Should EO enjoy a free ride?

Our intention for the event in question was to pro-rate the cost based on the number of participants. One of us suggested to collect $5.00 from each, why?. The cost was mentioned in the post and 33 pax signed up to attend but what if we don’t achieve this number, who will bear the difference. The EOs are at risk here because no money was collected upfront.
Actual person attended was 29 with 25 pax contributing and 4 abstained. Leftover of $25 was used to defray part of the dinner cost. Was the EOs justified to do that? Let’s us consider other considerations, 2 of us went to recce the place at our own cost and the unsung hero here is Susan who borne the cost of preparing porridge and mee-hoons for about 30 pax which I figure may amount to $25 considering she took a train from Jurong and catch a taxi from Kallang MRT to the venue.

What I can say here is we answer to nobody but for future events we like to invite ideas and opinions.

Not guilty!
Dan/Daniel/Susan/Joy

53 thoughts on “Should EO enjoy a free ride?

  1. Hi Dan and fellow members,

    I have a very firm position on whether EOs have to pay for their share in the event they are organising. All EO events are under the jurisdiction of the Club Administrator (before) but it now comes under the jurisdiction of the SHC commi9ttee. EC events are more relaxed, and the coordinator has the say.

    First, I dont think the word “free ride” is correct because I do not think EOs organise any events, just because EOs do not have to pay for their share. EOs organised activities for members because they like to do so for the general member.

    Secondly, SHC operates on the understanding that “Every member organises one EO event in the lifetime of his/her membership”. The idea is to spread the effort, time and resources.

    Thirdly, there are difficulties in setting rules and guideless as to when, why and how organisers pay or not pay.

    Forthly, the club has no objections if participating members wish to buy the EOs a drink or a makan. It will not be correct that EOs automatically assume they do not have to pay for the event. Neither is it appropriate to accept no-payment, if participating members are not consulted. Neither is it appropriate for the CLUB to set a policy allowing this. The alternative is to run the event as an EC event, with the organiser as the EC, for which I would support, if the EC informs the members at the start of the event posting.

    However, as of mid Aug 2013, I have handed the responsibility of the Club operations to a committee, I shall thus leave the final decision to the committee, Lily, Dolly, Geraldine and Caroline, in particular Dolly Lim (EO portfolio) and Caroliine Gee (EC portfolio).

    Terence Seah

  2. Dear Dan

    The Committee had spoken so has the Chairman. Your remark : “……..we answer to nobody……….” sounds like an unreasonable challenge? As a responsible EO, you are answerable to the participants of your event.

    Gingko being one of the participants had brought up very valid points. I’ve copied and paste her comments here. Hope others (participants or otherwise) can join in the discussion. Your opinions are of value to the Committee.

    Gingko Tay
    gingko.nut@hotmail.com
    116.15.19.38

    Submitted on 2013/08/27 at 10:30 am

    Hi all,

    I was about to say something, but there were early birds ahead of me. I shall settle for the smaller worms then, hee…

    I will not hesitate to say that Dan Huang is one of the very few EOs who enjoys organising events untiringly for SHC members, despite he unfailingly bangs his head against that brick wall… so often depicted by the cute emoticon.

    Yes, I was rather taken aback when I READ that the balance of money collected at last Sunday ‘s event was used for a “free ride”. Although I was one of the last few to leave, I did not join the dinner owing to personal reason. As a matter of fact, many did not stay for dinner. My thoughts now are,

    1) it would be proper if those present were informed, preferably in advance;

    2) this is about other’s money set aside for a specific purpose, very very touchy issue;

    3) the balance could be used to defray miscellaneous costs incurred, i.e. photocopy, learning material, etc.; Presumably these out-of-pocket expenses were incurred by Daniel Chan;

    4) personally, I feel Susan Tan should be reimbursed for all cooking ingredients which she bought to cook that huge pot of porridge for all of us. That was so sweet of her. Thank you Susan. Enjoyed it!

    Just sharing… and let’s wait for Dan’s much anticipated new post.

    Cheers!
    GingkoT

  3. Dear Lily/Gingko,
    My first draft on the post was without that contentious phrase but…… I do apologize and retract it.
    Let’s me response to Gingko’s questions point by point.
    1. If you check my post i did state that we will be collecting $5 from each of you and the excess will be use to defray part of the cost for the dinner.
    2. Yes, other’s people money but have you consider who will bear the cost if we have not enough pax attending to cover the cost of rent?
    3. I did mentioned that any excess can be use to cover course material in the post.
    4. Susan refused to be paid for her services which I presume to be about $25. If we take a closer look we should thank Susan one of the committee member for subsidizing part of the dinner cost. The committee members here should be the one accepting gratitude from all of you.
    What have we overcharge here to all the participants, $1.00? Have you consider the time and effort the committees put in to ensure you have free mandarin lesson, 4 hours of karaoke singing and free high tea for $5.00, $4.00 to cover cost of rent?
    Please show some appreciation!
    Dan/Daniel/Susan/Joy

  4. SHC members
    I was one of the participants in last Sunday’s karaoke session at Kolam Ayer CC but I am not here to be embroiled on the issue and will not comment on the aftermath of the event. It is left for the members to decide themselves. Rather I would like to put forward a perspective.
    Here I would like to share a little of my experience when I organised a similar event at the same CC on10 Dec 2010. In the post the cost per pax was $10 which included the rent, the 3 prizes ($30,$20,$10) for the singing competition, costs of food and drinks. Luckily the collection was just right to meet the expences.
    My greatest satisfaction derived from this event was to get a group of SHC
    members to enjoy the company and singing together. Further I was very grateful to two persons who helped out in preparing the score sheet, recording and tallying the scores. Although I did not win a prize I was most happy to present the three prizes to the winners.
    I hope this will help wouldbe EOs to have the correct mindset in their next event.

  5. Robert, thanks for sharing. Good to know that you have a successful event but spare us the ‘holier than thou’ attitude. We chose to come clean and put ourselves in the spotlight with regard to every cents collected. We’ve been upfront right from the start before collection was made, those who came was never force to attend, all came to enjoy themselves. There is no requirement that in any event money collected must be accounted for and this is not the first event that I have organized
    The dinner suggested was open to all, only 8 went. 3 committee and 5 members. We were hoping that more could join to spread out the ‘bounty’.
    It’s not nice to bring back the past but to bring justification to our committee, I want to cite an example. In one of the D&D held at The Pines some years back there was leftover fund. The committee decided to reward themselves with a dinner, I was one of them. Please clarify here whether we are practicing double standard?
    Dan

  6. Dear Dan

    We are here to share our opinion and not to “fight”. You are on the defensive from the onset. Why? People who think they have the right but unsure puts up his defence before anything else.

    EOs and organising committee members commit themselves because they want to share their knowledge, their expertise or just want to have fun with fellow members and I applaud that. I have been EO many times over and my organising committee and I do it out of the thrill, the excitement and the thought of everyone being happy together. We have always been prepared to fork out the difference if the minimum pax was not met. My organising committee and I did recce many times, put up items for the show and the list goes on. I prepared lunch or dinner for my committee members when we have organising committee meetings at my place at my own cost. I dont have to announce it to the world but since you brought it up. For D & D, we spent a lot of time for meeting and out of pocket expenses which were borne by us. We do get brickbats but we take it in our stride and strive to improve. We negotiated very hard for a good price so that members dont have to pay too much for a night out to enjoy themselves.

    We had to seek for sponsors for the prizes etc from members and outsiders. Can you even imagine how difficult it is to get sponsors? Probably not.

    Yes, we had a thank you dinner for all the helpers for their efforts at the D & D held at The Pines and I was the EO for that event.

    No one came for free. Everyone paid for their tickets, including the EO and the organising committee members. We had more than the expected turn out. So we had excess funds after the event. It was not planned. The helpers spent a lot of time practising their acts, the numerous trips to the practice venue, the money they spent on their costumes, etc. For such a big scale event, is it too much to ask for a thank you meal for the helpers? Of course it was a surprise for the helpers because they were not expecting it. They did what they did for the event was out of the joy of sharing. Not for any ulterior motive nor with any expectation. They are truly the unsung heros. And I would gladly pay for the dinner if we do not have the excess funds.

    So the crux of it is we paid our share as did everyone. That is the big difference.

    Carly

  7. Dear Carly,
    If you are place in a position to explain your action, would you come out and defend yourselves? Take Gingko’s first two question and tell me if you could provide a rational answer..
    Certainly I am not gear up for a fight, we are here to clear the air with regard to future EO and future event.
    I do apologize here and take responsibility for my misjudgement.
    Dan

  8. Hi Dan

    Thanks for organising the event, truly enjoy the moment. Besides Susan’s porridge and mifun, Dan 3 in 1 coffee, those who brought cakes, curry puff, spring roll, tidbits and many more are we going to account for all items.

    Money is definitely a very touchy issue and need to be accounted even to the nearest cent in event organized and should not be take for granted unless is spell out prior to the collection/payment.
    Thanks to all SHC EOs who organise activities without considering any return for their time and effort, I salute and remind myself to support in attendance, to contribute any idea rather than complain.

    Coming back to the money issue I feel the amount involve is an important point to look into it, ????????????.
    I feel uneasy with Dan’s unnecessary apology after putting time and effort for others, and receiving brickbat for this effort for “utilizing the excess collection”. Is it for the pleasure for the dinner (I am one of the eight)!!! Thought this was posted clearly
    Just my thought with apology having difficulty in joining words to sentence.

    Regards
    Goh

  9. Dan,
    Since you can remembered the appreciation dinner for 2nd DnD, perhaps, you also can remembered that appreciation dinner not only for committee members but also for the efforts and contribution of Hamidah and line dancer, Lily Ho and social dancers including your goodself. I am very sure none of these members were expecting anything in return but to keep up a good show for other members to enjoy…. Bravo..to all these unsung heroes, including yourself, right?

    Cheers… Dolly

  10. Hi All,
    Having read thru’ all comments here – The SHC committee would want to review this interesting subject before we can conclude our stand, hence, we would like to encourage other members to give us your feedback and suggestions, if any.

    Let set a closing date on 15 Sept 2013 @ 2359 hour and we will compile all these feedbacks and suggestions before any conclusion can be made.

    Let’s hear from all of you out there….. Cheers… Dolly

  11. Hi all,
    Thank you all for the many interesting feedback and opinion with regards to Dan post on “Should EO enjoy a free ride” . Would like to thank Dan and Daniel for organising such a wonderful teaching and karaoke session. I also agree with Goh Ah Lam that Dan you don’t really need to apologies because you did inform the participants that” any excess money is to subsidies our dinner”…
    I enjoyed both the teaching and karaoke session and did not join the dinner as I had another dinner to attend on that evening. In my opinion if the excess is not exceeding $10 as per contribution from the members I will have no issue or objection as on to how the EO wants to do with the remaining balance money. Also agreed with Terence that it should not be term as free ride but rather the EO can made decision on how to use the remaining balance money as proposed or suggested earlier on. Yes would also like to thank Susan for the nice porridge prepared by her. I also did proposed that she should be reimbursed for the amount spent but she had kindly refused any reimbursement for her porridge . Cheers..
    Bobby Bok

  12. Dear Dan
    It has been a tradition for the EO of D&D to treat the Event Committee to an appreciation dinner after the event provided there is a surplus in collections. These EOs will not hesitate to top up if the dinner bill exceeds the surplus.

    Such annual events, with minimum 100 pax requirement, take 4 to 6 months from planning to execution. Is it too much for the Event Committee, who had put in much time and effort for a few months, be rewarded with an appreciation dinner? I am surprised you use this as a comparison to your event.

    What about the monthly events such as the Walking group and the Cycling group. Has any of these leaders expect their dinners to be paid for at the end of their walk or cycling?

    As EO of any event, you may decide to reward yourself in anyway as long as your participants have been informed in advance. For that, no apologies required. Same goes for other out of pocket expenditures.

    This topic is open for discussion and there is no need to put other commentators down. By doing so, few may be intimidated to speak up. We would like to hear from others as well.

    For future discussion, please use Event Committee or ECom for short to differentiate from SHC Committee who have been appointed to oversee all SHC matters, events and activities.

  13. WHEN I pay $X for a product or service, I don’t care what the seller will do with the money, because simply, after paying, it is no more my money. For all I care, he can go to a fine restaurant or a back lane in Geylang. More importantly, I would have checked before paying whether the $X I am paying is worth the money, and whether I can get a better deal elsewhere.

    I conduct tuition lessons for O level students. I charge $50 per hour. 4 students together for 2 hours earn me a cool $400 on a Sunday morning (I had to change to evening on the 25th). I usually teach one hour and talk “nonsense” for the next. Is it value for money on the part of the students? Shouldn’t they pay me half the fee? One student told me she learnt more from my “nonsense” than from my lesson. I do not wish to verify, why should I? Anyway the fact that they had stuck with me since Sec 1 shows that they (and their parents) believe it is value for money. Who dare to say otherwise?

    Let’s come back to the buying and selling. Of course, there is recourse if you are not happy after buying. Either you complain to the seller to get a refund or bring your case to the consumer watchdog. There is this thing called the Lemon Law. Don’t take advantage because you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you are “short-changed”. The seller has a reputation to protect too. More importantly, the kaypoh people, the Police or even your Member of Parliament cannot help you. They can make all the noise by virtue of their assigned, approved, accorded or assumed authority but that is only noise. Caveat Emptor is the name; Open Your Eyes is the game.

    I don’t think any of our participants on Aug 25 is petty. However, we are prepared to hear each complain separately, if any. I was deeply honoured when they bowed to me as I left the Karaoke room. Such returns are not measured in dollars and cents. I must thank the few who came, paid and left without singing a single song or eaten a drop of porridge. $5 for 40 winks? THAT is expensive.

    To such people, I say, “Thank you very much. You have my full support the next time you are the EO”.

    For info, Dan Huang and I were prepared to pay the full cost of the room if we did not get a single participant. I would still share my knowledge with Dan anyway. Kindness begets kindness and the reverse is damn true.

    We have formed the Mandarin Group, and in future all correspondences will be via WhatsApp and Email. We don’t need the “media glare”. We certainly do not need “learned friends” to tell us how to run our business. People who work hard to bring entertainment and fun to others do not deserve such ugly publicity.

    ??????
    ??????
    ??????
    ?????…

    (Daniel Chan / ???)

  14. Bravo Daniel!! You’ve been in hiding too long.
    Anyway it’s been fun being in the Club, you meet all kind of people and encounter all kind of political undercurrents.
    Robert, sorry I gave you a piece of my mind but lost my peace of mind.
    Sometime you wonder whether going through a rough patch will make you stronger or otherwise.
    I have organized so many activities and as I recall it brings back sweet memories. I did the Kukup overnight trip for more than 40 pax. The operator gave me a free ticket but I chose to use it to buy durians and rambutan for the group. Next was a dinner and walk to Hort Park for 40 pax on two occasion. Each time I go back to the Hainanese Chicken Rice stall, I would enjoy a free meal. So much so that I was afraid to go back for that free meal. You see, the towgay asked me when I am bringing the Club member over again.
    It was pure satisfaction and never have I hanker for a free meal. Too lengthy to elaborate other outings, I shall stop here.
    Dan

  15. Daniel Chan

    Who are you referring to as the kaypoh? Obviously there are no police or MP here? Are you calling the Committee and those who speak up as kaypoh? Is this name calling your double standard?

    Didn’t know you are selling your service? Even then, so what?! There are other members here who are professionals yet provide their services to members for free. Have they ever self praise, self promote or display their arrogance? And ever wonder why people left without attending and after paying? Caveat venditor is preferred anytime.!

    Authorities whether assigned, appointed or accorded are nevetheless authorities to be reckoned with. Unlike someone who tried to self appoint but failed and then resort to attack. Is this why they call ‘sour grape’? Nastiness begets nastiness.!

    If EOs do not accept members questioning and comment, sure, please feel free to take your event elsewhere. Don’t forget it is SHC forum that helped start your event in the first place. Talking about gratitude? Please.

  16. Lily Ho Willocq

    Obviously you did not read my last paragraph. Indeed, I am taking my event elsewhere. The only person all members should be thankful to is Terence. Who are you? You were dormant for a long time and suddenly sprang to life just because you were “bestowed” a title. BIG DEAL huh?

    Why did you attach a member’s comment and display it on her behalf, instead of asking her to write directly? Are you her legal adviser? Are you out to create mischief and defamation? Is this the conduct of a so-called committee member? Is this the conduct of a forum moderator?

    When I wrote my piece, I was expecting your response. You did not disappoint me.
    Does it matter whether you acknowledge me as a member?
    Does it matter whether I can write here?

    Finally, a question to all the members,
    “WHERE, on the Internet, can you find a platform where several domineering frustrated women gather often to taunt, tease and tickle each other?”

    The answer is: “Xinmsn – LIFE (????)
    Any other suggestions?

  17. Dear Dan

    Thank you for your response. I know you would react this way when “attacked” but do think of the consequences. I know you dont mean to hit me below the belt but it was an unfair statement made about me and I am not too pleased so I have to say my piece.

    Like what’s been said, its a small sum you all are collecting and if the members attending know what they are in for, then fine. However, I am sure you are aware that where the club is concerned, everyone pays.

    I know you have doggedly pressed on, organising events, even though like you said “hit the brick wall” and I applaud you for that. I do hope you do what you do because you enjoy it and not because you are a pawn in a game of war.

    And no, I am not someone who likes to fight. I usually speak up only when I feel my friends are pushed to the edge. I stand by my friends and I value my friendships. Also, I dont believe in stooping low by calling people names to prove who is better. If one resorts to this, then one is not any better.

    Regards
    Carly

  18. Dear Carly,
    It’s not fair to say that I hit below the belt as I was trying to point out why certain thing are allowed to happen while other are judged harshly. Yes, it’s true that your committee have work very hard to ensure that the event was successfully carried out. The reward that was given became a tradition. You emphasizes that all member pay the same and that made the difference!
    We stood by the $5.00 that was imposed and whatever excess was clearly made known to all participants on the post from the beginning how we intend to spend it .The difference here we emphasize was whether you as EO have made it known to all how the balance was to be spend?
    So far no one came forward to complain except Gingko’s comment about not being informed. Our committee have decided to re-reimburse everyone for the $1.55 owed to them. Please provide your Saving Account No, the deadline is September 10. Thereafter no refund will be entertained.
    Dan/Daniel/Susan/Joy

  19. Hi Dan & Dan, Susan, Joy

    Is the sum of $1.55 cover Susan’s porridge & mifen and your 3 in 1 coffee. Do I need to reimburse for taking the food and drink if the $1.55 could not cover the stuff. Hope this is not a joke, a joke which could not tickle me.

    I’m fully and clearly inform from Dan’s posting any excess from collection will be used for dinner after the even. Fortunately or unfortunately only eight of could made. I thoroughly enjoy the moment and hope the others likewise.
    Looking forward to the “shi bu shi” get-together again.

  20. Dear Dan

    I think you have misunderstood what the hoo ha is about.

    Its not about how the EO spends the excess but rather about EO and event committee not paying for their participation. You claimed victory that you and your event committee members have set a precedent of not having to pay to attend an event. This is definitely out of line where club policy is concerned.

    If I had deducted the D & D expenses from the collection and there was enough excess funds to cover the ticket price of the EO and event committee members and I reimbursed myself and them so we need not pay to attend, then I would have done wrong. The balance sheet presented after the D & D was transparent for members to see.

    I hope this clears the air and I think its good to “thrash” it out so there is better understanding all around. No need to scream and shout because the message may not be heard clearly. I like to use simple words so that the message is easily understood. Big words do not scare me.

    Best Regards
    Carly

  21. Hi Goh,
    This $1.55 will be re-reimburse to all. No, this is not to cover cost for what Susan have contributed.
    Carly, yes the question here is EO paying their share for the event. Am I right to say that if all EOs pay for their share they have every right to spend the excess however they please? The issue of how the excess can be spend is more critical here than EO contributing their share.
    I did set a precedent and I am open to debate by exposing it on the post, did I try to hide? Don’t use your sarcasm on me! There is no Club policy that every EOs should pay their share, show me?
    Dan

  22. Daniel Chan

    In reply to your flare up :

    You are right that I was dormant and I would have happily continued to be so if not for the call of duty.

    Immediately after my appointment, you sent me an email instructions one of which is to watch out for : “writers spewing obscenities or resort to name-calling in an argument..…..” You even named names to watch out for including the one you are now praising.

    I replied saying that, as a forum moderator I have guidelines to follow and I know I will be stepping on toes including yours and you promptly replied : “Do not hesitate to step on my toes hard if I appear unreasonably wayward on the blog.” I still have the emails.

    Whether it is an organised talk or an on-line forum, there is a need to have an orderly conduct of business. The absence of which leads to chaos. We all know that. The SHC on-line forum is no exception and Terence has appointed moderators to manage it. Of course we know that nobody likes to be monitored. But it is not a choice for us since we accepted the roles.

    We welcome alternate and different viewpoints on issues. However, contributors need to be up-front and honest. Where hidden agendas and insinuations are detected and where these may cause disharmony and sow discord amongst the members, we will have to tell the writer off. Admittedly, I was too direct. I can be softer but I will not shirk from performing my duty.

    I didn’t know one have to be a legal adviser to copy and paste someone’s comment in this forum. The purpose was to keep the relevant comments on 1 page for discussion. Has the original commentator complained? Accusation of creating mischief and defamation is totally irrelevant here and pure fabrication.

    You have decided that you want to bring your activities somewhere else. It is fine. Everyone is free to choose what suits them.

    I have said my piece and will not respond further unless someone steps out of line again.

    Lily Ho Willocq
    Forum Moderator

  23. Dan,

    There was sarcasm? I mean what I say. Like I said, l put my words simply and if you think its sarcasm, then be it.

    I think this thread is if EO should pay and not how to spend excess funds. You mean you have forgotten thats why now you are saying that we are debating on the wrong topic? or its been changed to suit your convenience.

    You have misconstrued many things. You should read what I wrote again and carefully.

    P.S. Read what your Co EO wrote. Put your question about the right to spend the excess money to him. He thiinks what you assume and I dont have a part in it.

    Carly

  24. Hi Lily, now that we have both simmer down somewhat, lets talk something for the common good.

    Yes, Lily. In my congratulatory email to you, I ended by telling you to observe a new member called Peter Tan, as he appeared to be dabbling in politics in one of his posts; albeit in a humourous way. This is what I wrote

    “Finally, observe this new member Peter Tan. He seems to be poking fun at politics, but let’s see to what extent”.

    I did not think he was intentional as he was new and his statement not very mischievous. He did not write more so I let the issue rest. Did I do the wrong thing, Ms Forum Moderator?

    As far as I am concerned, rule is rule and it applies to all.

    I also told you the same stick (no sex talk no profanity) ought to apply to all, particularly to those who write a lot, including Terence (the one I am praising now).

    Do you agree with what I have stated?

    We also told each other pleasant things during happier times.

    Anyway, they are of no relevance to this case but since you have brought up the issue, I have to clarify. With your permission, can I forward the email exchanges between us, dated 18 Aug 2013, to any “kaypoh” who is keen to know?

    Lets move on. I hope there are more voices from the members at large instead of only the same few.

    What I don’t like about “committee members” here is that they appear to be acting as the prosecutor, jury and judge all at the same time. Who would want to particiapte in such a debate?

  25. Daniel

    Actually I am enjoying my DO NOTHING activity but I read your last paragraph and decide to participate in your ‘debate’.

    I really do not think there is anything to debate about the new committee. Terence have asked for volunteers and non has come forward. He then appointed the 3 ladies to form a committee to manage this forum. I am sure he had given serious consideration to their abilities before he decided on them. I don’t know about you but I was not invited. so I swallow my pride and be a good member and obey the new committee. If I am not happy with any of their decisions I will try to persuade them and if they drive me crazy I can move on to the asylum..

    Just like Terence, the committee will be the ‘prosecutor, jury and judge at the same time’. They will ask for advice if they want to but as Terence said they will finally decide.

    The committee has just been formed and they have not made any changes to the club rule. They continue and implement what rules and practises we have had all this while. I am very happy with these rules that is why I am still here. I think passing any judgement on them at this stage is quite premature.

    I wish the committee well and would help to make their job easier whenever I can

    This is not a debate. I gave my opinion, it is my judgement and I don’t give a shit if anyone disagrees.
    If you agree, I think it is time to voice out your support to the new committee members…they will be facing a thankless job. There is time to whack them on their heads if they ever swells too large.

  26. Carolyn,
    I am the person who started this thread and I am very clear what is the issue at hand. Why I wanted to point out the matter about excess fund was because it is a serious matter to debate on. I shall not pursue it here and I apologize for bringing out the matter about the D & D.
    I don’t take kindly to what you said that, I quote ‘You claimed victory that you and your event committee members have set a precedent of not having to pay to attend an event. This is definitely out of line where club policy is concerned’ If this is not sarcasm, what is? You obviously have short memory that I said I wanted to start a new blog on this issue and don’t accuse me that I misconstrued many things without proof.
    What my co-EO said was just his way of explanation, don’t accuse me of doing the same thing.
    Dan

  27. Daniel

    Nothing makes all members happier than to see everyone is cordial to each other.

    Why do you keep calling members ‘kaypohs’?? This IS name calling and your email to Lily said “……to watch out for : “writers spewing obscenities or resort to name-calling in an argument..…..”, aren’t you doing the very thing that you told her to watch out for or perhaps only you are allowed to??

    Have you actually simmered down somewhat, and really want to talk something for the common good?

    You mentioned that the committee members appear to be acting as the prosecutor, jury and judge all at the same time.

    Let’s look at your comment: “Finally, a question to all the members,
    “WHERE, on the Internet, can you find a platform where several domineering frustrated women gather often to taunt, tease and tickle each other?”

    The answer is: “Xinmsn – LIFE (????)
    Any other suggestions?”

    WHO is the prosecutor, jury and judge?

  28. Dear Tian Soo

    Thank you for believing in us. We hope to serve in the committee to the best we can. And we believe that with support from members like you, it will make our thankless job much easier.

    Best Regards
    Carly

  29. Dan

    I think there is so much anger in you that you spelt my name wrongly. Or was it intentional?

    You still dont get it. I think you should go and read what i said one more time. There was no accusation nor sarcasm. Whatever I said, its to the point. No beating about the bush.

    Not paying for your latest event and not paying for dinner after that and also I quote ” Each time I go back to the Hainanese Chicken Rice stall, I would enjoy a free meal. So much so that I was afraid to go back for that free meal. You see, the towgay asked me when I am bringing the Club member over again”, more free meals. You shot your own foot. Need i say more.

    Carly

  30. Thank you, Tian Soo, for your support and words of encouragement.

    We shall do our best to ensure the club remains a friendly place for members to feel at ease to join in discussions etc, to participate in activities etc and to organize activities as well.

    We look forward to your organizing another gathering.

  31. If I may say, all of us ended the day with smiles on our faces. From those who left early, who slept through it all, who sang, who did not or could not join the dinner and the diners of course but yet, the moon and tide was obviously not meant to be in alignment. It had to be marred!

    Dan, Daniel, Susan and Joy, it had been an enjoyable day. Thanks to all of you and all those present too! To the fellow diners, we seem to have a special bondage now.

    As I was one of the diners, I think I should owe now. Dan, do tell me how much but I don’t think you are calculative and will agree if I pay for your coffee the next time; it would be that much more pleasurable.

    As I see it, the issues are:

    1) EOs not having to pay for the events they organize – Dan’s “Should EO enjoy a “free ride” and
    2) The use of excess money from an event with or without prior expression of how they will be disbursed. As I understand Gingko’s post, the concern is the “free ride” on the dinner. It’s all praises for Dan. There’s no mention of the EOs enjoying the “free ride”.

    Both issues are now on this post.

    Dinner was on the agenda. How excess funds would be used was explicit. All were invited but most, for some reason, decided not to go and we respected their decisions. One had thought the distance we had to walk was too far and was actually discouraging others not to go. If you had been for the SHC walks, this is sparrow’s feet! Some of us had wanted to dine there again while others were game to try. Don’t think any of us went because of the “free ride”. It would be of the utmost insult to even think so. The cost each diner paid was far greater. Yes, the dinner was sumptuous but I don’t think Dan meant it as in the dictionary. Yes too, I had waited 3 hours for the dinner and had sat through the karaoke enjoying it although I did not sing. The 3 hours were worth far more than the “free ride”.

    Let’s do more justice to the S$4,500 Terence and some other members have invested in.

    Do I have to take “cover” now? LOL!

  32. Tian Soo.

    Refreshing to hear a new voice, particularly from one who claimed to “DO NOTHING”. What debate? See the comments just after yours. THAT is the debate. If you are still not sure, scroll to the top to look at the title of this post. THAT is the debate.

    Like you, I appreciate those who step forward to help. Thankless task indeed. But you are wrong to say that Terence was the prosecutor, jury and judge previously. Never. In fact, on many occasions I was the “prosecutor” and Terence the judge. There were many participants, for and against an issue. They spoke freely. Eventually Terence was the one who decided and we all respected his verdict. THAT WAS a healthy forum, or debate, or opinion…whatever.

    Look at the case now. If a committee member makes her stand at the beginning, what is there to talk about? Where are the speakers? I agree with you that it may be premature to pass judgement at this early stage. Hence, like you, I take note of the last paragraph of a message. Except for the “shit” stuff, I share your care — and concern in the last line. Perhaps this is the reason for our existence here while continuing to “DO NOTHING”.

  33. Caroline,
    No lah, it’s hard to get angry whenever you smile at me.
    At the Hainanese Chicken Rice stall I was having a free meal, what wrong with that? It’s was a confession I made, how did it ended I shot my my foot? Btw, it’s ‘ towkay’ not ‘towgay’.
    Dan

  34. Nah, Daisy, you don’t have to take ‘cover’. No one is here to hammer others to the ground.

    You are sharing how much you have enjoyed the afternoon and the dinner. Cool!

    I would have joined you guys for k’ok if it wasn’t for my prior appointment. My loss. Kekekekeee.

  35. Ah Geraldine, still awake?

    Hammered? Perhaps not in broad day light.
    Chastised? Oh, yes! Don’t you recall? For being an advocate of no gambling.
    To the ground? Oh, it’s so tiring……

    Emotions seem to play a big part in one’s ability to misconstrue.

  36. Oh! My post is under moderation. Why? Hope not becaus I have expressed how I have personally felt about being hammered or rather chastised?

    Well okay but I think this should be okay.

    Emotions seem to play a big part in one’s ability to misconstrue.

  37. ???? ? ?kong tor chor tor). This is a Cantonese phrase, which means the more we say, the more errors we made. Personal and inter-personal communication is very complex – it all happens “up there” in our emotional and logical sections of our brain. This current section of the thread exposes more on the emotional aspects than logical.

    What I would like all involved on the emotional side to …

    Breathe in, breathe out – breathe in and breathe out. Have a quiet moment to yourself and reflect (or analyze what you have said) – you will learn one key aspect on personal and inter-personal communication. Don’t forget “Doing Nothing is a decision and there is also such thing as “Agree to Disagree”.
    hewlee

  38. Sometimes a good quarrel does wonders. It helps to put issues into perspectives…our shc. Counter has shot up last few days..lots of views had been expressed.I have nothing more to add.time to move on..have a pleasant day…there are more important things in life to worry about.

  39. Thank you Hew Lee and Charles for your contributions and wise advice.

    Dan, actually I want to p… but thank you for being not angry. However, I still stand by what I said.

    Like I mentioned, its good to thrash it out so that the air may be cleared. I have said what I want to say. Life is beautiful and is to be enjoyed.

    Everybody, have a great weekend.

    Cheers
    Carly

  40. Dear Blur Sotong Dan,

    You’re a good man, but sometimes v naughty. Sometimes I feel like giving you a k………..

    Okok, back to finish some work for Chief………….. Yangon here we come! Yay, that’s the fun part about SHC – cheap travel, good lobang for cheap accommodation, lagi best free tour guide!

  41. Thank you Daisy for the compliment, you were there to enjoy and take it in just as we are delighted to be a part of it.
    Hew Lee, there is also another Cantonese sayings ” if there is no fight you may not get better acquainted”. Indeed you will understand people better through all these brickbats. Thank for sharing.
    Charles, a quiet man and seldom heard you on the post. Readership has increased tremendously, is this good or bad omen?
    Caroline, dun sleep with your anger for it shall beget sorrows and bitterness! I was trying to ease the tension and you prove to be spiteful and offensive.
    Susan, those were endearing terms, why want to k me?
    Have a great weekend.
    Dan

  42. Dan, I thought I have said what I want to say. However, since my name is mentioned, I feel its rude not to say something.

    You have never been more wrong. I was never angry from the start. Now I find it amusing. I just find it disappointing that some, after being in the club for so many years, choose to ignore the dos and don’ts of the club. No point in getting angry thats why I never felt that way. I just felt sorry for them. Maybe there are underlying reasons that they themselves don’t know.

    I was saying it the fun way about p… but it was early morning and I wanted to add in Ha! Ha! Ha! but forgot and it was a grave mistake of omitting them because its been read as I was angry and spiteful. Never Dan. I have known you for so many years and I always thought you are very soft spoken and a gentleman. But I never knew there was a Jekyll & Hyde there. Or was it someone else? Too strong words. So not you.

    However hard we hit each other on the forum, you will always be a friend to me. Unless…..you take the hatred beyond the SHC General Forum. I just hope the members whom I have spoken against will be magnanimous as to not to take to heart what I have said previously. Like I say, I stand up for my friends and will bear the consequences.

    I want to spend a beautiful and happy weekend. So…..

    Cheers
    Carly

  43. Lunch break. Steal some time to write.

    About this case – It is a silly title to start with. If Dan H had asked me before posting, I would never allow such a piece to go online. Hence, I refused to be drawn in initially. Why show in great details your account and then remark, “We answer to nobody”? It is like showing your wife a stack of dollar notes and then ask, “Why you worry?” You are simply inviting a fight.

    Nobody complained about the payment or dinner after the event on 25th Aug. It was a successful event. Everybody was happy. Perhaps, some felt that organizers should be more forthright in declaring their spending. Point noted. There is now a Speak Mandarin Group where members learn Chinese via WhatsApp and Email.

    About future events – This actually is the main topic, but it has deviated to arguing about DanH’s dollars and sense. In the process, temper flared and amidst the hot air, there has been no conclusion. Personally, I think the EO or EC shall call the shots, including money matters.

    About the committee – Unfortunately, it appears like committee vs ordinary members. We applaud the few (thank you ladies) who had volunteered to come forward to run this Club. Without them, this online stage would probably lower the curtains and sing “Auld Lang Syne”. For all the noise and commotion, many still tune in to this “channel” faithfully.

    Committee members can air their opinions freely in issues pertaining to life, love and even lust. Nobody is compelled to write if he does not feel comfortable. However in controversial matters where the Committee as a whole will eventually decide, committee members should refrain from writing. Explicitly or not, opinions from a committee member already suggest the outcome of a decision. Members who are inclined to opposing views simply will not participate. Why start a post then? Just write the rule and, like it or not, all follow.

    SORRY, Lily, for those harsh words and unkind remarks. They are uncalled for. I tend to get mad when provoked. (Probably I will beat Tian Soo to join IMH). I maintain my statement that you are a good choice for the job. I now add that it will be more perfect if you are more reserved in writing on controversial issues that you and your committee eventually have to make a decision. If the counter is an indication, we have 99.9% of people reading. We want participants in this forum, don’t we?

    With this, I rest my case. Let us have a minute of silence to remember Pearl Goh, who had departed us.

    Thank you, people for your indulgence. Have a good weekend.

    (Daniel Chan)

  44. Caroline, yes we’re been through so much since joining the Club. I really want an end to this and I hope to maintain a stronger friendship with you and those that I rub shoulders with here. Thank you for willing to accept a role here and we assure you that we will support you and the rest of the committee. I think Terence we should have an Inauguration Night to honor all of you.
    Daniel, where were you when the 4 golden girls keep asking me to put up the post? They want me to get the ball rolling and it became an avalanche and you are still mulling whether to get involved. Just curious, what would be an apt title?
    Now after all these draining session I longs for bear hugs and butterfly kisses…. and Daniel are you game I am coming?
    Dan

  45. When I saw the post, I never think I will comment on it. I am not qualified, as I never be an EO, and never will be an EO

    But when I read thro’ the comments, a story come to my mind. I like to tell story, so shared it below

    Once upon a time, there was a playground. Many people love this place and go there for rest and fun.

    There is a hive (or honeycomb?). No body feel the hive is a problem – the bees there never hurt the people. People even like to watch the bees moving among the flowers.

    One day, a group of boys in the playground have an argument. All the boys think one boy among them is not brave.

    This boy don’t agree and want to prove to the others he is actually brave enough to do anything. When he is thinking how to prove to the others, he saw the hive. When he staring at the hive, one of the boy know what he want to do and said “Yes, do it to prove you are brave”. Being encouraged, the boy run to the hive and kick it. The result ………

    Sometimes, when we do something, the results are uncertain and unpredictable – It may be good, it may be bad, it may be started good and become a bad ending or vice versa.

    But for something, when we doing them, the result is a must – like kicking a hive.

    My opinion for the boy is:
    If he know the result, and he willing to take it, then he kick the hive is a brave action.
    But if he don’t know the result or he know but don’t want to take it, then he is not brave, but a bit stupid

    For the another boy who encourage him to kick the hive, sure he is very a bad boy,

    End of the story.

  46. Thank you Dan. I agree and now give me a high five!

    Dear Andrew, I love your story. Very good story teller. You beat that Under One Room guy hands down hahaha! Nice weekend treats!

    Cheers
    Carly

  47. Yes, Charles, I agreed with you with regards to Andrew Y’s story telling talent…

    Having said that, I wish that more members will come forward to give us your feedback on this subj.. so that we will know your views and if needed to be, we will seriously consider to adjust accordingly to make the club more vibrant…

    Cheers.. Dolly

  48. Caroline, a high five shall be, can I ask for more?
    Daisy, if you follow ‘sumptuous’ to the dictionary it summarizes a banquet. But creating bonding is not the same as ‘being in bondage’. Not sure I will fall for that. Anyway i failed my English, my grammar are all over the places. That’s why I want to start a Book Club so that I may polish up.
    Dan

  49. Wow, Andrew, can’t imagine you are such an awesome story teller!

    Agree with Charles that you should be voted best story teller of the year.

    Great job!

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