12 thoughts on “Retirement village and retirement living – first meeting, 14 Oct 2006”

  1. From Ronald Wi:

    Did everyone realise, we spend almost 4 hrs , talking and exchaning ideas without spending time struggling about food, which would have otherwise, come to think of it be a wsste of time and effort.

    What i am trying to say, yes, keep the meeting stress free having to worry about food, and like yesterday’s meeting was more fruitful, pleasant and enjoyable, and less time wasted on eating.

    For that, we have to thank Joycelyne, and Terence for a very conducive place and of course not to mention her tour of her house and history of her art work. I am already an interested student, if not a devoted one yet . I was thinking of learning Chinese Art in China
    but come to think of it we have not discovered the GEMS we can find in our own backyard yet. I have also met a Singaporean author who has written many books, some on his own effort , and he is the middle of writing another and needs help for someone to proof read it for him. Come to think of it, why not? , if he
    is willing to ask me.

    Ok some follow up (some discipline here, to keep on track of what we want to do, we can all easily get side track as they are many things we all have in our mind )

    1. For those we have asked me about the websites of other Retirement Villages , like TRang in Thailand, Leisure Farm in JB, Eco-villages around the world here is the link to my blogspot that will show you all the links.
    http://retirees-point.blogspot.com

    Also, i would like to encourage , Sigyam, Gary , and all to put up your Blogpage of ideas, and info that we all need , then it will be easier for everyone of us to reference your info anytime we have an idea to follow through. Especially also KT Wong ,we need concrete facts from you on a Blogpage to tell us the exact medical schemes that travellers should take.
    If however you think putting it on the SHC website is more practical , please do so ,just do whatever you feel is comfortable, but get it started firmly so others can benefit from it.

    2. Our RV , should on review, be more of an iRV , that is internet based RV , same as for our iBMT , as we are actually going to be a resource for RV rather than an actual Rv. Also there is no need for our iRV concept to be a roaring success or a commercial success just as Joceylne has shown us, we enjoy what we want, and do it at our own pace and have the freedom too, to choose our customers and the time we
    want to entertain them.
    That is the luxury, i hope we can continue to have and to treasure. Hopefully we dont have to give this up but able to make it work for us. What we want is a Niche way of doing our own thing, our way, and hopefully the reward is satisfying enough not only for monetary eturns, (good if can be some source of income) but for other fulfilling reasons. ( see para on GAB, below)

    3. I see, there is a need for doing things, in a more personal way, like what Joceylne is doing , as China can be producing 1000 or more plates a day and at a cost that is unthinkable. Similarly , if i can travel to Sydney and be able to meet people like JOceylne, in her house and possibly be lodged in one her frined’s place , that is absolutely an invaluable, and an experience not available from any tour agency.

    4. So friends, we have to put our ideas into reality and make this happen , and we dont have to cater for a big group or do it in a rush, Just plan for one trip for a start and we carry on from there .

    5. I can plan a trip to Malacca , to visit a real nyonya house, learn and taste the cooking the local way in a lady’s house and see how she does knitting of nyona kebaya and bead shoes, if there is anyone interested. Stay in a villa if possible, or have a kebaya, and bead shoes ordered and custom made for you, order Pineapple tarts fresh, etc.

    6. Lastly , i have also joined a group doing Guided autobiography , and if you guessed most of them belong to our SHC group category ( but have not heard of SHC) and i would think many of us should also pursue to write our autobiography. We begin to learn more about ourselves,when we start to document our past. We will rediscover and find the right path that we should take to fulfill whatever undiscovered desires, secret ambitions that we may have had to give up in the past due to circumstances beyond our control. As Plato has said ‘ The first and best victory is to conquer self’.

    7. Well for more discovery and learning , i am going to this Exhibition at the Marriot’s Hotel , at 4pm , Assam room . The Exhibition is on the Inspire Condo at Rama IX in Bangkok which is near 2 Univs, at $60,000 promising guaranteed rental returns of 8% for 2 years.

    8. Also , i think we can start a monthly gathering called the iRV talk, where we meet after lunch, and anyone of us , can do a presentation of their travel , showing their photo albums, video slides, etc that they have. Those we have intersting hobbies or passions, like Jocelyne’s can definitely be our host ,
    and introduce such hobbies. (MR Beer is in USA now )
    Many of those who want to travel are hesitant when they do not know each other, so such meetings hopefully can help to pave for more group travel to happen.

    9. Lastly, i hope those who have not sent me their survey , will do so , but again it is voluntary. For those who have some ideas but are unsure, can also send me an email or we can even meet, to just have a talk and see what is practical. Thomas, we have not heard from you and your experience working with the Exchange program, and the many contacts that you
    already have. Will like very much to hear from you.

    Cheers,
    Ronald

  2. From KT Wong:
    Dear borderless retirees,

    I really enjoyed yesterday’s meeting. It was a RV (retirement village) meeting like no other I have ever attended. The location was ideal, the company was great, our hostess gracious and very talented. I learned something about the arts. When I came back, my family thought I was crazy when I pushed the food aside to study my plate. If Ronald, our super-agent-for-everything wants investors for his upcoming International Arts Export Center, I’m in.

    I think the best part about RV are the on-location study junckets. On surface, it’s like touring. Lots of fun. If it comes to tour for value, I found that Terence, Kenneth and James have very good ideas about where-to-stay and what-to-do in Chiangmai. So if you want to explore the value of a location like Chiangmai you should ask them for a possible itinerary too. Both Terence and Kenneth will be traveling to Northern Thailand next month. The trick here is not to have a fixation to try to travel together on a budget. You get better value for your tickets being opportunistic; Do your own thing at your own time. We can still compare notes when we are back and we’ll probably be better for it. You will be surprise. It is the variation of experiences of different traveling groups that contributes and enriches the collective cognizant of the location. This is the best time – before March and after coup.

    I took an opportunity to compare notes with Ken and Terence. They have excellent choice of value agenda. Ken’s $20+ per day with swimming pool facilities is incredible value for a leisurely stay. I made a mental note to check it out next. For the “rough”, Terence has it all mapped out for the tough. A RV location has different priorities. A RV location has to optimize long term factors like sustainable lifestyle, retirement funding/investment, insurance, medical, exit plan (dying is not the only exit; you have to consider a change of mind), silverhair “visa” programs and etc. Planning to live in a place is different to touring there. Unless you are in a pre-plan serious study mode, you likely get less out of a model RV location. You may not even know what you are looking at even if it stares you in the face.

    I learned something too yesterday about RV. I told my learned colleagues to include a new holistic strategic option for thorough study. It’s now under the heading “Marry a Thai wife and solve all your foreign policy problems…”.

    BTW, in Chiangmai, a tourist must is the elephant show. The elephant ride with you balancing on a huge animal negotiating a small mountain track is an incredible lifetime experience. For around a 100 baht tip the driver will be more than happy to get down and take photos for you at various points on the supposedly no-stop trip. Everything is negotiable. If you are lucky, Jumbo will even take you across the river. Whitewater rafting on jumbo is another incredible. But the most incredible must be where the elephants do free-trunk paintings. They don’t even use pencil outlines which raises the question about who has the higher AQ (arts quotient) – you or Jumbo. Can you imagine 7 elephants painting together in real-time executing elephant abstracts, portraits, landscapes to flowers. This is not play-play. Each painting sells for around 80,000 bahts. (notwithstanding the artistic value, it sells well together with a wild life conservation spin to the story). Now you know. Elephants are ahead of you in a well-paid retirement hobby.

    Ronald, are you listening? Adopt your own elephants and you literally pay peanuts and bananas for your art. 250 kg per day per artist. Just selling organic elephant dung for magic bonsai fertilizer will make you rich. Elephants live as long as man. So consider the investment as an alternative to annuity/RM. Collaterized it as a business asset for a loan and take out insurance. If it dies before you, you can collect on the insurance. Either the bank manager forgives the loan or collect on its collateral and lose his job. Rent space in a cold store room and you can have free meat to run a steak house, “char siew pow” or satay industry for the next three years. You’ll have enough leather to upholster a bus. If you think this is ridiculous, try eating your junked bond investment certificate……….

    Heh, heh
    kt

  3. From KT Wong,

    On a more serious note.
    Exchange residential programs from Singapore have been running for some years. It started as an initiative by AMCIS, association of management committees/agents in Singapore. Perhaps James will have some ideas too. There are a number of issues which may have led to its lack of success. The survival of AMCIS itself is in question today. Overall, the idea doesn’t seem to work or anywhere nearly as well as planned.

    One quick issue. You are exchanging rights to a foreign property worth a fraction of value (in terms of psf) of your Singapore property. How do you arbitrage the difference? If you don’t address the value differentials it will not grow or be sustained. You can have the one-off, ad-hoc deal – Friendship Pact. But it will find difficulty in spreading to a trend.

    You may think only professional economists or savvy financiers will split fine hairs over such valuations. “What does the man-in-the-street knows?” The individual layman may not see it. But don’t underestimate the intelligence of a market collective to act in a market rational whole. At ground level, it may not come across as a econometric study. But it will still come across in many other little ways. Enough to put the foot to metal.

    One quick suggestion. The AMCIS residential exchange program is probably ripe for takeover if you want. SHC would be a good candidate. It has all the hallmarks of a good story and noble for-the-people aspirations. This is an excellent program if Spore is to be an active component of your ideal RV program. Note. Everything said before including annuities and RM are what we consider as passive Singapore components in the equation.

    Bear in mind. If you want to guarantee its success, much more thought must to the makeover of its current design. Otherwise, you will have a leaky lemon on your hands. IMO.

    Food for thought
    kt

  4. From KT Wong:

    Outside of Spore, try not to buy any property on plan. Buy “as-is” basis only completed ones. If you are hot on ROI try to buy with real tenancy (speak to the tenant).

    There are many such opportunities. The only disadvantage is that they don’t serve coffee and run seminars at Marriott hotel. The trick is to attend the seminars and then go buy another piece yourself.

    Here’s another trick for urban properties (near univ, transport, shops etc).

    If you like a particular location, try buy a shophouse near it with a retail tenant (fast foods, 7-11, banks, cybercafes are my favorites) on ground floor. Such shophouses normally come with 3+ floors. Reserve the penthouse for yourself if you think you will be visiting often.

    It will probably cost you less psf than the high end condo that is targetted to foreigners. Point is that you can case the joint satisfactorily and reduce risk of such an investment. All you have to do is to spend one week visiting the business and scout the street’s traffic at different times and day. Don’t get arrested for soliciting.

    Whatever works for that location will probably work doubly for you under the circumstances.

    Remember you don’t expect to keep forever any foreign assets that you buy. This includes everything from a RV investment property. So have a contingent exit plan at hand.

    Sometimes you can have your free coffee and keep the cup too.

    kt

  5. From Sigyam:

    Thank you all for a wonderful gathering. I learnt a lot from you all.

    2, Jocelyne, You are very gifted. Even President Nathan appreciates your art. I’m sure your retirement is a very happy one, regardless where you live, so long as you keep on practising your art.

    3. I hope to hear more of the serviced apartment in ChiangMai for S$350 per month, really cheap, works out to about S$12 a day, and can sleep 2 persons; about the same price as a small hotel in Qionghai City Hainan. Also Gary’s info on the Vietnamese Chinese willing to offer accomodation in their homes gives us a great chance to stay in Ho Chi Min (former Saigon)City.

    4. I will be going to China – Guangzhou, Taishan, Macau in Nov06. Hope to find cheap and good Chinese medical massage, foot reflexology, body massage, facial wraps (for ladies mainly) and great food in these places. Will share what i find after my trip.

    5. I missed the BKK condo (at S$60,300) presentation at the Mariot last Sunday. Are some of you interested in this investment which promises to pay 8% pa for 2 yrs (at least) ? Any pitfalls? Are the rents easily collected, hassle free ? Hope to get some advice here.
    With best regards

    sigyam

  6. From Thomas Kwan:

    So sad, I missed the conducted tour of Jocelyne’s art-place. She is a good adult educator – willing to share and learn. If we could invite her to share in a bigger group, more adult learners would benefit. This brings back to the question of setting a formal society/association for our group. As a registered group, we could tap into the Go! Fund for retirees, and may get access to meeting venues (at reasonable rates). Travel agents, media, etc would be interested in us for various reasons. Activites, including travelling overseas, must have themes (eg exchange learning, cultural appreciation, etc) in order to justify funding. Talks such as ‘reverse mortgage’ by kt Wong, ‘how to enjoy living overseas in goldern years’, compilation of usual photo-stories, etc would make our overseas discoveries and learning more meaningful. When a critical mass of members is available, then the concept of RV (in whatever form) would be realised faster.
    Referring to my earlier email on Vietnamese visitors, they came as members of their Organisation for Continuing Education and Development, dealing with my Association. (There is always added advantages when we operate as a registered society, especially visiting overseas.) They loved Clementi shopping because it is C & G (cheap n good). Though they have now achieved a much higher living standard, but they are still curious about Singapore – its buzz and hips.
    On a learning note, I heard that when Japanese seniors retire, they would spend all their monies on overseas instead of leaving some for their children. I hope our senior citizens can learn from them and be more lucky – maybe reverse mortgage on our houses, travel smartly, and still have monies to spend.

    Have a great week days ahead.
    thomas kuan

  7. From Gary Loke:

    I also wish to offer my grateful thanks to all of you, for your companionship and selfless sharing of knowledge. Last Saturday was one of the most pleasant and truly educational afternoons for me, since my return from VN some 4 months ago. You are really a wonderful crowd (no names as too numerous to mention), and I shall continue to contribute in whatever way I can to SHC. given my 2 cts worth of experience about overseas. Of course, the graceful hostess must be singled out for mention-truly amicable, gracious, a truly scintillating personality.
    BTW, I had also worked in Sri Lanka before and if they ONLY stop the SILLY war, that’s another wonderful place -fantastic beaches, good cheap food, easy travel etc.. The tsunami re-building is only in the south, in the city of Colombo, you can also live like KINGS & Queens on a meagre budget…

    Sorry, Ronald Wi, I forgot about my auto trip to M’sia on Sat, (21), so not possible. But will definitely follow up next time round as really very keen on what I saw…

    OK, ladies & gentlemen , till we next meet, here’s wishing all a very enjoyable and safe extended HOLIDAYS ahead… keep smiling…
    warmest rgds

    gary

  8. Hi all ,
    Seems we have had a good 1st meeting, and the general consensus is to approach the RV in 3 phases. Phase 1 – is to plan short travel to nearbhy countries to learn and experience the local conditions . Phase 2 – is to plan for a longer stay, at places where there sevice apartments for rent, or to cities where there are places for Short Stay for Adult learning, such as U3A . Phase 3 – is ideally we have found the ideal place , that meet the ideal RV concept, and it can be in Spore for all we know. Proposed next Meeting is on 18th Nov, at Ngee Ann Cafeteria, at 2 pm, – to share Travel plans,cheap air fares lookout ,out of the way places ( like Cheng Mai National park, Caves exploration, cheap medical coverage services & options available, recommended destinations such as HCM City, Xiamen, Cheng Mai,etc. There is also the Starbub Challenge of $50,000 for anyone or a team that can has an ambition, passion or adventure that you’ve always longed to fulfill and they will give the money to make it happen. Other suggestions and recommendation are welcome and this meeting is open to all who may have no RV plans but just want to learn more about proposed future trips. Cheers.

  9. Count me in for the Nov 18 meeting.

    Prior to sharing actual travel plan details, some thought should be given to the framework, organisation, process and structure of such travel arrangements.

    Otherwise, it will at best be an interest group meeting to share travel photos and experiences over a cup of kopi. There use to be a cafe in Chinatown that caters to such groups. They organize travel talks, provide projector and TV for the show-and-tell sessions.

    Is this where we are heading or something more proactive?

  12. Just signed up as member in the begining of the month. IRV is one interesting project I will like to catch up with, particularly the Golden Triangle Countries. Any more meets & updates? Edwin

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