This is now your baseline defense for your financial independence in your retirement years.
CPF is now all locked up. The only thing you can probably take away this lifetime is your annuity payments.
Will these be Golden or Bronze Spoon years. Will there even be a spoon at all? Let’s share and compare notes.
Disclaimer : I have no commercial interest in any of the annuity funds or companies mentioned herein. If I do I will state so.
Here’s a benchmark program from NTUC Income. Share if you know of others especially anything better.
“With effect from 1 July 2008, CPF Board has increased the minimum sum from $99,600 to $106,000. This amount is set aside in the member’s Retirement Account.
You can enjoy your golden years by using this amount to buy the Classic Annuity from NTUC Income. This will guarantee you a monthly income for life.
For a Male, age 55, you will be guaranteed a minimum monthly amount of $605.45 and may increase to $723.55 when you start to draw down from age 64. This amount increases each year upon bonus declaration.”
So you have it.
Rule of thumb. Every $100K of annuity (CPF or cash), gives you $600 per month. $500K implies $3K per month.
Is this enough. Can you afford to retire. Can you have the lifestyle of your choosing. Is paradise really for the after-life.
Hi KT,
In two years time, I will be 55. So, this means I will get $605.45 per month, from age 62. Gosh, that’s a lot of money. Enough for one or two economy Sin/Bkk flights.
From your many Posts and comments on this website, I see you are not a firm believer of annuities. Neither do I read any interests in stocks or commodities. You are no gambler. You enter only when you see a 51% chance of winning. You prefer to dwell on battle-field size flea markets, ATMs, and en-bloc sales.
How about we coordinate a day, when you and interested members can talk about investmenting. Members can have their topics, and we put up a schedule of these talks. From the July monthly gathering, I notice there is keen interest in investing, altho most prefer not to discuss, as they think the subject is taboo’d.
I think you have highlighted an important and meaningful thread. Is $605.45 sufficient after 62? Or should one continue working after 62.
Investing has its risks. We keep this subject only to those who are interested. I think we have many knowledgeable people in SHC.
Let’s start by you fixing a date. Make sure you are free and available. We can have a schedule from morning till night. Members can choose when they would like to participate.
Terence Seah
Question:
Is it better to leave the minimum sum with CPF and receive an annuity from CPF or to withdraw the minimum sum and buy an annuity from NTUC?
My view:
If the annuity from CPF can last 20 years, (by then annuitant will be aged 82 ), I’ll prefer to leave my minimum sum with CPF. Tho NTUC’s annuity is for life, the amount($) one gets is much less than the annuity($)from CPF.
If one is still alive and kicking at age 82 and the minimum sum is exhausted, consider downgrading one’s house/apartment. I’m sure this source of income can last the retiree at least another 10 yrs.
Is $600+ a month enough for a retiree. YES! Just live SIMPLY.
What we should be concerned about is our health (ill health will take away a huge chunk of our money). So live simply (but meaningfully) and be contented with our lot.
My two cents’ worth.
Jassmine,
During the 1st SHC gathering, some 3 years ago, we conducted a discussion and seminar on the topic “How much does one need to retire in Singapore?”. To my surprise, $2,000 per month was expected by many of those present. A handful considered $800 per mth as livable.
I have not tried living on this amount yet, altho I would think that if one has a roof over the head, then $600 a month from 62 to 82 would be sufficient.
Jassmine, I think you are a good example. Now, that you ask this question, I can safely assume you are way before 55.
Given a choice in two years time, I think I shall stay with CPF.
Terence Seah
Hi Jasmine
Base on your “2 Cts worth”, I would suggest leaving the CPF sum in NTUC’s annuity is much worth while. This annuity in NTUC as you quoted,is last for life, even though the sum you receive maybe slightly lower than CPF. As you stated, the CPF fund will be exhausted by age 82, selling your asset should be considered only as the last resort.
As we know the lifespan nowadays goes further than 82 yrs, with medical advances, treatments and health supplements, life will go on and on, who knows, one day l02 yrs will be the norm.
You will find the Govt. is now embarking on the course of “ACTIVE AGEING” ,several groups are there now embarking on this programme. The retirement age is now going from 62, to 65 then 68……and ??????
RonLai
Hi Terence,
I do agree wif those who said we need $2K a mth to survive here. You were saying that $600-$700 would be sufficent if one has a roof over one’s head? Unless U need not pay SP, property tax, conservancy fees etc. Wif @ least 3.7% inflation every yr, what does $700 means in 10 – 20 yrs time? Unless you have a lot of savings & other means of investment then it would not be enough.
By the way, I did not buy annuity from NTUC too. Tho, I’ve a friend who’s wif NTUC Income and she kept pestering me to buy.
Don’t think I’ll live that long live. Ha..ha..
Hi RonL @# 6
Do u have the actual figures of the amount of annuity paid by CPF and NTUC or other insurance companies? I think based on $90000, CPF annuity pays $700+ (female) and NTUC pays $400+. If these figures are quite accurate, then I think the diff between the annuity payouts is quite substantial.
The second point is if at age 82, I need money to survive ‘comfortably’, and even tho I may have some savings in the bank, I’ll still think it’s time to downgrade my ‘home’. If there is reverse morgage, then it’s ‘ideal’. (I don’t have to move).
There was a study that showed while people are generally living longer (beyond 80), the last 10 years are spent in sickness!. In this scenario, you’ll have to downgrade earlier.
Here’s to good health.
Cheers,
Hi Terence n Catherine H @# 5 & 7
For people who have been working all their lives and drawing a ‘good’ pay, at retirement time, I’m sure it’s common to have savings of at least 100k.
Based on this scenario, besides the annuity of $600+ from CPF, you can withdraw at least $400 from your savings for more than 20 yrs. You can use this source of cash to pay your taxes..small luxuries ..etc and go for holidays.
Meanwhile you’ll have casual income from part-time work (not to supplement the $600) but to add to the nest egg so that at 80, you’ll STILL HAVE some savings.
Cheers,
I have 2 annuity schemes which is already giving me about $900 per month. Plus currently I am still getting a salary. As such there is no problem at the moment.
After next year, my annuity, plus the money I have from progressive maturing insurance policies and some savings I have can give me a $3000 income per month over the next 20 years.
However money is not all that we require for a happy retirement, We need to be healthy, have a companion, good friends and a hobby or something to do to keep us busy, both mentally and physically.
My wife has passed away some four years ago and I need more friends. That us why I join the Silverhairsclub.
Hope I can really meet more friends in the club.
Cat @ #7
Here’s what’s left of your $700 in 10/20 years based on 3.7%/10% inflation rates. (To be precise we should use the net number or the Personal Inflation Gap (PIG) which is the difference between the average inflation rate and the risk free deposit rate currently at 0.8%.)
Annual Inflation rate…..3.70%…10.00%
Principle sum……………$700……$700
Year
10………………………..$480……$244
20………………………..$329……$85
The reason why I am putting up the simulation for 10% is that I don’t see how you get 3.7% when the govt is already admitting to 7% inflation rate. Even my dog food has gone up more.
NTUC groceries is not clocking under this rate. Where do you shop?
But take the big picture. Is $700 per month really enough even with a roof above your head? How many heads are you supporting with this annuity.
I don’t know about you. With $85 per month, I won’t be able to even feed and maintain my dogs in 20 years time. Their pedicure alone costs $30 at current price.
“I would think that ………$600 a month from 62 to 82 would be sufficient. Jassmine, I think you are a good example.”
Haha, can Jass be this old? She looks a sweet 16 to me.
I dont think I will live beyond 60 and so I’ll have a lesser problem. Tell me, KT, how shall i do my CPF planning? Can I tell those guys that, look here, I have only 8 more years to live, let me have my money and go dancing with Danz and prancing with KT……..let me enjoy the twilight of my years in the way I know best, dont teach me how to spend my $ and worry me with nominations for the bulk of the money I dont get to pamper myself with……………
Hi KT,
TQ for the enlightenment. Maybe I’m behind time where inflation is concerned. So looks like,I better worked till
67 @ least.
Inflation 3.7% was given to me by NTUC Income a few back yrs back when I attended a talk by CPF board.
Alredi seeing signs of dementia. Ha..ha..
Ronald W,
See U in court this Sun 27/7 @ 12pm.?
Hi,anyone can visit the CPF website to have a better under-standing about retirement,etc. I think it comes down to your health,lifestyle and financial commitment once you retire.
KT The subject of annuity / cpf is timely and unending.
Timely- because for those who are 51 and above, is almost assured that the first drawdown is 65 yrs old.
There is one grp who are 55 this yr will draw down age 64.
These grps have to decide whether to leave the minimum funds in cpf or buy an annuity. Of course they can leave the minmum in CPF and also buy an annuity.
To take $900 for 20 yrs or $600 until eternity
Unending- because the goal post keep changing- 55,60,62,64,65 and AKAN DATANG, SELAMAT DATANG. For those who are 50 and below , the minimum sum and medisafe will most likely increase. The draw down date will be push forward beyond 65 – long Live !!!!!
We can have a discussion and share ideas and information.
Those passed 55 and having made their election can share with us their decision, rightly or wrongly.
As Tim have 8 years to go, no need to crack your head. drinks on me
Sometime last yr, I posted a satirical comment/joke on cost of living.It was meant to lighten our stressful . day. It WAS a joke THEN,today it is a FACT. Terence,charlesWee and Yew Kong can remember THE HUMOUR.perhaps wTerence can have this humour reposted again and you decide.
Lets meet soon
Hi Terence,
Now that you are famous, look for opportunities of taking care of big bungalows or condos that we can be care takers as part of retirement jobs while staying at cheaper places like Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam or China.
It can also operate as service center ( concierge ) as mentioned in the papers, where the rich are willing to pay top dollar.
Maybe we can start a call centre now, as we have members all over Singapore. For a start we can provide baby sitting for children and adults right as there are many retirees around who dont mind doing such jobs right ??
Hi KT @# 11
If you sow wild oats now, for sure you’ll have more than two mouths to feed at your retirement. Hmm no wonder you’re worried whether 3K annuity is enough for you.
To live ‘comfortably’ on $700/mth, one’s lifestyle must be simple. You can have a dog, but no pedicure for you or dog. From your figures, in 20 yrs’ time, $700 = $85. You ask – is this enough? I ask – where are u in 20 yrs’ time – on or under ground?
If suay2/heng2 one is still alive and mobile at 82, cash your goldmine – downgrade or reverse morgage your house/apartment.
Keep healthy; enjoy a simple life.
Cheers,
Jas @ # 17
Broadband and cable alone runs in at $80 per month. Are we suppose to pull a chair up on our neighbour’s front door and watch his TV from the outside?
Or do we switch off the lights early, pretending to be out whilst in actual fact trying to save utilities.
With fixed income, inflation is a wealth deflator. If your money doesn’t grow, then it is a certainty you will arrive tomorrow at today’s forecast.
Tim @ # 12
No tears. There’s always a way. Be imaginative with your assets.
Flaunt your looks and marry rich. Best to marry into old money. Triggered to fail and leave you with all the money to jetset around the world.
Invest in a proper makeover. Don’t take photos on the steps of City Hall. Wear clothes so tight that it looks like painted on. And unbutton your shirt down to the navel.
Tough? Don’t think you’ll pass the screen test. No problem.
Join us tomorrow Wed 7pm at Scorebot. We will be reviewing some really clever ways to live it up on your CPF.
Hee-hee
Hi Ronald #16,
You have raised this topic a few times. Altho there may be opportunities, as outlined by you, I would rather leave it to members who would be prepared to take your idea further. You should consider taking the lead, if you feel strongly this is a good commercial direction.
Terence Seah
KT Wong # 19
“Flaunt your looks and marry rich. Best to marry into old money. Triggered to fail and leave you with all the money to jetset around the world.”
Wah, find me a rich old man who is about to kick the bucket then. Or was the advice meant for Tim only? Imagine Tim married to a rich old hag about to kick the bucket. Hahaha! Tim would probably tear his hair out within a week and kick the bucket himself!
There are different profiles of retirees. If you desire to be a rich retiree, to continue with pre-retirement lifestyle, then annuity of $700/mth is not enough.
But for ordinary people, employees all their lives, drawing ‘good pay’ worrying about how big a nest egg is enough for a ‘comfortable’ retirement, and the issue of whether one can survive on $700/mth annuity as retiree, I say yes. The proviso is a simple life-style.
But this mthly budget does not mean the retiree has no other sources of income/assets. Leave the other $/assets alone and dip into them when you want to have a ‘splash’. Of course these fixed $ will decrease… but slowly. The $ pool won’t be depleted -the simple lifestyle will see to it – in your lifetime.
And there may be casual earnings to ‘enrich’ the simple life-style, if the retiree chooses to do part-time work.
Out of the rat race now and a new attitude of detachment from material things…life is peaceful.
My personal take on the topic.
cheers
TimL @# 12
I think to go under ground at 60 is a little too early. Add another 10 years lah.
Anyway you can withdraw all your $ in the ordinary a/c of your CPF at age 55 and go enjoy a second spring. Then if you’re still hale and hearty at 60, you can look forward to annuity from CPF of $600+ and a simple life like for durians, go to RRR to pick. Can be very fun and definitely a healthy activity.
Cheers
Hi Jassmine,
…..Is $600+ a month enough for a retiree. YES! Just live SIMPLY.
Are you sure ?
Even now, 2008 I found $600 is NOT sufficient.
Assuming:- A basic calculation on per month basis
EXPENDITURE per month.
$ 10 spent for food alone = 30 x 10 = $300.
HDB SP = $100 +
HDB Conservancy charge = $ 100+
Mobile phone = $ 30+
Broadband Starhub = $ 60 +
MRT Transport = $60+
Entertainment fees ( movies,SHC functions,KOK ) = 50+
Prudential Insurance = $220+
Dog food, vitamins , dog shampoo = $80 +
To LIVE a life SIMPLY would have cost = more than $1000+
That is NOT counting tours twice a yr. No new clothings.
Poor thing – Has to sacrifice No Vietnam tours ,no dogs,no new computers , etc….
With $600 + Mana Boleh SURVIVE ?
Unless, we are living in a kampong , eatcook nasi lemak ,eat homegrown veggies , /roti prata every day and munch kangkong ,sleep early to make babies and use kerosene lamp and drink well water.
Then ,you can LIVE ” luxuriously” on $600+ .
Any comments pls ?
My 8 cts. worth.
Hi Jassmine Teo / others,
Forget to mention abt medical expenditure.
Can AFFORD to DIE but CANNOT AFFORD to get SICK( Hospitalzn n Surgery esp. for Cancer patients, it will cost a BOMB.)
Touch wood. Touch wood. Drive away all the ” SIEW YAN “
Chow Weng, it’s great to read you again. You’re another butty I hv not seen for a while, and missed.
Ron-W, in short, you hv proposed that the adults in us do baby-sit. So let’s imagine Steven sitting next to a bawling baby, and his dog popping its head from under the bed and looking up in wonder. Steven cant breast-feed the infant if he’s hungry or involve him in SHC acivities if the baby is oyunger than 45. The saving grace may be, once the baby grows up, he can take care of Steven and us.
Jass, to bid my last farewell at 60 is fair. In 3 years’ time (if I get to live this long), I will collect my cpf, lavish it on myself over the next 5 years and then die a happy man, leaving the world’s worries to others who believe that there will be many years living on annuities till 855.
Steven, you do spend a lot. Go back to the drawing board & rework yr numbers and start asking yrself questions.
Why is a toilet paper made with 6 sides? If you hadnt been wasteful, yr 1 piece of toilet paper cd last you a week.
Dog food. Let yr dog out of yr house and roam the bins for food. That was how dogs of the bygone grew up and if you missed yr yesteryears, so do yr dog. And why spend $ on bathing yr dog when Town Councils carry out void deck washing twice a week and they’re generous with soap too?
Entertainment fee? Be the one to entertain and you collect the fee, turning an expense item into an income.
KT @19
I think u have raised a very relevant topic as we approach retirement. For most of us, I think we shd be OK financially provided no major illness, even with medical insurance. Personally, SHC can propose to CPF to allow members to withdraw their $$$ from Retirement A/C once a member suffers from some major illness to help supplement medical cost when medisave is depleted. It is just not logical to have a healthy R/A when u can hardly afford medical treatment any more!
btw, is there any possibility of having monthly meeting held on a Saturday afternoon instead of the usual weekday nites which i have difficulty attending. Perhaps Terence can consider.
Henry
Hi all,
I see some very active and ‘hot’ discussions on this subject. Whether you need $600 or $6000 per mth, it all boils down to the individual concerned. Ever heard of the saying:”A simple rice grain feeds a thousand”?
I see plenty of intelligent comments posted in this thread, enough for one to make his/her own decision. At the end of the day,”Ren suan pu ru tien suan” – a Chinese saying. One never knows when his time is up… :)
I say,live life now to the fullest and meaningfully(I don’t mean to squander),albeit with some idea of a plan.
Hi all
Interesting posts, expectation of each individual is different, depending on your background and your resources (e.g. asset or children), the amount needed per month is thus different from person to person.
To survive on $600 per month would be very tough if you have to pay for everything in the home. But if $600 is our monthly allowance and everything else is taken care off, then this situation is much better.
Agree with David Shung, live life now -enjoy; keep friendships and relationships alive.
Cheers!
Mary @ #21
Old is easy. Plenty “lau ah pek” and “chi ko pek” around.
It is the rich part that needs some working on.
Don’t give up horse on Tim. You might not be invited to his yacht reception somewhere in the Mediterranean. We are backing the old horse for a new trick. I have roped in Pat to tip. If Terence can, so can he.
Notice how nice and mellow he is nowadays. Almost polished. Makeover is under way. Stand in line and take your queue number.
Tell me if I am wrong.
Even with a house over your head paid for, $600 a month in 10 years means that you will literally be begging in the streets given current inflation rates. Don’t you have to find a soup kitchen somewhere or freeload on someone.
Work your numbers.
“Plenty “lau ah pek” and “chi ko pek” around”. What KT meant is, many are like him and many are like tim. We hv yet to find a hybrid of KT & tim i.e. a lau chi ko. Patrick-K comes very close if he doesnt talk………when he starts talking, he has no ending to do his chi-koing.
David-S, yes, “mo si zai ren, zhen si zai tien” (men plan, heaven approves). Apparently, there’s a CEO up there who is miserly in approvin more for the deprived and poor, but liberal with approving price hikes. He must hv been an elitist scholar.
There’s only so much one can do on belt-tightening; to do more will squeeze one’s last breath & life out. Who do we look to for help? The elected? They’re doing well and want to do better, to earn more. Goddd? Yes, we have new versions of Goddd housed under different roofs and in increasing denominations and manifestations thru many self-professed emissaries. At least one is under CAD probe.
I hv no desire to live longer than the time needed to spend what I have earned but kept in compulsory savings. Even that I am left at the mercy and vagaries of those who decide how, how much and when i cd take my money.
life is tough and that’s why KT has grown a tree outside Scorebot. You can sit up there and languish as you watch tourists come on shopping sprees as if everything expensive (to us) is free (to them). When you can no longer be sadder than sad, the Scorebot tree is for you to hang ourself from.
But before anyone goes, do take the Ah Q vow : “18 years’ later I shall return as a hao han……………..”
but if there’s a reincarnation for me, I’d love to return as a tortoise………………
As a newbie, very happy to view all comments regarding how much is enough. My only two cents worth is how to let money work harder for you.
Hi Steven @# 24
Pl refer to my post @ 22.
Looking at the breakdown of your expenditure, I’ll say yours is a grade A+ simple lifestyle, with some high maintenance luxuries.
There’s a lot of room for paring down should you want to downgrade to an A grade simple lifestyle.
Retirement lifestyle is a personal choice.
Cheers
Tim @# 26
Any contingency plans if the almighty CEO refuses to let you have your last farewell at 60? Don’t think of DIY, hor.
Is there is really a retirement whether you are rich enough or not, even if you are retired?
Well you still have to fight to keep fit, to keep motivated else imagine what happens if all your body parts retire including your mind? So I guess we all have to keep on woring in some way even if means at Macdonald as it may do may do more good than otherwise.
I have seen very senior people in USA, and Australia enjoying what they do even in very simple jobs but with a greater conviction than they were younger.
I guess that is what retirement is about enjoying yourself more while earning less, including respect, income and expecatations. Every smile that you can bring to someone else may light you up more than money ever did?
The latest John Hopkins reports says cancer is actually the retirement of the mind and body before its time. It is the lack or self love, respect and willingess to be happy with oneself especially when no one else seem to care, that is really the cancer of life.
SHC has for me been the catalyst, the ray of light for me, that many others too may need to help them discover that there is no giving up or retirement but to continue being happier with less, less money, lese relationship, less love ,etc. So if I fail to pass this concept that was passed to me when I first joined SHC in 2005 July, it just shows one forgets easily what one has benefit from to return in kind. I can only hope that I will change for the better and help others in future.
So in this respect I think the Sunday times did not deliver the essence of what SHC means to many of us.
I hope also that the concept of the founders will continue to attract more people to find their ray of light. Also that others will not either knowingly or accidentally be blocking or extinquishing that ray of hope that others may need more that you know.
SHC is not about retiring but discovering how to be a better person if not a more beautiful one and hopefully it brings you to where it will be more deserving for you in the end. Amen. Cheers
Hi Tim @ 32,
……but if there’s a reincarnation for me, I’d love to return as a tortoise………………
Why tortoise, Tim ? ( Cheong Man Full Kwai )?
Since you always enjoy talking “dirty” and love SXXX so much and also being branded as a humsup lo by chabors ,it is best next time when you “TAU TOIL ” you will return to be a HIGH CLASS female sxxxy P _ _ _ _ _ T_ _ E .
Welcome with ………………………..?
Dare to outbeat Annabelle Chong’s record of ( 369 )? ha! ha!
Important Technical Note:
We may not be making apple for apple comparisons. Most demographic studies on household expenditures, consumer spending and cost of living refer to household and not a single person or pax. We should also revert to this standard.
This is the fairest count. Think about it. For one household typically under one roof many things can be shared – toothbrushes, bed, pets, pedicures, food, maid services etc. The economies of sharing means that the cost per pax obviously drops if you pack more people under one household.
I think it is fair to assume that the average shared household is for two persons. So monthly per pax is for two persons sharing.
So we rephrase and ask everybody to check their positions. Let us have your revision if you feel that your views or numbers change if you are using your expenditure pattern on a typical household of two.
Steven @ #24
Excellent numbers for an eligible bachelor.
Is $600 pax enough for a shared household for two.
We need to find you a companion…..
Terence – emergency dating services required. Girls who can touch the basketball basket without jumping please stand to the right.
Hee-hee
Ron @ #36 says
“I guess that is what retirement is about enjoying yourself more while earning less, including respect, income and expecatations. Every smile that you can bring to someone else may light you up more than money ever did?”
“SHC has for me been the catalyst, the ray of light for me, that many others too may need to help them discover that there is no giving up or retirement but to continue being happier with less, less money, lese relationship, less love ,etc. So if I fail to pass this concept that was passed to me when I first joined SHC in 2005 July….”
Terence, are these the founding principles? To seek happiness with less of everything?
Have you guys factored in inflation. If we have less of everything now, we will be left with virtually nothing by 62. How to smile then?
Jass, I hv timed my biological clock to last till 60 and if that doesnt work, there’re enough options which so upset the hangman that he must noose me, Huh, the almighty CEO will be hopelessly helpless to stop me from seeking nirvana.
I read of anxiety if not fear, of not getting old but getting enough to eat & live a reeasnably decent life when we get old. So why stress myself and be seen by the young as another piece of dead wood and by the authorities as a surplus to requirements, and slowing everybody down when I cdnt walk fast enough to catch up?
We never asked to come but certainly we can choose to go when the odds are stacked heavily againt us.
Steven, 2 lives ago, I was the Sung poet Sotongball. Married to 5 wives, I lived happily, giving time to each wife once every weekday and on weekend, it was orgy time with all 5.
Then, returned as the diabolic Yamamoto I relished butchery. I return this life to atone for it. Hope it’s a complete pay-back.
Why tortoise? It’s a vegetarian and so wont hv to end another life to prolong its own life, With its home on its back, it doesnt need to worry abt mortgage payments. When bored, it can look out from its shell to see what’s happening outside, and then not understanding why this messy world can never put its own house in order, slips its head back and sleeps.
It goes on to live for a 100 years without having to set aside money for annuity or medical insurance or be fined for not paying erp gantry charges or insulting judges.
Be good and you too can be a tortoise in yr next life. Be bad and you’ll return as the tortoise’s unloved cousin – the turtle – but the gourmet’s love.
Tim @ #21 says
“I hv timed my biological clock to last till 60 ”
Promise?
OK guys. We “tumpang” life insurance and save the world. Say a great thank-you to Tim. How can we set up something turtle to remember you by.
Hmmm…. Steven, what’s that about the turtle soup restaurant for sale?
Hahaha!!
You guys!!…. still on this topic again!
If I were you, Steven, I’ll go to back to Malaysia. There the public hospitals only charge RM1.00 to a maximum RM5.00 for medical treatment. So, if you have a bypass which will cost S$50,000 or more in Singapore, it will only be RM5.00 in Malaysia. I hope you’ve not given up your citizenship.
More and more public institutions are being privatised in Singapore and with privatisation comes higher costs. Public transport companies must produce profits, pay full charges on road tax, ERP, petrol, GST, etc. So how can costs be low?
I’ve just come back from Malacca and noted that buses only pay half the toll fare. I was told that seniors travel at a discount on trains and even MAS flights! Now there’s the difference.
Public hospitals in Singapore are run as profit centres; they compete with each other: Singhealth vs NHA. Costs to see a consultant run up to $100.00 for a senior fellow. Plus don’t forget the GST! And the x-rays, scans, tests, etc that you are submitted to… they all add up!
What I’m driving at is that it is no longer cheap to live in Singapore. An annuity of $600 per month may not see you thru the first week.
What to do about it? Isn’t that the $80,000 question?
Ken @ #43
Good idea.
Steven. Why don’t you start a SHC chapter in Malacca. There is a cluster of high rise flats overlooking the sea. Beautiful view. For sale and long term rental. Cheap and good value.
All we have to do is to block rent these units and re-let it to SHC members. The longer the period one stays out of Singapore, say up to 2 to 3 months per year, one will save a significant amount of money. We can also arrange to buy groceries for other members as we take turns to go into and out of the DIY retirement village or second home.
We can also obtain long stay visa. Even without subsidized rates, you spend a fraction of what it costs for insurance dental and medical.
In Singapore, not only are the medical procedures expensive, the system is becoming like a sick joke. We have even specialists now to do first diagnosis and to issue panadols.
Our GP’s now are becoming more like counter sales agents. All they do, seemingly even for the simplest of cases, is to redirect you to somewhere else for a scan, checkup; or to refer you to another specialist. We will soon have specialists to recommend specialists.
Hi Wong KT,
….All we have to do is to block rent these units and re-let it to SHC members. The longer the period one stays out of Singapore, say up to 2 to 3 months per year,
NO thanks ,another BIG headache , don’t want to end up like a ” TAI YEE LOONG ” to “chase” after my SHC tenants for the rental dues. Ha! Ha!
KT, If you are keen, go ahead.
Steven @ #45
No problem. All pre-paid like tours.
BTW. Don’t say I am a nag. I am not soliciting. I am only trying to help with a sincere word of advice.
You should not really be collecting funds by requesting people’s bank accounts for transfers in a personal capacity. You can create a host of problems for yourself including tax and legal liabilities.
If you or any other SHC EO’s are prepared to cost-in the use of credit cards and payment gateways, I can offer Scorebot’s professional payment facility. There is no uplift. Just a professional service at cost to SHC Club. Trying to do my part.
Interesting discussions here. One thing I noticed is that no one mentioned about support from their offsprings. Why huh? After putting in $$$ investing in them, none here cared about returns?
Just my 1 cent worth :)
Hi Wong KT,TIM liu /others,
…..You should not really be collecting funds by requesting people’s bank accounts for transfers in a personal capacity. You can create a host of problems for yourself including tax and legal liabilities.( comment from Wong KT)
Read from Tim Liu’s ( lawyer ) comment that it was OK to collect funds for any SHC Event BUT NOT amounting to self/company’s profit making.
Am I right TIM ?
TIM , pls.CLARIFY.
Julia @ #47 says
“……no one mentioned about support from their offsprings. Why huh? ”
IMO. The basic problem is the wealth dissonance in the middle class which makes up for most of the demographics of the global aging problem.
In our days, if one is good one can expect a princely salary of $5K to 10K per month after graduation and working for 5 to 10 years. Sooner or later, the baby boomer is able to afford his condo or terrace house costing less than $500K and the rest of the C’s. His ego and superego needs fulfilled, he can turn towards his extended family. There is enough left over to be generous to parent support.
Today, the same “made-it” class condo can exceed $1.5 mio. Houses tip the scale at $2 million. Salaries have not grown that much more. The North and South divide has increased from a monsoon longkang to a Grand Canyon in between. If they are still struggling to “arrive”, when and how do you think they will reach out towards parent support?
It’s not about being selfish. It is just us played forward to this day. It is our collective dreams and needs which are responsible for our highly over-inflated lives and deluded expectations. It has made debt junkies and consumer monsters out of most of us who are not careful with our money.
Who’s to blame? Remember who insisted on piano, ballet classes when all the poor kid wants is to play doll or computer games. If you want the class, you have to pay for it. If you know then what you know now, will you still say that $600 per month is still enough for the future?
You are lucky if your offspring doesn’t ask you for a “loan” for a new $billion web design biz or fashion boutique.
Don’t ask too much in life. Its enough not to be a burden to your children. And vice-versa. Take care of yourself first and be financially independent.
“Take care of yourself first and be financially independent”.
Well said.
On second home and retirement villages, let’s get perspective of what lifestyle we can get for our money.
USA, Vietnam and Msia are three countries now deep in economic blues. By the 1st Q of next year, we expect China to meltdown post-Olymepics and USD to collapse under the weight of its debt, recession and banking woes. Look around now. Move to acquire when it happens.
All you have to do is to use the strength of the SGD and invest in overseas assets. Hedge the currency back to SGD to protect any loss in currency exchange.
Let’s look at US where everything is a great buy today. Look at foreclosures here.
A picture tells a thousand words.
Look at this palatial USD 639K
http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-remain0712-pg,0,2996126.photogallery
If this is in Katong or Holland, you can offer SGD 15 mio and I doubt anyone will sell it to you.
Or swap your Tiong Bahru HDB for this
http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-remain0712-pg,0,2996126.photogallery
USD 480K
You will still get SGD 200K back in change.
Warning: Browse through the foreclosure at your own risk. You could be highly depressed thinking of why are you here when your dream is there. So have your pills ready.
Where’s is our value system? For most of us, it has gone abroad.
I believe for many, the most valuable asset they possess will be their apartment or house. However, if they need one to live in, there is nothing much they can do about it; unless they have an extra room or two to rent out.
The rental income plus the annuity, should hopefully take care of their basic needs.
Another alternative is to look for ways to stretch the SGD. One good idea is to live in a country where the cost of living is lower than Singapore’s, such as Malaysia or Thailand.
The rental income from the apartment in Singapore or from the annuity payment should more than adequately provide for their cost of living in Malaysia or Thailand.
Of course, this idea will be more appealing if we have a group of friends living in the same vicinity and sharing similar interests and fun together.
Hi WongKT/others,
..Look at foreclosures here.A picture tells a thousand words.
Look at this palatial USD 639K
Well the quality of living is better.
However, we have to sacrifice our night life.
…No Kopitiam, No late night shopping, etc….
Would you?
Hi guys!
I think the most important consideration about living overseas, whether in a regional or foreign country, is the uprooting of ties, relationships and connections with the homeland.
My wife, for one, would never dream of living in another country… what would she do, where would she go, what about her family, her sisters, children, grandchildren?
This is the greater sacrifice: the loss of self and identity. So I think that this is the main reason why so many Singaporeans (and SHC members) cannot pull themselves away for a longer period.
And I appreciate that. What is most important to us as we get older is this sense of belonging and love. Beyond the costs, standards of living, quality of life, etc. is the bonds and relationships developed which can never be replaced or replicated in another place.
And the bit of what we have in the SilverHairsClub!
Hi Kenneth #24,
Some 5 years ago, I have always thought that many Singaporeans can easily pack up and go elsewhere and live. But, I have since knocked some sense in my head, and like you, see that there are many more reasons of not uprooting one’s roots. It’s a balance beteween the sacrifices and the benefits of living in a nearby country.
I am not a good example, because of my family in Thailand. In fact, I would rather promote 3 month short-term living overseas – one return trip and 3 months of staying in a foreign country, with friends made from the SilverHairsClub. After the 3 months, come back to Singapore, look after the grand children, clean the house and meet with family members. 9 months later, can travel to another country for 3 months.
KT’s point about living on annuity needs serious pondering. But, he is well right. There are many good ideas and suggestions from this thread; Must thank KT for this good topic.
Terence Seah
Ter @ #55 and Ken @#54
The left brain (logic) says “GO”. The right (emotion) says “STAY”.
The last word goes with experience. Ter is right. I also have the same sense knocked into me through the entire episode of RV investment.
But here’s my take on it. “Absence makes the heart grows fonder”.
Truth is when we are together, we seldom meet. When after a period of absence, we meet with our friends and loved ones and have a great get-together. Sparks fly as we capture the lost times. I think it is those rare moments that we remember and cherish.
So it could be a “best-of-all-worlds” situation. All you need is 3 to 6 months in Singapore. You may find you maintain even better ties than if you are always together.
Steven @ #53
Missing Kopitiam and nightlife!!!
This is the worst place to find a buzz. Even pumping money and steroids into our street life has not been able to match the Buzz of any of the major Asian destinations.
Perhaps when you travel you go with tour groups or stay well within the well beaten sterile tourist routes. If you stay any place for some time and explore it as locals do, it may be a different story.
It is not only the place. But the people and culture too.
Sporeans are some of the worst people to party with. They all act as Cindrellas. By 10 pm they start fidgetting and find excuses to go home. By witching hour, they are rushing to beat down the door to get out if they have not exited yet. The way they go, you would think they are married to their mothers.
Hee-hee
Hi all,
Singapore is an expensive place to live in (let alone retire with less or no income) with increasing cost in all areas including essential public services, such as transportation, education, medical fees as charged by polyclinics and general hospitals, etc.
This place is becoming like a paradise meant for the rich to enjoy their dollars and those poor foreign talents who are here just to work for the monies and retire back home after some years.
Dear SHC members (those who are still stuck in Singapore).
Imagine yrself as a registered car at age 65 with COE paid for at say $120,000 to last for 20 years.
If you think you could live beyond 85 and could afford it, put another $120,000 aside for the next 10 years (extended COE) and plan to exit at age 95.
If you still think you could live beyond 95 and could afford it, save another say $120,000 for the next 5 years (bonus COE) and exit Singapore Paradise at age 100.
Eventually, you will be taken off the road once your COE period runs out, be it at age 85, 95 or 100. For Tim’s case is probably at age 65.
In other words, you will be taken off the road if you don’t pay up your COE or send yourself to the scrapyard if you cannot afford the COE prices.
By the way, do think out of the box and don’t be overtly concerned about living your remaining years in the box.
People like Vincent Khoo, Joan Wong and a few others has already done that and enjoying themselves elsewhere in their own Paradise.
Please don’t go too early or stay too long here on earth, time it yourself and be in control like what Tim has mentioned.
Something to share on this website:
http://www.viewzone.com/endtime.html
Happy reading.
Cheers,
What you need in retirement depends on the lifestyle that you want. However, if you have been earning (& spending) thousands per month, it is unrealistic to expect that you can live on $600 a month. What the govt has done is build a min safety net because they realised that not many people had planned their retirements now that they had taken away pensions.
Do your retirement planning. There are Financial Advisers out there who’ll help do this for you for a fee or you can do it yourself. The web has quite a bit of info on this.
Not exhaustive but to get a handle on your needs, the ‘experts’ rule of thumb is 80% of your current income. I think it’s a bit high. Better to start doing a log of your expenses over a few months (a year is better but who’s got the patience). Deduct off insurance payments that you’ll give up (DONT give up your med ins; you’re gonna need it). Deduct off expenses for lifestyle changes you are willing to make (use public tpt instead of car; restrict or give up handphone; cable tv, etc). Add luxuries that you want, eg trip every 2 years or SHC meetings, etc. Add 10%-20% buffer & that’s what you’ll prob need.
Work out your true assets; ie what you’re worth after paying debts like mortgage. Forget your home as an asset. It’s an expense unless you are willing to downgrade. It’s a little late for that, though. You might have to wait to catch the next property swing or at least sell at much lower than calling prices. You can then see if you have enough money to retire.
I think there was an advertorial by GE some time back that put it that you’ll need between a few hundred K to 1M+ for the average Singaporean.
One other thing, although I have kids, my own planning does not consider money that they may give us. For me, that would be a bonus. Our generation was fortunate: Time of immense growth that allowed us to build up nest eggs. It’s going to be extremely difficult for them – eg to own homes.