Following our last gathering on “Intro to US options” at the Oxford Hotel, there has been request to organise smaller talks to follow up on various investment options. Many of the investment talks that are advertised in the newspapers and open to the public, cost in the few thousand dollars. For members that are looking to learn from these gurus, they usually register with different institutions, and spend a couple of days at these investment talks. For SilverHairsClub, we are looking at a smaller scale, subject to the speakers, and available and cost of location. And perhaps, consideration to internet access for participants bringing their minipads, IPADS, Laptops or smartphones. Maybe not in the 2000 to 3000 SGD range; but in the SGD 300 range and for about 5-8 participants. The structure could include “How to open a trading acccount”, specific to the investment type. If it is on US options, then the session could include “How to open a US trading account”. Then, the speaker can focus on the speaker’s strategies and live trades. And, ample examples and actual trade results.
1. If you are a regular trader, and would like to teach on a small scale, along the concept above, for a fee, please contact SHE@silverhairsclub.com.
2. And, as a member, if you are looking for a fellow member who has been trading, please indicate your investment interest, and we will organise small groups, as per above concept.
Please also give your suggestions, so that we can link fellow investors. And thank you to the members who have shared and helped me structure the concept of investment talks.
Terence Seah
I support the idea. I believe getting some expert advice or regular guidance on
investment strategies is among some of the retirees wish from SHC club.
To have this gathering on on a suitainable basis, I feel the followings should be met
1) a regular meeting place with audio/visual facilities with internet access for live
demo and/or slide/graph presentation
2) experienced trader willing to come forward to share their strategies be it in forex,
equity trading or stock investment. Not sure if we have such individuals among
the SHC members. If any one have sufficient experiences, do dare to step
forward and share. My reasons for saying these are that some of my mentors
have no strong previous financial background but through sheer passion and
learning and sharing has become some sort of authorities. Their credential and
current recognition is proven by being on the board of ” The Mortley Fool” regular
contributors on market outlook and stock pick.
3) The cost of holding this session should be kept as low as possible just to defray
the organising cost. The key is for members to share strategies and knowledge
so members can make better investment and trade choice and make money
from the market. Again my reasons for saying this is I am member to some
weekly regular session ( trading in Hk, USA, SGP equity sharing) and another
monthly session (in USA special form of option trading ) where it is free.
It is free because the organisers dont need to make money from these session.
They made money from having proven trader in their field making money from
the market and just want to share their strategies.
The group I am in believe in “The Law of Abundance”, “Paying it Forward” and
the successful one have been contributing to the Cancer Society and Kidney
Foundation
4) Lastly members must see value in attending such sessions ie benefitted by
making money from the sharing and discussion. Disclaimers clause as usual
applies for indemity and that the sharing is for educational purposes but no one
would complain if such session give the attendants a better sucess rate.
I do hope the first session get kicked off and quickly structured to a form that is sustainable. And I have some experience to know if it will sustain or not . Otherwise it will become another one off event.
Leon
Hi Leon, Kenneth,
Many of our members have been trading for a number of years. And, many keep their knowledge to themselves for various reasons. Many spend thousands of dollars attending courses on investment talks. They trade frequently.
At the same time, other members have also attended similar courses, and they are beginners. They would like to learn from other investors (fellow members). They want to learn the strategies of other investors, and of course, some live trades. Yet, to pay for a course costing a few thousands dollars would take some time to decide. The experienced trader is asked to conduct a course, to share his strategy but is not able to decide how much to charge. Should we ask the trainer to charge $300 or $500 per pax? At the same time, finding a venue is not easy. Intenet access is the other.; It is easy for members to bring their own IPADS or laptops. The trainer is also pressured to have to put up a program, spend time to prepare, etc.
Luckily, I stop online investments some 4 years ago. But, I believe we can learn from fellow members, for a few hundred dollars per person, instead of a few thousand dollars.
For the learner, he is unsure how good the trainer is. Will the trainer share his strategy?
We had done a first step. We organised a session for the general membership to listen to an experienced trader, in a particular subject. We had Kenneth Tan as our first speaker to conduct an intro into “US options”. Those who attended have commented to me that Kenneth is good and he explained and intro well. It was clear. But, 90% of the attendees who attended the intro felt it was too basic. He did not conduct a live trade. Members expected him to share his strategies. Unfortunately, there was no internet access. But, then we had organised the investment talk as an intro. It was also free.
I think Kenneth has done a good job introducing US options. The 2nd step would be for Kenneth to conduct a course, maybe over two days. This time, it will be more than an intro, he can bring the class into the subject, opening a n account,l share his strategies, and show us some real live trades.
Then, we can book a classroom, set up internet access, and then conduct a two day course, maybe delayed in the day or live at night.
For members who would like to learn from other experienced trader, please let us know what you think, so the organisers know what they can do.
And for experienced trader, please share your thinking too. You too can participate in a two step session, the first step to provide an intro to members on your investment type and a second step to conduct a live training session, sharing your strategies and results.
For a start, let’s try to convince Kenneth to give the idea a go. We adopt a similar step. We know him as a fellow member.
Terence Seah
Hi Terence, I suggest you should take the cue from Leon Lau on the subject of Investments. Since joining SHC 2 years ago, I have yet the privilege of meeting him which I hope will be soon. I guess the investment group can be divided into various sub-groups in order to be meaningful and relevant. The sub-groups could be:
Group A : Singapore/Malaysia equities
Group B : Trust & Bonds
Group C : Forex
Group D : US equities & options.
Sorry I know next to nothing on all the groups but I used to see my children playing around with Group D and what I heard from them is that US equities & options is like a machine. The difference is – A Jackpot machine or an ATM machine. I am sure Leon and his mentors will understand this terminology. May I suggest that Group D separate into 2 Groups:
D1 : Those interested to invest in US equities & options. (currently have no account)
D2 : Members already have an account and trading.
If group D is to be activated only D2 should start first. Since Leon is experienced and have mentors you should invite him to lead in Group D. With Leon and his mentors who are willing to impart skills I am sure Group D2 is sustainable.
If attendees can benefit and make money, it will be automatically sustainable. After the success of forming Group D2, then D1 can commence as group D2 will support D1. This is only my long shot suggestion and I hope you will take up the kind offer from Leon while it is still hot. With warm regards, SS
Hi SS,
Leon is interested to offer investment courses, altho he is concerned with the lack of members’ response. There appears to be interests, but no one has expressed interest to attend. So, really don’t know how or where to start. You can imagine if the courses are planned, and few people or nobody is interested, what do you do. Planning and finding a venue, preparing the course contents and setting aside the date and time.
Another concern is the lack of organisers. We read members want to have such courses, but in reality, we have zero organisers.
You have suggested I take the cue. I spend 3/4 of my month overseas. If we have no organisers, many events cannot take off. The idea of getting helpers, no one wants to organise for free. All, if not most members, expect organising to be done for free. “Someone can do it, but not me.”. Even when some members offer to organise an event, the EO will be criticized. I don’t need to go into details, but we have stories.
I wonder how we can moderate such difficulties.
Terence Seah
Can understand your frustrations, Boss !
On one extreme, you have a member saying he has to work, no time, cannot dance and want you to find time for him; and on the other, people wanting you to create something so that they can make money. Why you?
Are you Fairy Godmother?
??: “????, ????” – anybody care to translate ?
DC
DC: from Internet dictionary –
What you don’t want done to you, don’t do to others.
Hewlee
Time = Interest. More interest more time or even not enough time. It is just a life priority.
Thank you HL. That’s it if literally translated. Twist it a little to suit our context, “If you don’t want to do it, don’t ask others to do it”.
I always admire EOs who confidently and consistently come up with something – a walk in the park, a chat in the coffee-shop or a dance in the hall. No frills no thrills but down to earth activities that bring people together, and with minimal interference from Terence.
Anybody who writes pages of proposals, recommendations, suggestions etc but expects somebody else to execute it is as good as no contribution.
DC
Hi DC (aka GK)
Well said ~
Hi DC,
I try, can?
??: “????, ????”
Confucius said: “Things that you don’t like to do, don’t force it on other people in doing it”
Some of our members would like to attend investment talks by fellow members. They like to start, to meet fellow investors with similar topics, and of course, to learn at a starting pace at a start fee. But, maybe some are shy, and dont speak up until someone suggests a topic.
On the other hand, we have fellow members who are already trading and investing everyday for a number of years. They do like to share their knowledge and experience, yet they do not know how to offer their knowledge share. They are not sure how much to charge, as they are aware courses are high, as advertised in the papers. Yet, they are concerned that there is a lot of work to prepare, find a venue, suitable internet facilities, time, etc.
In our club, I see that there are interested members who are willing to pay for a course, if the fee is reasonable? Then, we have also members who are willing and able to conduct investment courses, but, there is so much work to be done. How much to charge is a shy topic.
Why are there no volunteers in the club to help organise such courses? Let’s talk it out. Maybe we can find a solution.
Terence Seah
Hi Silverhairs,
The past two years has seen almost daily a wealth of investment information
in the media. Do we have the time of at least Twenty minutes daily perusing
such pertinent information which in my opinion is an absolute necessity for
short-term investors with a Three-to-Six months timeframe.
Yours truly is essentially a Speculatior(gambler) on-n-off since the early Nineties
vis-à-vis Clob shares. Traders(nice word) like us focus specifically on high-volumes speculative(rapid up-down of stock prices) stocks, though in recent
years I ignore the counters traded below THIRTY cents, the reason being more
contractual volumes involved as I’ve learnt to limit the volume to maximum
Fifty lots, for easier calculation as well as “control” losses meaning a Half-cent
difference is either a Two-hundred and Fifty$ Profit or Loss, exclunding brokerage charges..
Regards
Abel Tan
Hi Abel,
I have not been a day-trader. During the 3-4 times, where I tried to buy and sell on the same day, I lost 50% of my investment. I am thinking of organising something for interested members, sometime in Oct 2014.
Can you give us an intro and what makes day trading tick for you, and give us an insight into how successful or unsuccessful you have been on some of the days.
Terence Seah
I see now that there are many posts on this subject.
I would like to give my 2 cts worth of comments.
First it is necessary to invest your money because of inflation.
Every year our money is getting smaller and even if we put our money in the bank
its interest (maybank for senior FD is 1.8%) is unable to meet the singapore inflation of 2 to 4%. Besides investing in properties and others it is logical to invest in shares.
First one must differentiate between investing and speculating.
Speculating is for the risk takers. Doing day trading is exciting but remember if
not careful you can get burnt The broker loves day traders because they earn their commissions whether you win or lose. If you want to be a day trader I suggest you have a separate bank account with your spare cash to trade and do not touch your money that are for your lifestyle needs.
As for me and I hope it applies to others in my age group (pioneer generation) I prefer to buy singapore shares and keep for 1 year because at our age it is not
worth looking toward the next 5 years so enjoy the fruits rather than leave to your family.
I am a contented man and I buy shares with dividend that gives a yield that is higher than the FD rate. My rationale is if the price drops I still have my dividend and if the price goes up I can sell if it reached my target. Today SGX announce that
Jan19 2015 the blue chips like UOB,DBS,OCBC can be bought in 100 lots. so these are opportunities to build a nest of good shares with 3 to 4% dividend yield.
As for investment education there are free courses conducted by the brokers such as Phillips Securites and UOB kayhian catered for the new investors.
My personal opinion is do not listen to rumours and do not take seriously analyst reports because usually their recommendations are too late to act.
You can get latest comments from forums such as nextinsight or shareinvester
Hi Peter
It’s good to hear from you; yes, there are investors and there are speculators…
But I think that in most of us Singaporeans, there is a little bit of a speculator: Just look at the long lines at the Toto booths!
This gambling mentality is intrinsically Chinese (no offense to the others but I think a case can also be made for others)… Our forefathers made a huge gamble to leave their homeland and try to make a success overseas. Chinese can be found in every nook and cranny of the earth and, today, they are especially predominant in business, industry and in the hoards of tourists traipsing all over the tourist hotspots.
I digress, but what I wanted to point out is that investing is also a bit of a gamble… There are numerous examples of investments gone wrong… that we can often only explain away on hindsight. Even “safe” bets on stocks or property can take a nasty tumble in a crash, wiping out years of frugal savings.
Is it possible to avoid these crashes? Can we time the market? Can we protect ourselves from the extreme volatility of the present market? Is Buy and Hold a valid strategy today or has it become Buy and Pray? Is there a case for alternative investments, what about gold, derivatives, and… forex?
I would like to suggest an investment summit….a kind of conference where all interested SilverHairsClub members can meet. We can have a few key speakers presenting their take on the market, their personal investment philosophy and strategies. We can then break up into smaller groups to discuss topics raised and move on to form interest groups. Hopefully we can help SHCs make better investments and help secure their retirement.
What say you?
Hi-Kenneth good friend
I fully support your suggestion on having an investment summit rather I call it a chit-chat.
Actually we can include it the monthly coffee chat at singapore post makan centre.
There we can exchange personal investment strategies and learn from each other experiences.
I like to repeat again. To gamble or “speculate” is each person’s choice. but make sure you have the money to weather any losses.
The days of contra trading will be over soon. By next year or so you need to put up a percentage of the share value as soon as you bought it.
regds
regds
Members who are interested to offer investment talks, please indicate clearly on this Post your interest, so we can organise you to give an intro into your area of investment types. This can be done at one of our gatherings. Once you have provided an intro, you can gauge the level of interest, and assist you to organise more indepth courses.
Feel free to organise your own sessions, or let me know if you would like to do your intro during one of our gatherings. Some of the issues we would have to look at are finding a suitable venue, internet facilities, time (day or night, Weekends or weekdays), a structured program and costs.
Feel free to contribute ideas.
Terence Seah
For some reasons, we have no response to speakers who would like to conduct investment courses for a fee. Yes, we do have suggestions on this forum that we should conduct our own investment courses; but unfortunately, it just ended there.
Those, whom we have approached are hesitant for various reasons.
On this basis, I have decided not to purse investment talks. I shall therefore leave this activity to members’ interest. Feel free to organise.
Terence Seah
Some members felt I gave up too easily. Not really, I dont give up easily. Although there may be no response on this forum from members to conduct investment courses, there are members who are interested.
Kenneth Tan conducted one of our earlier sessions on “Intro to US options” a few months ago. Some members felt he was a good speaker and he was able to make Options easy to understand.
Well, we spoke again today, after his trip from Vietnam. He is considering doing a 2 day course, each course approx 4 hours. It wont be those 2000 to 3000 dollar courses; but we will bring down the price to a workable level after considering the place, internet facilities and a workable fee.
The topic is likely to have the title “How to create Income using Options (Strategies for the Conservative Investor). More details will be up soon.
Terence Seah