Blue Helmet announcements – March 2015

announcement4  announcement5 announcement6

Some of us are still working in companies that employ us.  We get paid a salary; Very often, we are in the best position to hear of available job opportunities, full time or part-time, in our department or another division in the group.

If your company has a job opportunity and you think that some SilverHairsClub members may be able to apply, feel free to announce the job opportunity here. You may be giving fellow members an opportunity.  Blue Helmet announcements has some simple guidelines.

  1. The job opening should be from your company only.  Positions from other companies are not allowed. This will be treated as paid advertising.
  2. The job should clearly target seniors or is open to seniors over 45.
  3. Feel free to announce the job responsibility, the job location, and any other criteria.
  4. Feel free to put down yours or your company’s email or tel contacts.
  5. Job opportunities relating to politics, sex, race, religion and MLM are not permitted.
  6. Comments or announcements unrelated to Job announcements will be deleted by admin.

So, help your fellow members who are looking for a job.

Terence Seah


Abang, got lobang?

Most of us have at one time or another need some kind of help or services. It would be good to express it here on this post to reach out to fellow members.

I have previously started a a similar post in 2009 and many of you have share with us your experiences. This time round I have a couple from India coming for a two week stay and looking for a room or a small flat to rent for a fee. They are my old client but good friend now. They will arrive on January 3. Anyone have a lobang or know of anyone who can help. Whatever fee I collected, 30% will go toward a SHC Fund, how dat?

My email: ‘’


Home-based marketing as a secondary source of income?

Mention MLM and there will be a lot of people screaming ‘no no’! Can a taboo be broken? I know I am treading on the precipice but I feel that this is something that need to be discuss.

Multi-level marketing utilises a combination of direct marketing and franchising. MLM have an image problem because of difficulties in distiguishing between legitimate network marketing and illegal pyramid selling, "ponzi scheme" or scam.

Life is about choices, then came MLM, work hard for three to five years and then you never have to work again. Is this possible? The answer lies in the one word "leverage". MLM is also about personal development and and business education.

A new and powerful trend is emerging, the marriage of MLM and internet maketing to connect with their distributors. The internet is a 24/7 and accessible anywhere and anytime. Physical contrains is no longer an issue. Cross borders business are now possible so is overseas recruitments

The questions now is why, is it because we worry most will take advantage of free advertisements on this post or? Most MLM distributors have their own websites, they can tap on Facebook, Twitters and so many other blogs to promote their ware.

I hope we can have a lively discussion here and should there be any qualms, let put is down here. Why deny us an opportunty to earn a secondary source of income in our twilight years?

Desperate Dan

SHC Retirees dreams in Myanmar

This Posting is approved.

William Chew, one of the founders of SHC, is opening opportunities for retirees to discuss possible options in Myanmar. 

We are looking for retirees who wish to spend time relaxing and working in Myanmar.
Possible options, can be:
1) Creative designer in Digital format.
2) Who wish to write (can be team work), turning cooking experience into cook book and we will publish into BOOK (share sale profits income), this can be Singapore Cook BOOK, Asian Cook BOOK, Indonesia cook BOOK.
Can enjoy live cooking and sell to good restaurants in Myanmar as well. Like running a restaurant.
3) Advertising related roles…sales, marketing, copy writer…
4) Printing related work

Send all your interest to email: with details specific to the needs above. Please note only emails with sufficient details will be forwarded to William Chew. 

Hope to hear from you all soon.  Closing date end Aug 2012
William CHEW

SHC monthly news update, July 2012

Dear members,

We are now into the second half of 2012.

Monthly gatherings:

Let’s think about the SHC monthly gatherings.  Most of us know there is a monthly gathering, organised during the week day from around 4pm to 8pm, usually in the city. This event caters well to the still-working SilverHairs and some retirees.  Since the beginning of 2012, the monthly gatherings have expanded to cater to members, mainly retirees living in the East and the West. Robert Ong has been steadily organising the monthly gatherings for the Easterlies; while Dan Huang is now organising the monthly gatherings for the Westerlies.  Most times, the participants are retirees, as these events are held during the off-peak periods and during the weekdays.  If you are looking to meet new SilverHairs friends, and looking for common interests and companionship, look for Robert Ong and Daniel Huang in the  Their events are published there monthly.  If you make time to join these events, I am sure the EOs would be most pleased to make this gathering a monthly activity.

Healthy activities:

SilverHairsClub is for the over 45s.  We all see the need for healthy activities, exercises and fresh air, amidst scenic surroundings.  There is the walking group, the cycling group and the badminton group.  Their activities are organised almost every month; read more about them in the Club’s forum.

Annual Dinner & Dance:

This month is our monthly Dinner & Dance.  It’s titled "Arabian Night"; and the organisers assure us there will be plenty of dancing, games, music and fun.  If you are looking for a night of dancing and dancing, all dressed up for the evening, you may be able to get tickets to this evening event.  Register now in the Club. I think there is still room for you.

Interest groups activities:

There are many other groups, each organised by dedicated members.  Join the IT group, the Photography group, the IT Balloon group, the beginners guitar group, the line dancing group, the month end Kovan dancing session and even the online fleamart.  Do join them.

Membership changes:

There are some changes in the membership procedures.

*  With effect 1 July 2012, new membership applications will be processed during the 1st 7 days of each month.

*  Members, whose email address has changed, and have not informed the administrator, will be delisted. You would have to apply new.  You can tell you are delisted, if you can no longer log into

Membership to SHC will continue to be free.  As the Club does not have an activity organising committee, members are expected to organise one activity for the Club and its members, during the membership term. If you have not done so, please speak with the senior members who would be able to offer you some ideas. These activities can be related to your interests, hobbies, leisure, charity, travel, small business, etc.

Part-time work for retirees and working members with some free time:

In the coming months, we will focus on paid part-time work opportunities for retired SilverHairsClub members, as well as working members who have some free time.  We have now a good size start-up group to launch Eldersitter services to elderlies in Singapore.  A number of members have also applied for part-time nanny services, confinement ladies, office stand-ins, errand runners and drivers, and we are now consolidating the names list.  We have recently received a suggestion to offer online Chinese tuition to overseas adults in western countries.  Retirees and those with the time, are invited to participate. We shall also pursue this idea.

What you can do to help?

You can help spread word around to help our retirees, who are still fit and healthy, to find part-time work. Our retirees have the experience, wisdom and knowledge, being over 45.  Working part-time is not just for the money; a part-time job helps us keep in touch with the outside world.  We may have retired from full time work, but we have experience and knowledge that can still be put to good use, during our Silver years. A part-time job is our way of continuing our contribution to society and to a labour tight Singapore.

*  Your friends or colleaques may be looking for a fit senior to look after their elderly parents, keep them company or send them for a hospital appointment.  Hire an Eldersitter from our group of retirees.

*  Does your office or factory need part-time staff as stand-in? Ask your company HR, your boss, or your family friends to register with SilverHairs Enterprise by sending an email to

*  Is your married children, expecting a baby, and looking for a nanny or a confinement lady? SilverHairs Enterprise may have someone for you.

Please do your part to spread the word around.  Contact for any suggestions, queries, ideas or opportunity. I shall be very happy to hear from you, as the Blue Helmet project has taken us years to discuss and conceptualise.  Many members have contributed to ideas, met at many meetings, spent their time and weekends, and effort to come together.


Thank you.

Terence Seah


SilverHairsClub – Part time work for retirees

Dear SHCians,

This month’s newsletter aims to focus at what SilverHairsClub can do for retirees or members who have given up a full-time job.  If you are a retiree or have given up full time work, I look forward to hear from you.  At 45+, many retirees have acquired years of skills, knowledge and experience.  Retirees have seen the world, saw their children growing up, going through school and seeing them having their own career and families.  As retirees, many of us also want to spend some time doing the things we have always wanted to do.

If you are one of the lucky Retirees or SHC members who may not need to have a part-time job, I would encourage you to help our fellow members find paid work, so that we can pass through our lives with fun, cheer and some comfort, without suffering from loneliness and an expensive society.

For different reasons, some of us want to continue working part-time; and may find searching for a suitable job difficult.  We want to stay in touch with the outside world.  If you wish to do something meaningful and like to find a part-time job, I am hoping we can do so collectively as a Club.  Besides fun and social activities, SHC can present itself as a Club with experienced seniors.  Over the years, various job ideas have cropped up, and I think it is about time, we re-try looking at this area of part-time work for Seniors.

Some of them are:

1. Care for the elderlies in their homes
2. Providing phone receptionist services from our homes.
3. Running errands for families
4. Confinement and nanny services for young families.
5. Stand in for various positions in companies when the full time staff is on sick leave or long vacation.

The list can go on, and as to how we will proceed, we really have to depend on your interest.  Simply fill the details below and email this information to me at

1. Name:
2. Address (which area in Singapore):
3. Mobile tel:
4. What kind of part-time work are you looking for? (10 lines) :
5. When are you available? eg which days of the week and what are the times? :
6. What is your expected compensation? eg $ xx per hour or per day or per month :

For members who are working in organisations, and have a need for part-time staff, please let me know the company name, the contact person, tel, email address and job type.  I am sure many retirees will benefit from your recommendation and effort.  Ideas and suggestions welcome.

With effect from 1 July 2012, job postings will not be allowed on this forum by individual members.  However, corporate members can continue to do so.

Thank you for your time.

Terence Seah

Part-time work opportunities for retirees – Nannies

Under the Blue Helmet project, we discussed opportunities for SilverHairs to remain active, make use of their skills and experience, stay in contact with the world and be able to be compensated for the part-time work.  To be honest, we have not been successful, due to companies not accepting over 45s in their payroll.

Eldersitters was identified as one area to go into, whereby fit and healthy seniors offer companionship services to elderlies in their homes.  We have since identified a pool of eldersitters, and will be starting our advertising programs soon.

At yesterday’s SHC monthly gathering, a couple of ladies discussed the possibility of offering nanny services or confinement care ladies during the weeks before and the one/two months after delivery to young couples who need help during an important time of their lives.  I thought this is a wonderful suggestion, and would like to pick this idea up.  However, I am not a woman, so I dont know what is involved and required.  My wife had the help of her sister, but what about the many young families who may be searching around for a confinement lady.

I am sure many SilverHairs ladies retired have experience in this area of birth and looking after newly born babies.  Please share your thoughts on this project.  If it makes sense, we can offer this as a service to young families in Singapore.

And, if you like to be a confinement lady or nanny, please contact  If you can state some of your experiences, this would be great.

On the same note, if you are looking for a confinement lady or nanny for your married children, please do contact me too at the same email.

Under this project, if we go ahead, this will be paid services.  If you like to manage this service, do let me know.  This project will be directed to SilverHairs Enterprise PL.

Terence Seah 


Update on ServiceWorks’ Job Briefing on 1 June 2012, Friday evening

We had a job briefing last evening, 1 June 2012, Friday for SHC members who
have sent us their resume.  We are glad that all the 75% SHC members who
responded to the invite turned up.  At the briefing, we also have our own
friends, trainers and associates.

Our 2-month old SHC member, Jimmy Lim, delivered an overview of the
Innovation & Capabilitiy Voucher (ICV) launched by SPRING Singapore on 1
June 2012.  The evening’s highlight was on the various available job
options and related matters.  The audience was spontaneous during
the  Q & A session and they were invited to join the individual job
interest groups which were facilitated by our Consultants after the

Main Interest:

  • Sales & Marketing
  • Training and Consulting
  • Mystery Audit and
  • Focus Group Facilitating

It was a fruitful gathering and we know that we have injected a reasonal
level of excitement into the atmosphere.  Some attendees moved around
after obtaining information about a different job scope.  Most of the SHC
attendees joined the Mystery Shoppers/Focus Group Facilitating groups for

We hope to engage more SHC members to be part of ServiceWorks Pte Ltd. 
If you are keen to be a mystery shopper, a marketing consultant, etc, please
write to us for an application form.

Members who have attended the job briefing, would you care to share your
thoughts or anxiety with us?  You may post it here or write to



We would love to hear from you.



Job Opportunities at ServiceWorks Pte Ltd

Since ServiceWorks Pte Ltd
became a Corporate Member on 11 May 2012, we have received a few enquiries on
the job opportunities available in the company.

Some enquired on the type of training and consulting work that we do, and
some asked about the criteria of the candidates that we are looking for.

We specialise in Service Consulting work and training in Service
Excellence.   Check it out at

Many companies know the importance of Service Standards and want to achieve
them through corporate training.  Unfortunately, they may not have the
‘know-how’ or the resources to do it.  We work with companies to develop
and sustain Service Excellence.  Companies who have sent their staff for
Service Standards coaching through us found that their staff diligently
practice the company’s corporate Service Standards at their


If you are a self-motivated individual with a positive attitude, integrity,
good communication skills and a customer-focused mind for

  • Sales and Marketing
  • Training
  • Service Consulting
  • Mystery Shop

you are probably the person that we are looking for.


Please feel free to send us your CV or drop us a line if you have some
experience in any of the above-mentioned areas or keen to learn but have
no prior related experience.  We will be shortlisting
candidates by 29 May 2012 (Tue) for a briefing on 1 June 2012
(Fri) and hope that you will be one of the shortlisted

Please write to

and mark ‘Job Application’
(SHC member) or

b)  respond through this post with
your email address.  We will send you an
application form for your prompt completion and return.

We offer full-time and part-time positions and we look forward to hearing
from you real soon. 

Note:  We will keep you posted (one way or another) whether you
are shortlisted.  We will NOT keep you in suspense nor do we keep you
waiting for a reply that will never come.  Finally, all applications will
remain highly confidential.  We take pride in protecting the privacy
of all applicants.

Warmest Regards

May Woo

for  ServiceWorks Pte

Doing meaningful work, part-time or fulltime during your free time or weekends

Today, many Singaporeans are gainfully employed, either fulltime or part-time.  So, are SilverHairs members in the SilverHairsClub.  Most are well positioned for retirement, with a roof over their head, travel regularly during the year, participate in different kinds of activities and have a positive outlook towards their SilverHairs years.  You can tell many SilverHairs are contented with their lives.

There are also many SilverHairs who are looking forward to keeping themselves busy with meaningful work, especially part-time work.  Many SilverHairs have a wealth of experience from their previous career, their hobbies and interests and a host of knowledge acquired over the years.

Singapore is definitely short of experienced people, like yourself, to fulfill different roles in society.  If you are looking to offer your services to Singaporean families and organisations, you may like to publicise your availability and service via SilverHairs Enterprise PL (SHE).  SHE will accept only chargeable services.

SHE will offer these services to the public via advertising and other media.  You will be contacted, when an inquiry comes through via its reservations and appointments system.  If you like to participate, please email directly to your interest.  An application form will then be sent to you.

Terence Seah 


Dog Boarding for Temporary / Long term

Dog boarding for temporary /long term with peace of mind while
you are abroad for holidays . I , being a pet dog lover for 20 years has reared  more than 10 different kind of breeds
of dogs. As a retiree, I would like to offer my services  to members /others to take good care of
your pet dog while you are away.

The price ( negotiable ) for boarding will be well below the
market price charged by the professional pet dog hotel boarders or pet shops.
The boarding at my home will include daily walks, regular brushing of the teeth
and fur , weekly bathing with shampoo and conditioner  and cleansing of the ears. Premium dry dog
food is optional.

For record, I had taken good care of a Golden Retriever for
2 years and a Silky terrier for 1 month. 
For more details, pls. email me at
with subject Dog Boarding. Thank you.

p/s  Only 1 dog at a time and advance notice to be given.  


Installer wanted… Anyone interested

Hi All,
The company I am working for right now, is working for installer for Telco providers on a case to case basis.  No prior experience is needed as basic training will be provided.  However, it will be good if you have some knowledge of installation of telco equipment, no worry, all these equipment are not bulky types.

Additional info : Job is for installing of cables, cable modems and ONT.  Must have possess some basic computer knowledge and laptop (needed for configuration at customer’s site)

However, you must possess your own transport.

These vacancies are open to everyone, eventhough you are 50+.  So long you are willing to try to learn, our Senior installers are willing to teach.

If anyone here is interested and will like to know more all about this job nature, please feel free to contact me at and I will make arrangement for you to meet up with my superior.

Hope to hear from you soon… Cheers… Dolly

Developing a SilverHairsClub band and singers team

Edwin Chen (Uncle ED) has offered to develop and train a team of singers who can sync with him during live singing sessions.  He is a one-man band; and I am looking at opportunities of having him and a team of singers perform during some of our concerts, talentime and other music & dance activities.

While Edwin has other activities, I am hoping to have this program developed as a SHC project.  If you are interested in being a singer with Edwin, please do send me your singing resume via email  Number of participants limited to 4.  Selected candidates will be interviewed sometime next month.

The requirements are:

  1. Has been active in SilverHairsClub for at least one year.
  2. Has sung or performed in singing activities, inside or outside of SHC.
  3. Able to undergo training and practices during noon to late afternoons, initially on weekdays.

Closing date: 15 Oct 2011.

Attend a dating course

There is a WSQ course "Establishig and Managing a Dating business, coming up on 4 April 2011.  I had attended the course, a year ago, and I think it has been useful.  For Singapore, dating meets a national objective, especially for young people with busy work schedule and forgetting to start a family.  For singles SilverHairs, dating is the beginning of a new life.  If you are interested to develop dating as a service business, you may want to consider attending this course.

The course costs $321, and SilverHairsClub will subsidize 50%, if you complete 100% attendance, over 3 days.  The advertisement is published in Today’s STPage B18.

Interested parties, please email me before 20 March 2011.  There is an information session on 17 Mar 2010. A Blue Helmet project.

Terence Seah

Position Vacant

Silverhair members are welcome for this position.

My company located in Jurong has a vacancy for admin assistant for 3 months. Transport available at designated MRT stations.

Job scope :
To assist Admin department to do filing and keying in data into the computer system.
Working hours : 8.30 am to 5.35 pm
To start work immediately.
Applicants to e-mail :
Christina ChanWH

SHC Fleamart – Sat 20 Nov, now changed to Sat 11 Dec 2010

A date has been tentatively set for the next Fleamart, if not most likely, on Sat 20 Nov 2010.  Time is likely from 0900 hrs to 1500 hrs.  Location is not firmed yet.

Members interested to take up a stall are encouraged to take note of this date and time.  If you have items for sale, you may indicate them under this Post.  Pre-orders are also encouraged.  Commercial items or products are not allowed.  So, go ahead, whether new items, old items, used items, sealed and packed edible items.

Any form of sale or advertising outside this Post not accepted, and likely will be deleted.  This is a once or twice a year event where selling is permitted, at the SHC Fleamart.

Where possible, the location will be opened to the public for the sale of products.  However, all stalls will be made available to SHCians only.

Suggestions or ideas welcome.  However, please do not be disappointed if any idea is not taken up.  Have fun.  And, of course, if you raise your hands to offer assistance, I will be most pleased; but again, please do not be disappointed if I do not pick it up.  But, no harm, trying too.

The plan is to concide this Fleamart with the November monthly gathering.

Terence Seah

Fleamart stalls list:

  • Stall 1: Terence Seah
  • Stall 2: Hou Chong
  • Stall 3: Anna Seet
  • Stall 4: Rosalind Lee
  • Stall 5: Constance Wong
  • Stall 6: Yat Sing
  • Stall 7: Frisna Tan
  • Stall 8: Lily Ho
  • Stall 9: Caroline Gee
  • Stall 10: Dan Huang
  • Stall 11: Agnes Seow
  • Stall 12: Boon Liang/Thomas Loh
  • Stall 13: James Tan
  • Stall 14: Ann Giri
  • Stall 15:  Alice Teo /And we stop here.  Interested still? You may find someone to co-share a table.

Teaching vacancies

A private school in United Square is looking for  ex-MOE teachers to teach secondary level English and Maths. If you are interested, please contact me at and I will put you in touch with the personnel in charge of recruitment.

PA to licensed independent financial advisor

Friend of mine looking for a Personal Assistant.

1. Enjoy talking over the phone and simple telemarketing with HR departments and potential clients
2. Simple corresponding via emails and phone co-ordination with HRs and clients
3. Other ad hoc admin matters

Full or part timer (during office hours) with some relevant experiences. Flexibility to work at home occasionally, as long as able to work well with results. Pay negotiable.

If interested, email me at

“Party services” for the young and old – maybe another idea

Now, back to my cranky thoughts.  We have discussed a number of ideas, something for our retirement days.  In line with the Blue Helmet concept, I am beginning to think that some of us can gather together to provide party services to the public – young and old.  Something which I think we can do, even if we are over 45.

Singapore has a bigger population of high-end PRs and new citizens.  Maybe more kids, more need to meet with fellow Singaporeans.  Maybe more generous and open to kids parties.  Singaporean families may be looking forward to bringing their kids friends together; and of course in a more relaxed mood.  Maybe as a business, we can provide party services to them.

Then, there is the older generation in Singapore.  I guess parties would be good.  Not simply cooked food in the house.  Maybe parties, at home or somewhere in a untouch spot in Singapore.  Maybe, kids are looking at more than just going to a restaurant.  A birthday party, an anniversary or even a family gathering.  A different father’s day or even a celebration for good school results.

I dont have all the ideas and plans; but I guess for those who are interested, we can get together.  Of course, some would like to be party organisers.  Alot of work; but I think this is something suitable for the over 45s who are looking for some work, hopefully exciting and rewarding.

Broadly, I would think this party services would take in some SHCians in different roles.

If you are interested, please drop a comment here, saying what you would be interested in.  Please do not email or sms me, as I prefer ideas to be shared.

Terence Seah

Stand-in roles for dancers

MediaCorp is currently producing a comedy cum drama about two grandfathers and their friends. In an episode of the series, there are scenes where one of the grandfather is a good ballroom dancer. However the actor acting is not a ballroom dancer and so they need a dancer to stand in as they are filming some dancing scenes. It is also looking for an Indian woman ballroom dancer to stand in for the actress acting as his partner.

Any senior members wanting to take up any of these two roles? The filming will take about 2-3 hours and Mediacorp will provide remuneration for the time taken.

Interested, plse contact me at for contact details.

Terence Seah

Part Time Telemarketer & Admin

Dear SHC Member

A friend is looking for Part time Telemarketer and admin urgently. 5 days week, 4 hours work a day at Newton office. Hardworking, committed, willing to learn. Speak English, Mandarin and Dialects.

Please contact me for details, urgently to arrange for an interview.

Good Luck


Sylvia Ang

Hire a husband

About a year ago, I met a guy in Perth.  We have since accepted one another as friends.  During the time of our meeting, we talked and joked about an idea of "Hire a Husband" as a means to find househelp.  I didn’t know what the idea was all about; until he brought me some Western Australian newspapers classifieds section.  Inside the classifieds was a section on "Hire a Husband".

Initially, I was eagerly looking for another section on "Hire a wife"; but cannot find.  Only got "Hire a Husband".  Well, this is a househelp section where you can find someone to help you buy the groceries, fix a broken lamp, walk the dog or even to feed you if you cannot hold a spoon.  Keeping one company appear to be one of the accepted tasks too.  Sounds very professional work.

In SHC, we have some guys and gals who have raised this topic before, ie help with SHC.  Well, this is Hire a husband.  Sounds fun, eh?  Let your thoughts run wild; and once  you have an idea, share it here.  We may be able to develop this "Hire a Husband" into something worthwhile doing as we get further into our SilverHairs years.

Terence Seah 

Marketing Assistant (Part-time job)

Hi Silver Hair Buddies

If you have spare time, wish to do something meaningful from home, likes to talk on the phone and yet have the flexibility of choosing your work hours, this is the job for you.  Minimum 20 hours per month.  

Industry : Beauty n Spa

The job description of the marketing assistant is as follows :

  1. Email and fax product brochures to potential clients.
  2. Follow up with phone call to make appt on behalf of field sales person.

Attributes of an ideal candidate :

  1. Possess good communication skills.  Members who have performed Sales, Marketing or Customer Service roles are ideal.
  2. Able to handle rejection
  3. Ability to follow through on an assigned task with the end in mind
  4. Bilingual in both English and Mandarin preferred
  5. Has basic computer skills on usage of email, web browser and Microsoft Office applications
  6. Prefers someone who owns a fixed line phone and computer

If interested, please email to me at "" and leave me your contact.  I will call you back as soon as possible.

Batik Painting for Beginners

Hi All

This is prompted by Jassmine’s post on Barter …… and the suggestions that she raised. I believe that some had shown interest in my earlier post of opening my place for learning activities but then changed my mind. The reason was chiefly I spend very little time in Singapore and therefore unable to manage any activities held there. I hope to be able to manage this better with some help and my longer presence back.

Those who wish to visit my place to see if they like to conduct things there can let me know.

To kick off this is the first activity:

Course: 4 hr Batik Painting for beginners

Dates: Nov 8 & 15 ( 9 – 11 am) or Nov 22 (  8am – 12nn)

Fee: $40



Venue: my condo flat

Afternoon classes can be arranged instead.