Hi all bringing this topic up after a year.
" Hi all SHC members, I have read that in USA it is common for retirees
or housewifes to form a group, so that they can get their hands into
Investing in Stocks, Futures, with the experts in the club providing
good and free advice resulting in good returns. As i have just starting
getting into investiing in stocks , futures, CFDs ,etc, i just wonder
if we can form such a group , so that those who may be Experts can
share their expertise and experience to help new comers like me. So
far , i have learned quite a lot from people like Dave and Andrew and i
think they could be others out there who may have just as much as
expertise or more and can help us all. At the same time, some who
like me, who are just starting out, will defintely benefit by learning
from these people. Of course’ everything is on a good will basis, no
guarantees and everyone is responsible for their own investments, but
talk is free, and knowing more is defintely better in any investments.
At the end of day, it is also a good way to get to know more SHC
members and have something current and of strong interests to talk
about. bringing this topic up again after a year. "
So
after a year it seems now they maybe more like minded people who want
to work and share information to benefit from group effort, strategies,
snergy and wisdom.
But the focus now will be on just Forex.
Why, if you see the changes in price or commodities, rice, oil , gold
and US $ and other currencies, you should be aware you can lose
money even if you do nothing simply due to inflation.
So
all those who feel they can contribute in some way and at the same time
gain from doing so, let us try and meet and do this.
With
group snergy we can use many tools , and expertise from those who have
experience in other areas like Finance, TA , fundamentals,
or very specialised areas in banking , Japanese
candlesticks, world financial economics , even history.
Cost of getting better charting tools, Autofx programs, financial
reports can be shared , thus making the group more effective as
compared to a single individual.
I am already in a group
for a year and and can say that it can work , what more if members are
retired experienced investors in their own right. Those who are
keen to discuss this further can email me for further info. Open
to all SHC members who are willing to share and contribute effort,
expertise and some time to operate this as an investment
business. Cheers
Hi Ronald
You form the Fellowship, can participate.
Tell more about this Group you are in.
Cheers,
Hi RonaldW,
Great initiative, and I shall join you whenever I am in town, and you have something on. Am more of a novice in this area, so catch up soon.
Terence Seah
Hi Ron W,
I am also interested. Please keep me in the loop.
Hi Andrew, Terence and Charles,
Will update and communicate by emails as most of our discussions will be too technical and specific to currency pairs that we should be looking at, as global banks face massive write-downs from the U.S. subprime mortgage crisis. The obvious currency pairs are clear, what we need to analyse using TA, fundamentals and economic trends and also history (as quoted by Simon Sim in his book – “Seven year cycles”, for reference, he has been very accurate predicting in 2004 on the Indexes and gold price in year 2008, if only I had followed him ) to know the timing and targets.
Looking forward to fruiful sharing of individual expertise, experience, knowledge and research work towards achieving good returns to fight inflation at least. Cheers
Dear Ronald
Keep me informed through emails.
Cheers,
Dear Ronald,
Am interested in the group investment thingy, please let me know further. Thanks!
Hi Ronald
Is your group familiar with Ganns Analysis / Cycle Studies as brought up by Eleanor in the other thread ?
If so like to prepare for a) equity, b) commodities and c) currency pairs.
a) equity – try any two : SGX, OCBC, SMM, YZJ or F&N
b) Commodities – any two : Pl, Au, Crude Oil, Fe or Palm Oil
c)Currency pairs – any two : USD/Euro, USD/SGD or USD/Yen
Thanks
Dear Ronald ( comment at #7 )
Please refer to ID#1531 thread titled “SHC Monthly gathering on Thurs, 17 April” comment #114 on Ganns Analysis/Charting
Cheers,
Gann is an original classic study that has resulted in three schools. His work is old and has been since superseded by many “improved” techniques in the specific class.
(a) Price study – This uses support and resistance lines, pivot points and angles. Dennis is correct. Fibonacci is the latest evolution in this class.
(b) Time study – This looks at historically reoccurring dates, derived by natural and social means. Elliot wave is a popular interpretation of this genre.
(c) Pattern study – This looks at market swings using trendlines and reversal patterns. Channel trendlines and candlesticks are almost used by all chartist today.
In the previews, we have shown completely self-running algos for all the above studies. We have tested all the signals over the history of the four major currencies. Some good; some bad; some of the time. Nothing really outstanding. Each indicator typically can at best give slightly than even odds under some circumstances. For example, trendlines are good for trending market and support/resistances good for ranging markets. But market dynamics keep changing. So what indicator to apply under what market condition is still a guess for most.
Gann and the indicators that supersede it are good educational tools because they help to break down a subject into smaller digestible parts. But they are very limited as practical trading systems. Over time, by themselves they will lose money.
Nothing is static.
Good judgment is required when using/understanding FA, TA, PA (punters’ analysis -speculators’ behaviours), geopolitical Economics and policies as tools to invest and to trade in a dynamic world.
What and how much to know, when to act on trends, direction, value/range and when to wait patiently without losing sight of micro and macro without being panicky with steel calm and warm heart, smiling face, velvet hands, quiet confidence and timely action.
These are keys.
Hi all,
Most of us all dont really have the time to monitor the charts and trends on a daily/weekly basis but maybe on a monthly basis to see the trend in 6 months time, then decide what to do.
So the purpose of this group is to help us make some wise decision and hopefully ride the wave and stay on even when the price fluctuates strongly in the short term.
As I have mentioned to understand what this means, all of us should read Simon Sim’s book and you will understand what it means to ride the wave and benefit handsomely even when you do not monitor the trends daily/weekly.
He was widely known to have made what UBS it is when it was relatively unknown and he left UBS in 2004 early before the downturn of UBS when people do not listen to his cycles and analysis.
So will email to you all more details of where to find his book and maybe we can pass the book around in the group or at least the trends that we should be looking for. I will be looking for more of his seminars or articles and keep you all informed by email.
Andrew, I also like your assessment of the current debt situation of the major currencies and hope maybe you can share them with the rest in the group as it does strengthen what is predicted in 2004 by Simon Sim in his book , what happens after the Chinese olympics.
Briefly when Gold was hitting the roof in early 2007 at $800 mark , he was saying keep on buying gold and dont sweat if it flutuates a few tens of dollars. Hold it and hold it, if you can. Now it is already above $1000 and that is already a 25% return in less than a year.
So let us share whatever we can find that helps us to make better decision in longer term or medium term for a reasonable gain, and that do not require us to be glued daily/weekly on charts , trends and predictions that changes like the tidal waves.
Hi Ronald
With focus, knowledge, understanding and discipline, an average yearly returns (minimum) of 15% is achievable in whatever class of ASSETS one trades in.
Please share Simon Sim’s book and his insight, sounds interesting and also a modern and updated Ganns cycles analysis/studies.
Look forward to read his learned discoveries.
Cheers,
Is his book called the Joseph Cycle, Ronald?
Yes Andrew , have you read it and is there a new release. The name Joseph refers to early history when such cycles are happening already.
Hi Ronald:
I had a glimpse of the key headings of his writings.
“Quite” familiar with the premises of the historical true events and happenings in both dimensions : natural talents/abilities and financial assets.
There are diligence, deep knowledge, sound understanding and practical wisdom with love, joy and peace in real-life applications needed to achieve success and good risks mgt.
The last three are cultivated and grown over time with discipline, humility, constancy and quiet confidence with innate and acquired abilities to think and write clearly with acuity and conciseness.
Sound simple, however need focus and discipline and willingness to learn constantly.
Hi Ron W,
Where’s his book sold? Has he written another? Also if his theory of 7 good years followed by 7 bad or lean years, that means he is saying we are nearer the END since his book was written about 01 or 02. Am I right?
Cheers
Joseph cycle is just Elliot wave (3 up 2 down in a major up trend direction and vice versa) version for the local stock market.
By itself, wave studies have perceptual flaws and lacks critical precision. But many current practioners try to map an elegant theory with other indicators. To me its a little like flogging a dead horse. But some people swear by it.
At Scorebot, there is a guru called Ivan who specializes in merging Elliot with Fibonacci into a successful and effective trading tool. He live-trades the local market. So you can test his ideas with him in real time. It apparently works very well with local stocks.
If you like this area of study don’t miss his course. It will save you a lot of pain and many years of experience.
Stand on the shoulders of giants – if you can find one. At Scorebot at least, it is hard to find midgets.
Hee-hee.
KT, really buay tahan you people, plotting & charting waves, crests, troughs and then sink into deep deep depressions when the mart, to use ah wong’s words, become “silly & incredible”.
Instead of the algo, why dont you all do the a go-go after all go to the turf club where you get to watch the big brave horses tearing down the straight in thunderous strides before you queue at the windows for the day’s makings?
The horsemen liberally throw tips around, like holding the whip on the left hand means “no go”, hanging both legs loose and not on the stirrups means “on” and scratching the backside means charging home after a tardy start at the gates.
With a $2 investment, you can reap anythg from $0 to $infinity.
Hi Tim #18, KT and everybody,
I also buay tahan, all this talk about forex, ATMs and auto-trading.
Well, I lost a few hundreds at Wynn Casino in Macao few weeks ago. And still wondering if my investments will recover from the sub-prime crisis in two years time. And, Tim, you are not much of a help, as I was wondering if you will teach me some tricks betting on horses and football.
Well, last few weeks, I have decided to sign up for a forex trading account. Really wanting to learn why and how people lose money trading in GSB, Euro, USD, etc … So far, it has been too complicated for me, so many charts, waves, peaks and valleys, But I am pretty determined to learn the tricks, if there are tricks of making money.
Don’t think I will make any money, but I am prepared to lose up to SGD 1,000 for the learning adventure. If I make SGD 1,000, some of you will get a treat from me. Or else, I will have to sell all my stuffs at the Flea mart.
One of our members has already warned me not to put in more money. Well, I just started. But that’s it.
Guys and gals, you read a fair bit about investments on this forum. The SHC site does not object to investment discussions. I ask if you ever put money into any investment or trading accounts, as a result of knowing someone from SilverHairsClub, plse be prepared to lose it. If it is your retirement savings, forget it. Remember, if you hear someone makes money, another someone has to lose it.
I am at the Park Hotel. They have a happy hour from 4 – 8pm. So, I am leaving now. Remember again, there are risks in investments and trading of all sorts.
Terence Seah
Terence @ #19
It’s USD $1K, not SGD 1K. The reference currency is USD.
Tell us all about your experience in one month’s time. Perphaps with your permission we can display your account live.
Totally transparent and in real time. If it works as promised it may help many other members to see a future that they richly deserve. With Ample Time and Money to spend their retirement.
If my mom had lived longer to marry me to a woman of her choice, my life wd hv been a lot more different.
Free, easy, unbridled and with a bit of money in hand, I invested in anythg which was legal but which worked on the same zero-sum game principle : if you dont win you lose. And I lost.
So while it’s still my hobby to flutter in races & soccer, I wont encourage any followers and will only talk more deeply on it when I am drunk. Todate none has seen me drunk.
Yes, Terence reiterates the same point I too have made previously. If you hv some loose cange to lose, invest in anythg you dont know and dont need to know. But if you dabble with big money do please make sure you know how it works, how deep the actual exposure is and how soon you cant cut lost. Finally, dont dream of recouping what you had lost…………it’s as fat a hope as asking yr ex gf to return you your kiss.
Hi KT,RonaldW and everybody,
oops, and yes, it should be in USD. I dont want to sound like USD 1K is a small amount. This is equal to 400 bowls of my favourite mee pok dry at Kopitiam. For the risk, and learning, yes I will do it. But, this is because I am still working.
Hmm, but, I think there are other options to enlarge my retirement account. How about asking the teller cashier at the bank? Maybe, ask my new mother-in-law for a non-returnable loan. And lastly, i have this dream when I was younger, and that is to learn a new skill like massaging young ladies on a cruise ship. I think the rate is $60 per hour. Good retirement income.
Terence Seah
Hi again Terence at #19,
Never sign a discretionary a/c with any forex or commodity trader/broker. If you have done so, please cancel it immediately.
Some people think the objective of gambling is to make money. Nothing is further from the truth. Gambling should be a form of entertainment, like travelling, white water rafting, watching a play etc, period. Gambling is an expense item. Few gamblers make a living, they may make a living hell, but that’s it. Gambling is a game of chance. The result is not controllable, unless you cheat, in which you may be incarcerated.
If you want to gamble, just set aside some money and ‘entertain’ yourself. Don’t kid yourself otherwise. If you want to make money, like buy low and sell high, you must have an advantage, otherwise your venture is just like a game of chance, or gambling. You don’t know if you will win, and it is reckless and irresponsible.
If you want to bet, you must bet to win. If you don’t know how to bet to win, don’t waste your money. And always be truthful with yourself, if you have an advantage, you will win. If you lose, better you re-examine your bet, otherwise you might repeat it again.
And if you are right, you will be rich. You would have passed the ‘acid-test’. There are no ‘right’ losers in the mkt, at least not in the medium term. Luck helps but cannot be relied upon. Distinguish luck from your ‘gut feel’. They are not the same. Trust your ‘gut feel’ but not your luck. But when is your “‘gut feel’ of feeling lucky” a ‘gut feel’ and not a “lucky feeling”. Confusing? Sometimes. But if you cannot distinguish between the 2 then you cannot rely on the 2 feelings. I hope this hepls in your execution of the deals.
Good luck and good night.
Hi Terence @ #19
Like you I have recently opened a dual currency account which some banks called it the “premium account”. I hv to wait for a month to see where it is heading. But during this month I still get my interest which depends on the rate u peg the currency for the end of that month and that depends on how much risk u are willing to take. The higher the risk, the higher the interest.
This bank is also trying to sell me 10-year term annuities at 5% flat rate with a bonus thrown in after the 5th year and 10th year if there is no withdrawal. Accordingly the full amt can be taken out at the end of the 10-year period. Anybody interested can email me and I will let u know the name of that bank. Promotion ends end of April.
Hi Jessie, Charles , all
Thanks for your inputs, in addition Philips POEMs has another Currency investment account where you can select major currency pairs (no leveraging, so no margin call, etc).
There is no time limit and you can decide to go in or out anytime 24/7. So in essence it is like a 24 hour money changer and of course the spread is the commission charge.
It is good for medium term investment if you know which currency pairs to invest in. The really good thing of this is that you can act fast to go in or and out and so can make the best of your bet (as Charles mentioned , you bet to win, weighing in all factors and using timing to your advantage). In the event your calculations reverse due to unexpected change of events, etc, you are not trapped by maturity dates etc. So in Poems Fx invest, it is a new instrument not offerred yet by most other banks and you can use timing and factors to your advantage. The question now, is how do we educate ourselves to work out the best solutions, that is what the purpose of this group is for. That the group can read, study, analyse and make calculated bets using timing, leveraging, hedging and anything else we can find, to our best advantage. No group can make 100% wining bets all the time, so that is why we need to know that we have to make repeated bets.
Such a concept will work to be positive if we make calculated ,well informed decision based on good fundamentals, using good TA and wise predictions from Analysts who predicts well ahead firmly and not just throw theories but not predictions and make claims to state ‘I told you so’ only after what has happened.
In short I hope, this group can turn out to be a a sort of GIC among SHC and that is why I hope many more members with good investment knowledge, experience and education will be willing to come forward to share what they know. Andrew Kuan has offered to join and with his experience and knowledge , I am sure it will be beneficial to the group with his sound understanding of the world financial situation and accounting views.
Philips do offer monthly free talk on such topics on curreny investment and I will try keep you all updated of such events. It may be a good place and time for our first meeting to learn and discuss what is being offered and how to use what they offer with more perspectives.
Terence @22
YOUR new mother-in-law??
Did you re-marry? Or did your father-in-law re-marry?
Or did your wife get a new husband? Which is what my wife would do if I took a cruise ship massage job!
Anyway, If you ask a bank teller about investing, you are likely to be sold an insurance product. Whether an annuity or endowment, disguised as a great investment.
A dual currency account is like using the interest rate differential between two currencies to achieve a higher interest yield. The risk is that you can be converted to the lower currency… and if you don’t need the US or Aus dollar…?
Ronald Wie: Even GIC can make disastrous errors… What we should do is never bet the whole house. And remember that banks (and trading houses) make money on your trades and your trading.
Better think fast. In case, Tony Tan’s 30 years worst recession bell tolls for us.
Dual currency accounts is just forex trading with no leverage. If you are into this then do it properly as professionals do. But DIY and get it under your own control.
If you are just trading forex, do it with a completely auto algo like ATM. Just switch on and sleep. Collect your winnings when you need. Don’t pay a high fee for sub standard trades. Typically, a FI will manage to keep half of what they actually earn from trading your capital one way or another. They move in mysterious and invisible ways.
Another popular strategy with seniors is investing in a high yield currency. Now you can do this like the professionals.
With AUD, KIWI and other high interest rate currencies, your profit maximisation strategy is different. Keep the 7 to 8% interest rates on physical deposits and hedge using forex. A USD 200K deposit equivalent can be hedge against SGD with only the equivalent of USD 1K on a 200:1 leverage.
Everybody should have this in their portfolio. When you build up enough equity continue buy assets in the same country using the profits from the deposits and Dynamic Value Hedging.
A modest cash generating Bed & Breakfast accomodation in scenic OZ or KIWI can be bought with the equivalent of SGD 800K. You can’t even get a HDB exec flat in Tiong Bahru or Bt Merah overlooking your neighbours laundry and toilet for the same amount .
Then try Turkey. No, not for christmas. It pays 15+ pa %.
Don’t worry about devaluation. In fact, you make more money on the way down. You only need to worry if Turkey and its currency disappears from the face of the world. Like Jap banana money after the War. But highly unlikely today even in war torn countries.
Hi to those interested in #24
Correction to my input. As this is an investment linked annuities, full withdrawal amount will be based on the investment value at that point of time which could be either way. Sorry for misleading. For those who are interested it wld be better to contact the bank directly yourself.
Hi RonaldW,
I am not able to tell the difference between short and long, dual currency account, ATM, TA, etc …. Cannot figure out the charts, the peaks and the valleys.
So, I would like to join you, but in a limited way. I won’t pool with you. Working for a large conglomerate is nice, but I am a believer in keeping my life active in business, rather than investments in financial products of any sort. I am also kind of itchy and am likely to take a small equity stake in ScoreBot.
Got to admit I am patiently waiting for the sub-prime crisis and US/global recession to run its course. Please lead the discussion but for those who join you, please let them be aware of the risks.
Terence Seah
Hi Terence and all,
1)Short and long. Simply means if you are owing the asset, ie short, or you bought and owned the asset, ie long. If you are renting a house in Sgp, then you are short in the property mkt. If and when the property prices tumble, you will be able to buy another property later and cheaper, thereby making a profit. Conversely if you own a house now and the property prices rise, you will benefit from your increased asset value in your property. But if you are short on property, you will have to pay more for the property later as all or most of us need a roof over our heads. This applies to all aset classes, property, shares, currency, commodities. The most familiar asset class are shares. If you had sold all your shares by Oct 07 abd sat on your money, earning interests, you will be able you buy those same shares back at a much lower price. Or youmight wasnt to wait longer if you believe the share prices will continue to fall further given the sub-prime and other problems the US is facing. Whether the share prices fall or rise is indeterminate. If you can foretell correctly, you will win a lot of money, and if you are wrong, you will lose a lot of money also. Currency is also the same. You can buy NZD eg and earn the higher (8%) interest say from Jan 08 (actually from much earlier), and have a NZD fixed deposit (FD) till now, say, but you willl have lost some money as the NZD now is lower than most of last year. But of course, if you believe that the NZD will still rise, then you can continue with your ‘long’ position till they appreciate past your cost or target price. Again the future is uncertain and so are your anticipated profits.
Must go and eat now.
Dual currency investments (DCI) are when you have a currency (usually foreign), say NZD, that you place with a bank. The bank will give you a higher interest rate, (eg 12% or 13%) than the prevailing (say 8%). In return should the NZD rise above 5% or 10% at maturity, (say 1 or 3 months), you will be forced to sell your NZD to the bank at the spot rate on initiation, ie instead of being able to sell your NZD at a higher rate on maturity, you will have to sell it for the agreed, lower rate. But this is ‘struk’ only on maturity date. If the NZD rises above the ‘strike’ price and comes down on maturity date, you will still have the NZD. The bank makes their money by selling you the foreign currency and also from the ‘put’ option which they can sell in the mkt. The money from the ‘put’ option is used to pay the bank, their employees and your additional interests from your enhanced rate.
DCIs are good for those with a stream of foreign income which they have to convert to their base currency. Eg if you have a stream of NZD from renting a NZ property, you can collect this till tjey reach NZD50k and above and do a DCI against the S$. It the DCI is struck, you wll get S$ but at a better rate than what you would have got at the time you entered into the DCI. But this rate is lower than the maturity rate, but you have an enhanced rate. And you would have got your S$, which you were going to change anyway, to pay for your S$ expenses. If the DCI is not struck, you still have your NZD and you can rollover your transaction, all the time earningan enhanced rate.
In other words the more times you do a DCI with the same original NZD, the more times you are right (vs the bank) amd the more money you are making.
Another advantage from the above example is that when you bring foreign currency to the bank to change to S$, they will make money from you from the exchange rate or a 1/8% charge. This way, you avoid the fx charge or the fx in-lieu charge as the rate on initiation of the DCI is the spot rate.
Cheers
Charles # 30
There is a much better way for stocks and foreign currency deposits. Both asset class returns can be capital protected and even enhanced by Dynamic Value Hedging. Conventional hedging is not perfect, inefficient and increases the holding cost.
Stocks
(a) Long the blue chips; hold and never sell; collect dividends
(b) Dynamic Value Hedge the stocks using the equivalent Contracts for Differences or CFD. There is normally a 5:1 leverage with CFD. So a $10K stock requires only a $2K hedge.
Foreign Currncy deposits
You must Dynamically Value Hedge (DVH) all FC deposits. You need USD $1K to hedge a USD $200K deposit equivalent of foreign currency. You will make money on the appreciating currency, the currency deposit interest and the DVH. For AUD or Aussie dollar you can expect to double the returns and increase from 7% pa to, say, 15%pa.
Have a look at this example for AUD/USD DCI.
http://www.hsbc.com.sg/1/2/personal/investments/dual-currency-plus
For a USD $100K investment, you stand to make USD $630 if AUD/USD goes up and lose USD $430 if the AUD/USD goes down.
In DCI, you earn the enhance yield because you wrote a put option on AUD/USD for the bank and the premium you earn from writing the put option is added to the deposit rate.
All this is just an elaborate dress up of the simple fact that you are long on AUD/USD. The deposit rate is typically orrelevant compared to the money you can win when the rate increases and lose when the rate decreases. You pay the bank high costs for the masquarade.
There is a smarter, safer and profitable way.
If you want to be one month long on AUD/USD, simply deposit AUD for the equivalent of USD $100K and Dynamically Value Hedge your AUD/SGD.
You will return the 7% pa rate for one month plus an additional 5 to 10% per month for the DVH with little downside risk. You can expect to earn in the order of USD $5 to $10K at the end of the month. This is more than 5 to 10 tomes what you would earn on DCI.
DCI’s are normally held for shorter periods otherwise you run into disproportionate risk associated with writing long term puts. With DVH, the reverse is true. The longer you hold the better and more consistent are the returns. DVH returns beat DCI by a factor of 5 to 10 multiples.
To “having work till we die”, we can simply say “No!” Know that there is life after CPF and annuities.
DCI is an important investment instrument for all of us. But it is flawed and expensive.
If you think the discussion on DCI and DVH sounds gobbledogook, I am prepared to give a talk on the subject. Hope that Charles can join me to make the DCI case.
This can be a life changing experience for all. Any change from Work sentence for life can’t be all that bad.
Hi KT @ 32,
I don’t know anything about DVHs. I have never tried CFDs so I don’t know what are the transactions costs and how efficient or liquid are the spreads.
Generally I tend to move slowly as I am getting older and slower. I am quite satisfied with my current portfolio mgmt so I try not to ‘fix’ it. It is not the most efficient, modern, but it works for me and my comfort level is high.
Generally speaking I do not recommend DCIs or any form of structured deposits. There is no transparency for the option pricing. I also believe in spending more time to think out a strategy or plan and if I am convinced, I would place my bets without any hedges. I then monitor the position and change if necessary. Granted this is easier in a slower moving mkt than the 24/7 fx mkt.
If I thought this was the end of the equity mkt, I would explore new instruments to replace my portfolio, but right or wrong, this is the position I am now in.
But I don’t mind spending some time looking at your DVH or your ATM.
Terence, I tried to explain long, short and, DCIs. I am asking KT to explain his DVHs. Mary C has said ATM= Ample Time and Money and soon others will explain highs, lows, resistance, supports, crests and valleys etc. We will all be enlightened soon enough. BTW have you heard the joke about the Automated Tampon Machine, another ATM?
Cheers and good luck to all investors, active and passive.
Charles @#35
Wish you are as good an entrepreneur as you are an investor.
Why serve only half the population with the Tampon version of ATM.
Think about an Automated Toilet Massager. There is a separate girl and boy version. It is non-interchangeable in function. So all the losers out there have to buy a pair instead of one. “His and Hers”.
No, Tim. Don’t rush. Be careful not to use the wrong one. Otherwise, you may find a stick up your …..
Hee-hee.
Hi KT
1) Can you share three key features of your ATM and three operating parameters and logics concisely with crystal clear transparency ?
2) Now you introduce a new DVH.
Can you also share its three salient features and concisely its three operating principles and logics with straightforward transparency?
3) Can you also tell us the actual realised value of Alicia’s prize using your ATM during SHC March monthly meeting after our 1st flea market on Saturday, 15 March 2008?
It is more than one month already.
Warmest regards.
Hope you would able to so, KT, please.
Hi KT
Please enlighten us on your DVH… yes, let’s have a session as you kindly suggested at @34.
Thanks and look forward to it!
Kenneth
Beautiful lah, Kenneth.
Like to hear the facts of both ATM and DVH (see # 37 & 39); and their tangible realised results.
Hi KT, please enlighten and do so in May, OK ?
Cheers,
I will organize a forum and invite contributions from various speakers on the alternate investment ideas auitable for senior years. We can do this after the May 1st flea market.
The SHC flea market is one of the three ways to manage your finances. It is the small business and entrepreneurship option.
Between Charles and myself we have explored in depth the DCI and DVH options which is representative of what you would get into if you want to be a successful investor. If you don’t have appetite for this type of action then you are advised to pursue the entrepreneur option seriously. Start by joining the flea market. We are there to help you start at least for now. But you must be prepared to be helped.
Otherwise, throw away your retirement plan and file your resignation letter with your undertaker if you intend to stick around here.
Yes, you have choices. But you must choose. Sad but true.
Like all good things, we have an expirydate. With the advent of the new flea market, old prizes are either collected or gone.
Otherwise, the investment today may snowball into a $B in 50 years.
Then how?
hee-hee
Hi KT at #41 & 42, and comments from #37 to 40
1) Can you come to the point : a) state three features of your ATM and DVH b) three operating parameters/logics of your ATM and DVH.
Please focus on ATM and DVH and share the key points (3 features and 3 operating logics) concisely with full transparency.
Believe they ought not be complicated and difficult to understand unlike rocket science. They should have clear logics, linkage, flow-thorugh and meaning with audit trail.
2) In your #42, believe you refer to the prize Alicia collected with reference my comment at #37 para 3.
Can you be straightforward and transparent without beating around the bush.
What is Alicia’s prize final realized value using your ATM during 15 March 2008 SHC meeting/ 1st flea market?
Otherwise, will take (1) and (2) to be “vague and are still at developmental/conceptual stage”.
3) All products and systems have specifications, so should ATM and DVH too.
4) Spore former remiser king, Peter Lim, took less than 20 years to become a billionaire investing in equities.
Thanks in advance and warmest regards
Correction : flow through (1) para 3.
Hi KT and Mary C,
Here’s the ATM joke.
This guy walks into a toilet in Japan and the attendant briefs him. “Hafta youoo finished neh, youoo pless nombor 1 button neh, den nombor 2 button neh. No pless ATM button neh, asoneh? “OK neh”, the guy replies. When he finished his ‘business’ the guy looks around and all he sees are Japanese instructions but he remembers the simple 1, 2 instructions. So he proceeds with button no. 1. Immediately jets of water squirt out and cleans his butt just in the right places. He mutters a word of thanks for Japanese quality and attention to detail. Then he goes to button 2. Immediately gusts of warm air is blown to dry his butt. He is mightily impressed and wants to linger in the toilet to see what other technological feats the Japs have. Alas, all the signs are in Japanese and he can’t make hed or tail of them. Convinced there is more he ‘plesses’ the third ATM button.
A painful scream is heard from his cubicle and this continues till the attendant comes in to check. The attendant says, “ho, no, no plessing ATM button neh, no plessing.” “What is ATM?” the guy asks weakly.
“ATM is eh, hotomartic tampon marchine, to take out tampon”
Ah so deska neh.
ATM, DVH, DCI, managed funds, structured Investments, superannuation, foreign currency, real estate and ??? (er nai cun)
….
All will be revealed at forum.
There are many alternative investment schemes in the market. One cannot cover everything. You select, we will help to analyse. Who knows? Its like prospecting gold. Sometimes you hit dirt rich. (Look out esepcially when a new FI and/or launches a new class of instruments.)
Keep the instruments coming. Let’s share creative and alternate financing schemes.
Value Investment and Value Trading are two different disciplines.
The former is the main WWC (Weapons of Wealth Creation) of Warren, Peter Lim, Oei HL et al. The latter is what the rest of us can and is trying doing. Some better, some miserably. It depends again on whether you are going in bare hands kung fu or armed with a WWC like ATM.
Book worming through the literature for the lives and sins of the rich and famous will get you nowhere unless you are in their league.
Just ask yourself. Over and above equities are you into private equity too? This is the nuke in the arsenal.
Hi KT at # 47 and request at #43
Would you like to answer concisely with transparency what is your ATM and the 3 questions at # 43 ?
You have been talking about ATM and have not able to answer the three straightforward enquiries. I asked because I am keen to know.
Please do so without beating around the bushes again or bring in new topics to distract. TY .
Warmest regards
Charles Chua, #45
arigato gozaimasu. I’ve heard that one before, but it’s worth another laugh. :-)
Reminder to KT at #48 on ATM and DVH
Calling xxxxx times : ATM and DVH
Cheers,
Hi all,
Getting started: How to Trade Foreign Currencies (Forex)
Date: 8 May Thrus 7pm to 8pm
Venue: Boon Keng Investor Centre
Speaker: Ms Serene Loi
Attend this FREE seminar. Limited seats
call 62990555 or email boonkeng@philip.com.sg
If you are not a Philip account, you have to say that you are considering to open an account.
Find out why Forex is the hot topic in today’s financial market. Learn the basics on applying fundamental and technical analysis and the essentials of risk management in Forex Trading.
It is good only to understand some basics but not enough to know to trade, but is the first step to understand forex trading.
It is a little too far for me to be there but for those who are staying at Jurong will be a good place to start learning some basics for free. But dont commit yet to open a Forex account to trade as they charge commission for each trade.
Ron @#51
Everybody should attend free seminars to upgrade one self.
Before you sign up with Philips
(a) Note that trading forex generally has no commission costs. You trade one-way with 2 to 3 pips spread and that is all with most brokers.
(b) Leverage is 100:1 to 200:1. This is important to maximise returns on any trading.
(c) You should not lose more than your capital with other brokers. You should not have to pay more for “guaranteed” stops. Philips use to give negative margin calls ie you can lose more than your entire capital and is required to top up.
Scorebot is booked almost every night with previews and courses on ATM. Tomorrow (Tues) is a special presentation to a group of experienced traders and trainers. We will go into exotics.
You are welcome to join if you wish. But I may not be able to take basic questions. You will have to follow what you can.
For SHC in general I can only plan a DVH and ATM session after the SHC flea market on 1st May.
KT@53
Thanks for your reply re DVH and ATM.
Does it mean that you will be presenting session on 1st May after the SHC flea market? i.e. at 8pm or 9pm?
OR Some date after 1st May yet to be determined?
Beautiful, KT at #53.
Best greetings to you.
Thanks for your willingness to share your ATM and DVH.
Is your sharing be at 8pm tomorrow (1 May )after the flea market at Scorebot? Then we would be coming for our dinner stroll.
I would be seeking for deep straightforward answers to three key fundamental questions of your ATM and DVH.
Hope this gives you ample time.
Warmest regards
A @ #55
Where was everybody last night from SHC. We have many seasoned traders sign up. The experienced can tell the difference immediately.
The side show for the flea market is on home entrepreneurship. How to set up a global business with “No Money Down”.
ATM course starts on Mon next week. Last call to get on to the ATM early. No risk too. For now only investment required is USD $1K. This is your own money. The course fee is fully refundable if you don’t like it. No questions asked. Test it out yourself. See if you can switch on and make money for your retirement. Beat PIG (your Personal Inflation Gap) once and for all.
The only request is for you to tell the rest your results. The good, the bad and the ugly. The truth.
BTW. We have live trading 100K + accounts running real time on screens rounf the clock in public display at Scorebot. Our own money. No bluff. Check it out yourself.
Hi KT
If what your ATM really can do as claimed by you.
Would invest USD 1K (without any liability)to reap 100 times realised tangible returns within one year.
All I need are to know and understand their key features and no liability or any need to top-up.
I would share publicly the true final realised value of my USD 1K within one year.
If not, would expect the return of USD 1, 000 from you in full within 7 days on request, no question asked and no excuse from you.
Warmest regards
A @ #57
Please go down and clarify until you fully understand. I have written/spoken about this many, many times. The USD 1K is your own money and your own account which you used to trade. The course fee is $2,960 which is refundable, no questions asked, for one month for you.
In case that you are not familiar about the benefits of a micro-account, let me tell you about market practise here. With most brokers and banks you have to open an account paying in $10K to $50K to start. Because many of the local accounts are Standard Accounts the minimum amount you need to trade consistently and safely is USD $100k. Comapre this then to USD $1K which you can trade consistently and safely with ATM.
All I ask is for you to tell all at the end of the month. Take your time too. Just in case, the first week is fluke. Week-by-week show your own experience and results.
Good or bad you would have rendered a great service to all.
Thank you, I am attending the presentation by Stella Robinson this Sunday.
Am always to learn new investing tools.
Am sure she can answer the 3 key fundamental questions given her many years in her Automated Trading Systems.
Need to have key knowledge. understanding and practical wisdom before one invests in anything.
KT at #58
Would you write once and for all, concise answers to my three questions at $43 and #48.
Am always keen to learn new investing tools and methods.
Thank you very much.
Andrew
ATM is purely an education course where you learn and obtain help how to trade various strategies.
At the end of the course, you should be able to trade without effort. Simply switch on and go to sleep. You can collect your profits, if any, at the end of the day. Completely automatic.
Other than the above, we make no claims for the ATM. We disclaim any and all liabilties. You should know better than to ask or suggest otherwise.
There are no guarantees in life. You can only test and check the track record/performance of any system that you are taught by doing what you have been taught.
If it benefits you, keep it. If not return within the month for a full course refund. We have nothing to do with your P&L on your trading account which you open with your own broker. You trade at your own risk.
Don’t worry. Don’t push yourself to do this. By end of next month, there will be enough graduates from ATM to give a true and fair assessment of its capabilities or lack of it.
If it sucks, you can take the full credit of having told everybody so. But take the other extreme. Give it time and benefit of doubt to show whether the methodology works. Imagine how many members will benefit from ATM if it works. I do not know of any other consistent investment approach alternatives that can possibly help to beat your PIG (Personal Inflation Gap).
Do you?
Knn, KT, you do believe a lot in “if it’s music, play on” so have a lot of time playing the harp to cow and consequently got dragged into endless cow beh cow bu…..
I am heading to yr Scorebot 2mrw in the early evening so why dont you save yr the best of your music for me and before that, the Fleamart vendors & their customers? Even if we cant sing we do know how to hum along esp if it’s the song Donna Donna Donna………….
Hi KT,
I would like to find out more of your DVH and ATM black-boxes. What time approximately will you be giving your talk?.
I don’t trade FX and still have no intention to do so as I earlier mentioned, but consider this as part of my continuing education in case I need a new product or income stream (Heaven forbid).
I am a novice in fx and will appreciate your patience.
I can share with you or anyone else who might be interested, some ‘case studies’ of others who ‘made it’ in the stock mkt. As always this is not an invitation to invest and I declare myself to be a vested participant currently. Only for those who have any interests.
Cheers
Tim @ #62
You’re buying or selling?
You are right. To be misunderstood and abuse is the great price we pay for trying to do great good.
Paraphasing Casablanca, Rick to Ilsa in the famous aubade (french : parting) scene
“And you never will. But I’ve got a job to do, too. Where I’m going, you can’t follow. What I’ve got to do, you can’t be any part of…. I’m no good at being noble, but it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of … little people don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you’ll understand that. Now, now… Here’s looking at you kid.”
See you at the flea mart.
Charles @ #63
See #56
The talk planned for the flea market is on home entrepreneurship. How to set up a global business with “No Money Down”. About 7pm.
But if there is interest we’ll run through the DVH and ATM on the same day. Anyway you can always ask questions on the day whilst we flea marketing the stalls.
Hi KT @64,
Thanks for your reply. Who is giving the talk on “Home Entrepreneurship”?
Will try to go about 5pm if ok with you. Cheers and good luck, as always.
KT, you run a biz and sell a concept. There hv been happy winners and sad losers. Fair in a zero sum game no matter how many hours of tutelege given and received. If you hv a system – reliable but not fool-proof – you start off confident. But it helps within this SHC fraternity if you’ll always be the mister frank, leaving nothing unearthed, unsaid. That’s fair too. Yr investors who happen to lose will be sad obviously but not bitter, and they’ll still kiss you for having been there.
Me a buyer for tonite’s top-billed Chelsea vs Liverpool. A grudge match, a cruncher. Common sense tells me to pick Chelsea which has not lost in 80 home games, with Liverpool not scoring in the last 7 matches played there.
I defy sense and sensibility………yes, Liverpool, I join in singing yr song “You Will Not Walk Alone………..”
Take a small flutter on Liverpool if you care. But do pls tell yr wife first.
Hi KT @# 65
May close stall at 7p.m. and attend the talk on home entrepreneurship for about half an hour. Hope speaker is the time-conscious type and not in the habit of digressing from topic.
JassmineT
Hi all
A gentle reminder:
Tomorrow (1st May) is Flea mart day at Bali Lane and we the vendors hope to see as many of you there as possible. Do come to this rendezvous of SHC members.
The flea mart starts at 3p.m. and ends about 8p.m. The early visitors will have the best pickings, so do come early.
See you tomorrow and tks for your support.
JassmineT (coordinator)
Hi all flea mart vendors
Tomorrow is THE DAY of sale. Remember to turn up at 3p.m. with your barang2. lol!
Look for your table number, lay your table cloth, display your items and start selling.
Vendors who have not made payment, I assume you would be paying in cash to me. I had hoped to avoid collecting money, but …
Ok, we are all ready, right? See you tomorrow, then.
JassmineT
RonW ,
Oh dear, my apologies for posting the flea mart messages @ #70, #71 on your thread. I wonder how it happened. Hope you don’t mind.
(Wonder if I could cut and paste?)
JassmineT
Hi Jasmine,
No worries no harm done, the bottom line is still to make money. This exchange is goods with S$ , i dont think it can be considered Forex trading but a good start. You have good business acumen, so should join us and learn that many more principles can be used to good advantage. One of it is you can sell what you do not have, and even sell 100 that which you do not have , instead of only 1 at this flea market. Secondly you do not have to wait hours to sell 1, you can sell anytime someone wants to buy 100 of what you do not have so you earn 1oo times more.
The idea like i say is timing and buying and selling what you do not have at the right place anticipating what people want to buy and sell. Get the picture now ?
Oh mind, hope I did not get you into more trouble now. I can visualise your eyes rolling with excitement, making 100 times more profit selling what I do not even have, sound easy and good. The problem , is that sometimes you can buy 100 of what you do not need and no body needs then you have to sell a lower cost losing 100 times whatever reduction you have to offer for someone to buy it?
One other good thing is you can stop your loss at what you are prepared to lose to take that gamble, sort of insured price to lose. But better than the flea market is that there are ways, trends and graphs to help you know and understand how to make a good sale or buy goods that you can sell at a good price, anytime you are ready to take the profit. All this can be done in the comfort at your home on on your mobile when you travelling and also do not have to pay for table charge or overhead to KT or Scoreboard or having to hunt or invest in goods. But really to be good in this you have to good education, discipline and coaching just like in any business and even appoint a consultant.
Agree with Ronald at #72 with basic good education, sound discipline and high emotional quotient in financial investing.
To be successful, one needs three fundamental cores:
a) Deep knowledge, b) Sound Understanding and c) Practical wisdom – discipline and timely action
All these need constant effort in continuing education, steady emotions/mental strength and good habits and healthy discipline.
Learn from any mistake(s) and move on for greater success.
The flea market is now up and running at Scorebot, 18 Bali Lane.
So go down and support your fellow members.
Talk is scheduled in the evening on Home Entrepreneurship – How to start a global business starting on a tabletop. No money down. Just passion and hard work.
Today flea market. Tomorrow the world.
Hi Ronald, I want to join your FX trading group. I am now a full time Stock and Future trader. I been doing these part-time for the pass 6 months. I just lost my job and now doing these full time. Future, Forex and Stock trading is a skill where we silver-hair people should pick up.. why? this is skills we can get better as we grow old and most of all, we can continue to earn money thru this activities.