meeting at Gibson’s Fullerton building. Count me in.
Hopefully Kenneth’s questions are addressed which is pertaining to our Silverhaired situation.
See you all then.
Tks & rgds………….Jie
Gibson @ #21,
If we know for sure that it is really the bottom then it is a no brainer. We can clean up the market as simple as we clean our bottom. How to clean bottom? We’ll take two seconds on Thurs to explain with a volunteer from the audience.
If we can pinch the bottom accurately then you can buy anything and still make money. You typically buy the most volatile, short term and worst hit financial instruments. Longer term assets like properties usually lag the volatiles. No problem. You just invest the money you make in the short term back into the long term. It’ll be cavair and champagne all the way up.
Alas, if only life can be like that. The problem is we don’t really know where the bottom is. The tops and bottoms are always particularly treacherous and volatile. The trick is to survive and make money even if the market continues falling to a seemingly bottomless pit.
Chris @ #22
Don’t be like that-lah.
I am selecting from my wardrobe the best singlet and shorts combination for the occasion. I am also hard at practising my PCK singlish jokes.
Seriously, we have given a lot of thought on how to communicate simple ideas simply. If it gets any simpler, you’ll have to kill to make the money.
Chris, Terence isnt all alone to support you. My support for you isnt lip service, is real and is tangible.
Let me carry you in my arms to the betting shop in thge heartland nearest to yr heart when it opens 2mrow.
Simple, just mark 4 numbers……..pencil & paper are provided. Trust me it’s fun and takes little fund to make big fund.
KT, to paraphrase you, this is what you said “…….. as simple as we clean our bottom. We’ll take two seconds on Thurs to explain with a volunteer from the audience. ….we can pinch the bottom accurately. The problem is we don’t really know where the bottom is….”
Like that, you think you still can find a volunterr fr the audience? In that 2 seconds, yr pinch can kill her……..
Hi Gibson,
I do have a similar posting under “Business, Investment and Speculation” thread on Land Banking also by Walton this Wed, 23 January 2008 7:30pm
Looks like its the same topic.
The password to this thread is “dennis” to open the thread.
The first time you key in the password will bring you back to the main forum page and then going back to the thread again will see all comments posted or just clik the green “click here” to see events details.
Gibson you are welcome to use our place as another alternative for any future presentations.
DennisH
Yes, yes Gibson do pls pls make sure you type in the correct password, esp the first 3 letters which are D_e_n.
Cannot be lazy hor, any shorter form like “P_e” will take you to a bad site of backsides…..
Embark on yr adventure.
#28 Dear KT… U know I dun mean watever u meant & I know u dun mean watever ;) :D
Surveys had shown that many Sporeans in terms of investing are not as knowledgeable nor savvy. I have picked up some here & there but have lost track due no time to read up nor folw up. So want the lazy way out… learn from u guys lor.
How about some classes(afternns/evenings) on “Investment for Novice” “How to get started..” call it whatever u want but start with simple basics; at a nominal/token fee esp for SHC members, we, the less savvy truly need some guidance… can?
There are several savvy ones amongst us, perhaps they can come fwd too, to help…
oops I see ‘cannon balls’ coming my way… ouch! ouch!
#29 Dear TimL, TQ for your supt as well as help, your sincere thoughts are appreciated ;)
Chris, we grew up together & will grow old together, yeah ?
To my mind, this talk is aimed at the learned helping learning SHCians to understand basic concepts of & types of investment, the terms & terminology, jargons, and sharing of experiences like when the get in/get out, and how to develop this strength to become callous, unemotional and not hanging on to yr stocks when there’s money made or when you need to cut loss.
The knack and the nose to sniff out a good investment, discipline and how not to be greedy cant be taught. It’s an acumen, generally innate, inborn, a personality but, maybe for some, can be developed over time.
From what I can see, KT, Andrew, DennisH, Terence…………are well qualified to impart and share so the doubting thomases & janes, if you can make time, do pls attend. I dont think it’ll be like the talk shops we sometimes hv which, however, did serve the purpose of facilitating easy interaction.
All SHCIC members
Next SHCIC meeting is confirmed as follows
Topic: “Markets are down. What are the options?”
Date: Thu 24 Jan 2008
Time: 7 pm
Venue: Scorebot, 18 Bali Lane (near to Bugis MRT)
Map: http://www.streetdirectory.com/asia_travel/travel/travel_id_4479/travel_site_14813/
Dear Tim
I am travelling to China after midnight, back Saturday morning. So might not able to join Thurs evening at Scorebot.
I can share what little I know and understand on key fundamentals next Monday, 28 Jan evening at Scorebot before my trip to Jakarta middle of next week.
Can repeat my talk of last Saturday(19 Jan) for OTCS at our National Library
Cheers, Andrew
Tim @ #34
What Tim says is correct. We will try to cover Investment 101.
To get the more mileage out of the session, you can bring up some investment or trading ideas for analysis. Financial skills is gained less through theoretical training and more by shared learning.
Successful traders have a bad habit. They tend to trade what has worked for them in the past. This is partly because there are so many new products in the market and not enough time to cover new things. This makes them rather resistant to change.
Newbies are just the opposite. They are like children in a candy shop. They want to try everything especially if its new. Putting newbies and experienced folks together means that tried and tested gets into running with the hippie. The best ideas will come out of the melting pot.
It is a win-win situation for both.
Dear KT
There are five types of money managers: consumers, savers, speculators, traders and investors.
Each group has its distinct attributes at 101, 201 and 301.
Hi investment gurus, I would like to attend this if I can take leave this Thu afternoon.
Joy
Hi,
I would like to attend this Thursday’s meeting.
See you !
Cecilia Lim
I am giving this session a shot…….Jie
Hi KT,
I see we have a good number of responses to this gathering. Can you give us an agenda, so that we know what to expect during the evening.
We are looking forward to hear and discuss the different viewpoints and options, especially when world markets are nervous and unsure.
Terence Seah
Terence, I think KT has given an indication (in #35 & 37) of what the sharing will consist altho no harm if he puts up an agenda.
I believe it will be a session where the being-there will take the audience thru their various inbvestnent trails, highlighting the pitfalls along the way, and how they managed to turn adversity to prosperity..
It’ll be nice if Andrew K cd make time to share his thots.
Joy, why did you take leave when the talk only starts after 7 p.m.? Kiasu, kiasi or just go there early to kia kia?
Tim, if I don’t take leave, by the time I reach there, everyone would be in bed at home. And you would be enjoying the first of your 20 nights warming someone’s golden pillow somewhere.
Hi,
Count me in for this session. Will try my best to follow the presentation..
Dear Tim @#43
I will try to lock in after business dinner tomorrow, perhaps after 8:30pm and share 2-cent knowledge.
Can I use this thread/email from Weifang, Sha ntong?
Cheers, Andrew
Hi Terence,
I find this thread is so serious that I fear to tread ;) Everyone seems to be talking about this bottoms up, that bottoms out, nervy world markets, etc., etc. Where do I park my money other than the bank vault? Why keep money when money is losing its value… Invest in gold? Buy property?
Guess it’s about time I come hear and learn something from the investment experts. Will join you money-making people tomorrow evening at Hans. Please count me in.
Dear Andrew,
So you’re presently out of town, thought you’ll be taking a midnite flight from spore 2nite.
I dont know anythg abt computer; less with computer link-up but do believe that if that’s possible and without fuss, folks will probably do that.
Well, we miss you but there’ll surely be another time.
Be good cos you’re in Shandong….heard of the Shandong Siang Mah (the Shandong sounding horse i.e. the bandits ?)
Dear Tim
Yes, meeting with several sr mgt of a listed Grp in China.
Flying home tomorrow afternoon, back in Singapore on Saturday morning.
See you on Monday, 28 January evening at Scorebot before my next trip around middle of the week to Jkt.
Orkie dorkie…………………….
Last evening, Tim, DennisH, Peng2, Christina, Jie, Lina, Kenneth, JohnH, Gibson, Terence, KT, Wee Chin, Andrew Yeun, Roland and Gingko attended the investment event. KT Wong led the evening’s event, covering “Protecting one’s investments”
Based on feedback on the equities, 8 see the markets as trending downwards while 6 see sideway movements within the forseeable future. Nobody saw the the markets as going on the upward trend.
Most participants prefer discussions on equities discussion, while a couple find some interests in forex.
It was difficult to find common ground products and interests, although most participants find interests in topics on how SilverHairs can better improve their savings and stock holdings.
Gibson gave a presentation on the US property market, whle Tim gave minimal insight into football, toto and 4D bets.
It was a fun evening, finishing at 10pm. 8 people landed up at the nearby roti-prata stall.
If you have suggestions on how to organise this event in the future, do scream and yell yet.
Terence Seah
Terence, you comment#51, is the Andrew Yeun means me or other Andrew? I have not attend the investment event last evening.
Hi Andrew,
Yes, this is another Andrew, last name without the ‘g’.
You should catch up with him another day.
Terence Seah
Just a quick follow up on our recent investment meeting:
First: A big thank you to KT Wong for his enlightening presentation on using CFDs to hedge our stock positions.
Second: To ScoreBot and it’s management for the use of the place: a great place with great atmosphere for “trading news”!
I think we can do more to promote the use of CFDs especially as a tool to hedge our stock holdings. We should have an intro to CFDs and maybe KT could take us thru his spreadsheet program (and give us a copy).
I also realize that there are many views and investment objectives among our SHC members; time frames and investment amounts, and risk levels in the various investment vehicles. So, there may not be a “one-size fits all” kind of solution.
Till our mext meeting!
Kenneth
Hi KT, Dennis,
Can we ask you to organise these sessions on a monthly basis. Please advise the dates and times. Based on last evening’s event, I think the ScoreBot venue is suitable, with PC linked to a large size screen/TV.
As SHC, I would request you give special concessions, when SHCians meet at the ScoreBot venue. There are also requests for discounts for courses, and I would ask you consider that too. Please also consider other types of investments talks eg property, annunities, etc.
Kenneth has a point which I would agree, and that is there is no “one-size fits all” kind of solution.
No advertisement on this forum allowed. If needs be, please use 2GreenDots.com.
Terence Seah
I too would like to join Kenneth in thanking everybody & everyone for making the nite a success, save a blip.
I cdnt sleep last nite, excited with the prospect of sinking only USD500 for a 200% yield per mth.
Doubling that up, over 12 mths, I’ll get USD512k…………in 3 years’ time. I too can save ubs, citi, merrill lynch, not one but all 3 together………
Heeeeee, knn, you pap (Pien-Ah-Pek), huh?
Terence @ #51 wrote “Last evening, Tim, DennisH, Peng2, Christina, Jie, Lina, Kenneth, JohnH, Gibson, Terence, KT, Wee Chin, Andrew Yeun, Roland and Gingko attended the investment event……a couple find some interests in forex”.
Huh, got couple meh? If there was. they were really discreet…….
(Btw, my charity to spore last nite was $230.00, every cent of it).
Tim @ #57
I enjoyed it as much as everybody. You have been a great audience.
Some people may be disappointed. They may be just hoping that we provide a shopping list of tips. But two persons acting on the same tip at the same time may still have widely different outcomes depending on how each manage their own trades. Without risk management, there is no control or methodology to wealth creation. What you have is not an investment trade. It is a gamble.
If that’s all you are prepared to do then Tim has a valid point. A financial trade is not a good gamble. Their probability payout rate is less attractive than other gambles including casino games and sports book. Choose a gamble and learn to play it like a professional with a system.
This doesn’t make gamble less than investment. Just be as good as you can be in whatever you do.
Seriously, will Tim give us a talk on this fascinating subject. Few will admit it. But most people’s approach to risk is gambling. Eveything has a system including gambling. And some systems is better than others. I would really like to hear what Tim has to say about good winning systems.
Terence…Fyi, I managed to pop-in after work to listen in as one of the attendees. Apologies had to rush off after presentation as had to work the next day.
Tim…(I was seated next to you, the late-comer) I also have a flutter on 4D, Toto etc. Also once in awhile on soccer punting, so will be very keen to attend if you have a seminar on “Alternative Investments” ;-)
KT/Dennis…I am interested in the FX autobot. I think that USD500 is really a reasonable sum to find out if the automated trading really works. Even if it returns 30-50% a year, it definitely beats the local bank interest rates & inflation. So I will definitely be keen if you have a seminar on FX autobot trading. Thanks for conducting the seminar.
Jon Ong
Thanks for answer Terence.
Surely, Jonathan, you hv a surname that’s spelt in a very unusual manner “ONg”.
We do hv a Gee here – and she won the Most Popular Award at our recent Talentime. No surprise if 1 day you’re ON (a date with) G to sip tea eat chilli and, looking at each other, start to heee heee heee…….
” Tim…(I was seated next to you, the late-comer)”
Very the aslamak lah……..you late comer not tim hor, tim had 20 cups of tea ($1.50, free flow, dai tho lang lor) by the time you came.
Jokes over, ok, serious.
The “Alternative Investments”, as you put it, are highly risky. You cant study for that, you cant use a computer to run out what the golden numbers arein 4-D, Toto, for example.
Lately, we saw 3565, 3476 landing the first prizes within days. My butty Chew was inspired by the first to hit 3476 big.
Supporting spore charity as a professional is very special, and you need the knack, the geel, the hunch otherwise after a moth or support, charity supports you.
Frankly, it’s just too risky and I wont encourage anyone to do. If you remember NKF
KT @ 58, last hurrah b4 I go fetch my kiddo………”Support Charity is MAS lah……..mana ada system”
Tim @ #61
You know, I know. But they don’t.
Just put drama into ignorance. The more ridiculous the better. Eg get your bird to pick up numbers. Or count the number of moles on customers face.
There are no rules in flea. They can’t nail you. Just plead “if I can really pick winners I won’t be selling numbers here!”
Tim #61
No, lah…am not suggesting one puts whole portfolio on Alternative Investments…just to have a ‘flutter’ on such things ;-)
count me in if you have a ‘Sportsbook’ seminar which i believe you have a niche ! (as KT kept emphasizing)
p.s. surname shd be spelt Ong, dunno how it turned out ONg…can Terence help to rectify
Jon @ #64
Keep up the pressure.
Good things don’t come easy. Easy things don’t come good.
I been burning Tim’s behind on sportsbook for a long time. All the way back when the first booty car sales was mooted. We were suppose to meet after booty at the betting shop for Tim to show us the ball.
He has been as elusive and reluctant as a virgin bride. So we must believe on balance he really have the book eating out of his hand.
Nag on. Every man have their breaking point.
Tim @ #62
Mistakes Always Serious
Money Aided Sex
Money Aggravated Syndrome ….
Dear all
Just back from trip, are we still on for tomorrow evening at Scorebot?
Cheers,
Hi Andrew,
I dont think there is an organised group today. Some members may have noted your suggestion for today, although I am not sure.
Terence Seah
Dear Terence
Am following up with my last week’s note that I can join in the discussion this evening because I was travelling last week.
Have a sms-enquiry this morning from two persons that they are coming to Scorebot ….. I would oblige if there are interests.
Please confirm before 2pm today whether it is on or not. Thanks.
Hi Andrew,
Am not sure who they are, but please follow through with the callers.
Won’t be in today. Catch up another time.
Terence
Hi Terence
Thanks.
If there are interests for deeper discussion and sharing, then can organise a session in February.
Cheers, Andrew
Dear Andrew, as there’s no firm agenda, I’d be spending my time with my kiddo tonite as she seems to be getting unsolicited attention and the daddy me will hv to interview each & every 1 of them.
Hope to meet you & all at Scorebot soon………that’s quite a good place to relac……………
Dear Tim
You are quite wise to spend/invest some quality moments with an invaluable and non-replaceable asset and treasure.
My eldest child called me when I was in Shandong that she passed her CFA exams. I was awaiting to meet the Chairman and Party Secy in the early morning.
You might not able to imagine the exuberance and joy I have for my daughter. Treasure…..every precious moment of LOVE.
Dear Terence, KT and all,
Thank you for the opportunity to share my two cents worth of US economy and how they overcome seven recession and emerge stronger.
There are so many good discussions & questions arrives ranging from KT’s sharing about CFD.
One of the under score questions for most of us is how can I make money and not let its value erode away with inflation,(The Singapore inflation focus is slated to move up from 4.2% to 5.5% by year end, to generous good or better returns, without getting too involve for too much technical information is being shared, sleep well with their hard earn money!
We’ve to be true to our self, KT may be an expert with his years of experience in stock trading, He can only share with us and teaching us to hand on ourself, although after the session, I can see him as level as Warren Buffet, the guru of USA.
First of all, A big thank you for Terence, KT & his team, (Dennis & Tim), of organizer and of course Scorebot’s place.
Good News!
I’m invited to a seminar this Friday. DD: 1st Feb 2008 at Le’Meridian Hotel, Orchard road, 3rd Level, Ballroom at 6.45pm for a talk.
Title: “MARKET ARE DOWN, ONE OF THE OPTION TO MAKE MONEY IS”
Since seats are limited and is only by invitation on a first come fist basis, I’ll like to open this invitation to my fellow SHC members as well, (irregardless whether you attended on last Thursday, and those who misses, as long as this interest you.
Come and hear it out your self. (I’m also open it out to your friends who you think this may interest them, keep this within SHC)
Note: I’m assured also that there is no obligation to participate in their programmed if we find that it did not meets our styles, we can walk out of the seminar after it is done.
Give me call, I need your name and contact no, so when you’re there, look out for me or tell the receptionist you’re register under my name, GIBSON TAN.
Hope this two cents worth helps!
Regards
Gibson Tan, (Hp: 65 90271398)
Gibson, I am happy for you that you have been invited to a talk (“Good News! I’m invited to a seminar this Friday 1st Feb 2008 at Le’Meridian Hotel”).
However, I am bemused with your “Since seats are limited and is only by invitation on a first come fist basis, I’ll like to open this invitation to my fellow SHC members as well, (irregardless ….”.
First, if you yrself are invited to speak, it seldom is the case that the invited speaker is at liberty to invite.
Second, if guests/the audience are “by invitation” then how could it be a case of “first come first served”? You dont over-invite and make the guests stand thru the talk?
Last but not least, the combination of letters “irregardless’ is non-Englsih.
In passing, you hv also sounded an assurance that “there is no obligation to participate in their programmed if we find that it did not meets our styles, we can walk out of the seminar after it is done”.
Is this assuarnce necessary if it’s not another hard-sell but a good substantive talk, with facts & figures substantiating claims?
Wahtever, I wish you well and do put up a good show.
Hi Tim,
Thank you for your feed back, I’m still learning and writing..ha.ha.
No! I’m not invited to speak, only to listen and find out opportunity & benefits like many others.
As mention by organizer, their seats are limited to about 100 to 150 pax, and its on a first register basis, and they allow me to bring my friends, in the case,(since we met last week in KT’s sharing session, find it appropriate to invite you all, my fellow SHC mbrs, ideas of finding teh right investment still fresh in our mind.
“Irregardless” Yes! you’re correct, wrong used of word, I take it back and erase it.
No obligtaion – With the wide advertising reports and experience of TIME SHARE in our local news paper, Many Singaporean are sceptic about attending such talks and sharing, (Maybe not you, but for others need it) thus I forward this question and there you’re – the answered.
So much comments and no action, don’t be NATO.. Can I registered for you!!..
Regards
Gibson Tan
HP: 90271398
Tim @ #75 and Gibson @ # 76
A clash of literary minds. Gibson’s classic mind twister:
“Irregardless” Yes! you’re correct, wrong used of word, I take it back and erase it.
Having taken one back, do you still owe us one – “Irregardless” or “used” as used in this context.
Tim @ #75 and Gibson @ # 76 – part 2
Now we Shake the Spear back on investment options.
Tim – Please keep an open mind. We must weigh all the facts that make up an educated market view before we take action or venture an opinion. At least, until we know what is served by whom. A full course complementary ala carte from Michelin 5 star Michelin chef flown in specially by Le Meridian for this occassion is an example of such a fact.
Gibson – I assume the talk is on landbanking. Seriously, I think that every investment have merits or can be repackaged to make it viable. Don’t tease the audience and create a mystery out of nothing. You can fool them once and they’ll never come back. Be straightforward and cut to the chase.
Alternatively, organize a working group to objectively analyse the option you have in mind and compare it fairly to other options available.
Give it your best shot and send in your blazing guns to make your case. Such a forum can have audience participation too. But submit the results or proceedings to the lay audience like SHC. Let them be the final judge of whether the instrument can be made to work for them.
I can volunteer if you feel up to it. (Pssssst, I don’t have the high and uncompromising moral standings of Tim. Even 3 star, I may be prepared to take it all back.)
Hee hee
PS Seriously, I think there are merits but not the way it is currently put together or presented. Every deal deserves a fair hearing. Contact me if you want to see whether it can really be an important part of one’s retirement financing arsenal.
Hi KT,
Thanks for your feed back.
I’m 100% concur with your statement that every investments has its merit.
That is why I did mention in the title, One of the option…
There are ground rule in this forum and certain wordings are not permit to use here unlike othes like forex or stock, CFD, etc trading is acceptable.
Like you, I will like the group to see for them self rather than making decision for them, the only way is to provide the opportunity to all if not most investment opportunity, with that, they can make better their own decision ultimately as whether ot get involve or not.
Although we’al have have cross the half way mark, not all are able to make good sound decision especially investment for it is not every bodies cup of tea, (Refering to stock, forext, cfd where it is you bread and butter for years).
The best as mention abovem make every investment opportunity available or accessible for every HSC members to hear it out themself squarely, that is what I had in mind..
Organise working group on various option – I love that! And I suppose there are others as well.
I’m open to it, why don’t you start that, I’m in. Let’s do it after the Lunar New Year,
As for timing to meet, Every Wednesday and last Tuesday of every month is no good for me.
I got alot to learn from you’al, being the youngest, and with due full respect to you, Tim, Andrew, Dennis etc,
Area if concerns, as this is a forum, I hope we give due respect to all views regardless whether it make sense or not, and if in doubt, ask for clarafication.
Gibson Tan
Hp: 965) 90271398
Full extract of the maligned paragraph in #74 says “Good News! I’m invited to a seminar this Friday. DD: 1st Feb 2008 at Le’Meridian Hotel, Orchard road, 3rd Level, Ballroom at 6.45pm for a talk.”
In short, it’s “I’m invited to a seminar for a talk.”.
Literal interpretation is, that someone is invited to a seminar to give a talk otherwise what is to make out of the words “for a talk” if it’s already a seminar?
Clarification has been made and I’ll accept what the position really is.
KT @#78, why the hehehawhaw & the lolilosor abt me closing my mind when my earlier comments @#75 essentially examined what the invitation was supposed to be, and how it cd have been made clearer & less intimidating.
Scrolling further up this thread, I note that I hv been coaxed, urged, nudged even nagged to give a talk of so-called “Alternative Investment”. Let me take you back to last Sunday when Man City played Shff Utd in a FA cup match.
MC is in the premier division. SU is one division lower. Btwn them are 30 other teams. I classroom parlance, if MC is 1st, SU is 31st.
It was a no brainer that MC wont flatten SU but……….
Who wd hv expected that MC’s supporters released a sea of balloons on the field? Who wd hv expected that ref Wily didnt stop play & asked that the balloons be cleared? Who wd hv expected that when a SU player kicked the ball, it hit the ballooos, fooling the MC goalie and bounce into goal, and to be repeated b4 SU took a comfortable 2-0 lead at half-time?
Sure, in my talk, I can analyse form, attitude….but I cant talk abt a lunacy like balloonacy which is not even in the wildest of my imagination.
Hi Attorney Tim,
You are sure more structured, logical and fantastic in reasoning.
Fellow TM Gibson, stick to 3 core parts (cp)for a central theme. Each cp with 3 key pointers, you will get your points across very well.
This way, you will cover sufficient substance, with depth and breadth, yet focus, meaningful and poise.
Hope above helps.
Cheers, Andrew
Hi Members
I have missed you all as I have just seen your comments above. Can anyone answer me as follows:
1. What options can we invest if US goes into recession with US Dollars falling lower?
2. Where is the bottom and high for the stock market in this volatile situation ?
3. Which direction will the stock market go – up or down ?
4. Tim Liu@56 can you tell me how did you make USD512K over 12 months in 3 years ? What is your capital ?
5. KT you can inform me on your next autotrading.
I would appreciate feedback on the above.
Thank you.
Cheers !
Sophia Lim
http://specialasianfood.com
visionp@singnet.com.sg
62536642
Dear Sophia
Depending what kind of money managers you are, your scope and capacity…..time frame.
The fundamentals and basics in investing prevail in the most/current circumstances…..financial history repeats itself.
Which asset class do you understand and have deep knowledge best?
Cheers, Andrew
Haha, AndrewK, I talk straight, sometimes not to everyone’s liking but loath me love me, that’s me.
However, I wasnt doing a one-up over anyone, and I do trust that whoever talks at the seminar will hv the audience’s benefit uppermost in mind other than to sell a product, which is fair as time & money will be spent to organise it.
(I only wanted to share with Gibson that a shorter, straight-to-the-point intro will be more catchy).
Sophia, my take is as follows :
1. If US goes into a recession (and it depresses me more if it goes into a depression), the brave will take advantage of a falling US$ to start picking up US assets on the cheap : realty, durables and even bank shares (yes, citi, merill lynch). However, the mentality is, if prices fall, people shun ^ stay away; when prices keep rising, people keep chasing to help inflate the bubble.
2. Nobody knows. Respected gurus like buffett, soros will probably wait-n-see, and do (1) when they think the time is ripe…….they wont hit the gong to alert.
3. Down. We actually talked abt the STI at the 24th scorebot gathering, and the prevailing mood was pessimistic but sobering : down (STI closed at 3050 that day).
4. No, the US$512k was an illustration used by a speaker at the 24th gathering. It was assumed that with an initial US$500 outlay, gaining strength @ 200% monthly, it shd reach US$512k in 12 mths, calculated thus : 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000, 16k, 32k, 64k, 128k, 256k, 512k.
tim
Hi Tim
Agreed with your attorney’s observations on talk(s).
Need to be straight to the point and clear, then goes around the mulberry bushes.
Three parts for a central theme …. with three core points for each section…..to benefit audience….. as a basic mutual respect.
Cheers, Andrew
Hi Andrew,
#81 Thanks, TM Andrew
Will keep that in mind.
Your suggestion to Sophia is well said..
Can I dot a seat and join me for tomorrow’s evening at Le’Meridian hotel at 6.45pm, 3rd level Ballroom?
Maybe can include Sophia as well? What your views?
Gibson Tan
Hp: 90271398
Hi Gibson
Thanks for the invite.
Am not in foreign land banking. I have three work passions : Financial Management, Corporate Governance and Investing
Tomorrow have three tasks to do prior to my work travel to Jkt on Sunday pm.
Cheers, Andrew
Hi Andrew,
Thank..
Financial Management, Corporate Governance and investing – please elaborate further..in details
Have a safe trip, hope to see you in Singapore for the Lunar New Year.
And if you consider to get something for your new year back home – try the Kuek Lapis from Jakarta – very famous & good.
Gibson
Dear Gibson
Separately in pte email in details. Otherwise, advertising.
For a short on Financial Management : a) Financial Operations Systems, b)Management Accounting, c)Corporate Finance and d)Group Consolidation and Reporting.
Corporate Governance and Investing are self explanatory
JTC and Town Councils gave me the best opportunities/experience to manage billions of assets, sizeable head-counts and scopes.
:)) Andrew
Sophia @ #17 and Tim @ #9
Many people have asked me “how much can you make with forex algo trading”. I find it very difficult to answer this question without people thinking that I am either fraud or a nut case. So I lied. I pull a moderate number from the air which sounds believable. And they still think I am the one that flew over the cuckoo’s nest.
So what I will do here is to publish the results of the recent World Automated Trading Championship 2007.
The competition on Euros ran for 3 months from 1st of October 2007 and finishes on the 21st of December 2007. The initial “virtual deposit” is defined as US$10 000, leverage 1:100. The deposit may not be topped up. The Return On Investment (ROI%) is annualised on 3 months. Equity includes Net Profit and Initial Capital of $10,000.
Ranking Name PF Equity ROI % pa
(3 month
annualised)
1 Better 2.18 $130,475.45 4819.0%
2 wackena 2.4 $55,042.10 1801.7%
3 Pegas 3.03 $39,945.81 1197.8%
4 draz 1.37 $39,547.76 1181.9%
5 zyx40 1.96 $36,858.40 1074.3%
6 YuraZ 2.12 $35,222.97 1008.9%
7 Saloght 1.77 $34,888.70 995.5%
8 Newman2 2.04 $31,952.46 878.1%
9 TeamSky 5.16 $29,924.87 797.0%
10 Greezly 2.96 $26,932.05 677.3%
The winner of the competition made on an annualised basis over 5,200 % or 52 times his capital per annum. This means if you start with $500, he would expect to make $25,000 for the year.
So you have the facts and you know how to interpret the results. Spend some time to decipher the information. Its normally overwhelming the first time. You get into self-denial. ” How can this happen, but not to me?! “
#90
Alamak. No table and no edit
Correction
“The winner of the competition made on an annualised basis over 4,819% or, say, 50 times his capital per annum. This means if you start with $500, he would expect to make $25,000 for the year.”
OK. Let me try to soften the psychological blow for you guys. We don’t want you feel that you are going in blind where angels fear to tread.
(a) This is the finest art of trading. But not many people can reach this stage. In the first place they don’t even know its there. So trying to get there is out of the question.
(b) Obviously, some people are making this kind of money. For every actor who makes $100 million, there are people to throw in $500 million to finance the movie. The financiers can’t act to save their lives and they probably didn’t make their money from movies.
(c) Theoretically, you can loose as much as you make. In practice, it is much safer. With proper money management, profits can be consistent. You work on a profit ratio with controlled risks. Over a series of trading cycles, you will make more money than you loose. And you will never be margined out.
(d) All the losses you read in the papers are about rogue traders bypassing governance and frauding their institutions. Take the latest Societe Generale’s US $7.09 billion loss. No organisation can prevent fraud from a trusted and experienced insider.
(e) If it is really so unsafe, the financial institutions will have none of it. You would expect Nick and Barings would be the last word on derivatives. But this was not so. Quite on the contrary. Banks are making all the more and bigger bets since Barings. The money becomes bigger with time. Other than insider fraud, trading financials is making safe bets for big money. It is now an indispensable part of any finacial institution.
(f) The really frightening part comes back to Man. Trading room controls are to date a myth. Nobody stops traders even if they understand what they are doing. If traders stop trading, everybody will loose their bonuses and some even their jobs. The pressure and excitement is so great that many, both traders and their supervisors, can loose their sense of balance.
(g) When Jerome Kerviel, Soc Gen’s rogue was caught, he is said to have a position exceeding $100 billion nominal exposure. This is beyond comprehension even amongst hardcore traders.
The money is real. Otherwise, why are all big companies and institutions are in the game. But trading derivatives is a zero sum game ultimately. For everyone to win $1, someone has ultimately lose the same $1.
The reason why the man-in-the-street doesn’t get to hear about these things is because we all agreee to live in a Lie. When companies make the extraordinary profits, we attribute it to how smart we are in managing the business. When we loose money we blame it on fraud and rogue traders. Remember the “Oil-the-Sky” company from behind the bamboo curtain. Case-in-point. Do we ever hear of the money made or lost in gambling derivatives.
Gambling is the only word. Because with hedging or arbitraging, you will never break the bank. But then you will not be able to pay yourself obscene bonuses, tell the world what a superstar manager you are and win “____ of the Year” awards.
Dear KT
Sound very chim technically.
Can you paraphrase #90-92 in five simpler sections, step by step please?
Want to learn, must learn from guru like you at #101 level, boleh?
Andrew @ #94
Wait for the book – a three parts financial thriller. Or the movie.
“Lust No Caution”
Or attend our Power Breakfast or Power Happy House talks.
Hahaha. KT @#90, I like that.
Alonso & Schumnacher zip thru the thoroughfares at breakneck speed but the ordinary ah beng will hv the whole station of polismen after him if he does anythg like 150kmph.
Winners of competitions hv to shine but the yr neighbour ah beng is in a bind cos if he too can shine, he’s not called ah beng.
But I do get yr point, no less.
Tim @ 96
You can; Ah Beng can too!
Auto-trading. The proverbial golden goose. Shake it and out comes the golden eggs. Not too hard, please. Best just leave it to lay. More haste and it’ll be all shit. And a dead goose too.
Ok, KT, it’s a deal. Ah Beng can, you all the more can.
Pls buzz me when you’re ready to help my USD500 multiply and proliferate to USD512k in 12 months.
$ is no matter to you…weaving the the money tree with the $-wand, you dont need more money but I will still give you smthg for the big help.
Will give you a gander & a goose, both young, innocent & unspoilt. Marry them off as you wish, watch them multiply ………..
With more money made from auto-trade, I’ll buy some of the goslings parented by my gander & goose from you.
And we have more birds and continue with more bird talks.
Yeah?
Hi KT
Count me in with the fine bird breeding and harvesting.
Will share goslings with you.
Will do with USD 1000 to USD100,000 in 2008, on-yes? 100 folds is good enough for me.
I will fish myself after learning from a grand master.
Lots of hope to call you Grand Master in Auto Trading, please.
Hi Guys
Thank you Andrew Kuan#83. Why don’t you just name some options more on investments and making the dollars as you have vast knowledge and experience. You can give me some examples.
As for you Tim Liu#84 thanks for your opinions and foresight. Wow, if your $500.00 can increase to 512K in 12 months, who will not invest – I will, just show me the way.
KT#90/91 apart from this World Automated Trading Championship 2007 how much have you made and within how long – I am more interested from your own self that you have made “the money”.
You guys really have a lot to talk, I don’t have the time …. I have to go now.
Cheers!
Sophia Lim
Geese Farmers Unite !
Me no goose. Me gander. We geese.
(The male goose is called a gander and the female is the goose.)
Geese talk ….
A good trader thinks very differently from the other folks. Some say contrarian. But this is too much of a generalisation. It is being right most of the time. And making money when you are wrong.
There are many techniques and technologies; some simple and others sophisticated. But the tool is not as important as the Man. Tiger Woods don’t owe his success solely to his clubs.
IMO, the difference is an attitude. Traders are highly opinionated and always have a view of the things important to them. They can accept that the view is wrong at times but they will act their views out with conviction and play it by ear.
If you want to be a great trader, learn first to get an uncomprimising attitude. Always have a view to the window of wealth.
It is about being right most of the time. And make money when you are wrong.
Local equities. Do we buy now?
IMO. As expected, the market cows are flirting with the bulls. It goes up just enough to put some bulls in heat and then castrate the herd.
I expect more blood on the streets before everyone feels that the end of hope is nigh. That’s when you buy. When??
I was hoping after CNY. But it looks like there are some really stubborn bulls.
Short your derivatives. Play some poker and enjoy your CNY. Wait for well done beef steaks (possibly longer now to June/summer), before the market turns.
Investors have strong and clear mental aptitude, and calm psychology, besides skills honed over years.
Each mistake is an invaluable lesson and get out quickly. Live simply and smile most of the times. Appreciate and smell roses along the way.
Understand, they are beyond academic textbooks.
Btw, Sophia, I am teaching FA and selection of businesses at both basic and intermediate in sufficient depth on 16 (am only) & 23 (whole day) Feb resply. Hopefully to teach thrice per year just like when I taught at the varsities, twice/thrice a year.
Sophia @ # 100
Don’t get us wrong. Nobody is least interested in soliciting or managing your funds.
Here we are only expressing and exchanging views. We learn from each other. We trade on our views. You take it from there. If you take away something, good for you. If not, just leave it.
If your trading is based on published audited historical results, then just buy funds. It is a no-brainer to buy the best single consistent record in history.
Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway stock is priced at USD 142K. Remember that you are buying history. You have to decide if it is fully valued today.
If you want something on the wild side try Soro’s Quantum fund. It is not listed. I understand that you give them a blank cheque and make sure you have US $1 billion in cash as initial deposit.
Most trader’s performance ride the same waves as the market they trade in. Yesterday’s winners are today’s losers. Some people make a lot of money doing just the opposite. Sell the winners and buy the losers.
In the market, we have a saying. “The past doesn’t tell the future”.
Caveat emptor.
Dear KT
Secrets of master investors ……stay relevant and current, can ride the waves ….. devoid of fear and greed……. well said.
Past is record, future is an art and response to passion, love and care ……. .
Every trade and buying of assets is a passionate art.
Hi guys!
Why don’t you take up the gauntlet and take on Sophia’s challenge?
Geese talk and all that gerrymandering… just show us the figures!
Can we put $500 with KT and $25 with Tim and see where that leads us to at the end of the year?
Ken @ #106
Now you’re talking.
I thought we are only hot air, playing rubber bands, paintball and shooting blanks.
“Giving you fish will last you a day. Teaching you to fish will last more than a lifetime.” (Put winnings into a snowballing annuity and leave the balance behind when you exit for the casino in the sky.)
Put autotrading with you as group mentor. I play guru here …..Ohhhmmmmm…. Form a group around you if you wish. Trade together and test it yourself at the risk of the cost of a cup of coffee per trade. Small price to pay considering it could be the mother-goose-of-all retirment plans.
Same thing. We’ll pitch in for a hedge fund of $500 around Tim. We’ll bet with him and learn how to kick this ball around. I’ll be in charge of listing the world first soccer hedge fund if it scores.
Then we can seed fund another $500 for Daniel Chan’s semi-pro poker team. Dan will be the mentor coach and trainer for A-Team. Initially, we will pick our strikers from SHC with weekly selection trials. The first objective is to break the bank at Sands opening @ Marina by 2011. The second is to field the winning team at World’s Poker Championship. “Every journey of a billion $ starts with $500.”
Laugh? Why. No one blinked when we threw the first $30 billion into a black hole. By comparison, that’s hilarious. (Some say we’ll throw in up to another $30 billion soon to average down in hope of saving face and the “Best ___ award of the Year”. If you can’t smile after that, be glad its not stroke.)
We may have to drive a lot to balance this budget. It may soon become every citizen’s patriotic duty to drive from Serangoon Gardens to Shenton Way five times a day through peak hours.
“Your Country Needs You.”
Still hee-hee for now…..
Hi KT
Stay focussed and maximise core competencies.
There will always noise and distractions; and confidence and quitetness; love, joy and peace.
Your pick and ignore those not meant for us…..stay healthy, fresh, nimble, happy and useful.
There are also many types of airs…. choose the clean, balanced and fresh air.