When I heard of this expectation from some parents, I went, ‘You’ve got to be
kidding!’
This is the situation. A dad with two children, who can ‘only’ afford
to pay for one college tuition automatically feels that the oldest child,
by token of being the oldest of the two, deserves his support and really
expects this child who will be working (let’s hope so) by then to support
and pay for his younger sibling’s college tuition.
When the dad was asked why can’t he put the money aside for the younger
child instead since this second son is more brainy – academic wise whereas
the older brother is not and is struggling with getting decent grades?
Classic reply; this is how it is in a Chinese family.
WHAT??!! REELI?? Am I missing something here? I am Chinese,
too, but fail to see the ‘logic’.
When further questioned what makes him think the older brother would give a
shiat about the younger brother, let alone put him thru college, the dad smiles
stupidly and says, well, it is the older brother’s responsibility, not
his. Good grief.
He has conveniently overlooked the fact that the older son may not even be
able to support himself; how else is he going to support his younger brother
even if he wants to? Shakes head…….
Needless to say, the younger son is aware of this and is already hurt and
sad. Poor child.
Your take, please.
My take is that the older brother has not the moral or statutory obligation to support the youger one. He may or may not be able to do so financially. Further more when he gets married, he has a big responsibility to his family.
In the final analysis, the father has to see that the younger son has a good education through financial, spiritual efforts and by acting as a mentor.
This is the typical scenario playing out in many families.
There is a Chinese saying, “Even the best judge cannot pass verdict on a family affair”.
????????
For the sake of discussion, let me voice my opinion.
The information provided is not sufficient.
We can only say whether the father is right or wrong if we know :
1) The father’s age
2) The father’s financial status
2) The age of the 2 children
2) The age gap between the 2 children
3) The bond between the 2 children.
AS a lecturer and father, I shall not put a price on “academic ability”. There are other more important attributes in a child. In fact, we should always lend a helping hand to those less academically inclined. Look at some of the successful scholars – that is another story.
Hi Geraldine,
I take it this is a hypothetical case.
To me this is what I call a judgement call. Ie, based on the facts, for which there is few here, the dad may make a decision which may or may not work out for the good of all, ultimately.
Then again, you may be referring to the Chinese ‘superior'(read Channel 8) culture of favouring males over females and elder over the younger. This is something which I disagree with. I am only stating my views here, not imposing my views on anyone.
My view is that the dad should focus on what he thinks should be the best decision for the whole family, young, old, male, female. If he thinks it is a workable decision to have the elder son be educated first and then carry on the responsibility of helping in the education of the younger, and he thinks he has a good or reasonable chance of success, that is his call as a parent. If he makes the wrong decision, of course, there will be ‘discomfort’ for the family. But education is on-going and as you know, one can be younger and educated later and can do well/better later in life. Who knows what the future will bring?
But this is not to divert from the initial argument, which is whether ths ‘Chinese’ culture of protocol is wise or fair, as a principle or practice. The other is like Daniel says, dependent on many other facts.
One way out, for arguments sake, is to tell the elder son, that the dad/family can only provide him a loan for his education, after which the loan is due and repayable to the dad/family, so as to provide for the education costs of the younger son.
The responsibility for repaying the loan will be clearer and may incentivise the elder son to study harder, for a loan which he has to repay.
After due consideration, the elder son may not take up the ‘offer’, and that may show his confidence, or lack of it, in getting a higher education.
Of course, the elder son may still accept the offer, and fail disastrously, but at least he will have to accept some responsibility. Will that be better? Who knows? But at least the thinking process is clearer, choices are offered, choices are made, responsibility is exercised, additional effort is made, presumably. It is easier than shirking off responsibility for the education of the whole family.
Is this so difficult? I know of many people who were told by their parents, either study locally or not al all. Are we worse off? Is our sciety worse off after all these years?
Lastly, while education is important, it is not life threatening. I know of many people who studied well, did not have higher education, passed, failed, did well, became (_o_)s, etc, in all variations.
Education, while important, is still not the elusive ‘X’ factor.
While Asian societies value education and are prepared to lose the family fortune on it, western societies differ. It is frequently practised, even now, for the parents to tell the children, to make a study loan for their higher education. Many Asian families will sell their one and only family house to fund their children’s education.
There is no right answer. It is still what I call a judgement call. Make a bet and it may reap rewards manyfold or explode.
I was told some people here view Channel 8 culture as superior and wrote of their superior background, ancestry, etc.
Is this true? So our illustrious Leeder, a peranakan, is not so superior than? Is it fact or fiction?
I think the old man is just following our Chinese tradition. The oldest male is the next inline to lead the family. He is given all wealth and is expected to accept the responsibility for all in the family. Today modern families do not follow this.
It is impossible to say which system works better. In your case, the second son may have taken the money and become successful, emigrate to America and proudly raise his own family and consider the family he left behind as leeches.
In my family, the ancient Chinese system works perfectly. I have an eldest brother who is now 78 years old. He inherited nothing, because that was what our family had. He has to started work at 15 to to keep us 7 siblings and a mother alive and educated.
When I had a heart attack and hospitalize not too long ago, he would spend the whole day with me, only to return to sleep at night, so that he can come back the next day. I think he still feel that it is his responsibility to keep his youngest brother alive. I am touched, but he will not accept anything material from me. He is poor but very proud to do his duty.
Our highly imaginative and witty CM Geraldine obviously has the commendable knack of releasing controversial issues one after another on this forum for interested parties to offer their respective opinion/s on them, attracting others holding either similar or contrary views to give their takes. This is akin to returning to school of a bygone era to participate in a debate contest of sorts.
Through it all, everybody in SHC can absorb and collate all the viewpoints tendered and make his own private conclusion. The SHC collective wisdom of members can only go one way, and that is: up and up and up whereby the sky is the limit.
Forget about the remote chance of dementia or Alzheimer’s taking hold on us. Many elderly inside SHC felt compelled to put on thinking caps to work their our “ammunition” for debate on the forum. We surely cannot let our CM down by not responding. An idle mind is fertile ground for mental
degradation leading to dementia or Alzheimer’s disease.
Thanks Geraldine for your good work.
Blessings,
Terry
#3 Charles Chua
It is only a matter of time when China will become the world’s number one economic power. The fact is already acknowledged worldwide. In the coming decades, China will be so super rich that Chinese might displace English as the world’s number one international language. Already a large number of Chinese speaking Caucasians are working in China.
Unknown to many, centuries ago China was a world power. What stagnated China was disunity amongst her people and minorities. And this unfortunately led to some Chinese territories taken over by foreign powers. Most ancient conquerors of China were assimiliated by the Chinese like the Tartars, Huns, Mongols and Manchus.
Achievements of the ancient Chinese:
Not only did the ancient Chinese build the Great Wall of China, they also built the Grand Canal passing through several Chinese provinces. They were the first to build dams to conserve water and shiplocks for inland naval navigation which the copycat Westerners imitated especially on the Suez and Panama canals. They invented money and printing paper and were also fantastic astronomers. A thousand years before Halley was even born, the Chinese discovered Halley’s comet which Chinese named “broom star.”
According to the late British Sinologist, Professor Needham, hundreds of Chinese inventions brought over the Silk Road to Rome were used to spur the British Industrial Revolution. With the Chinese invention of bellows to add heat to furnaces, the Chinese were able to make bronze and iron weapons and utensils. The ancient Chinese already had hot-air lanterns flying skywards long before the Europeans built the hot-air ballon based on the Chinese principle.
Blessings,
Terry
Hi Terry @ #7,
I don’t know why you have chosen to tell me of the past glories of the Chinese empire.
How is it relevant? Does it mean a great power or great discoveries or success lead to a superior culture? Africans are natural long distance runners. Does it mean they are culturally superior? I can agree they have a propensity to do well in some areas but this is a far cry from cultural superiority.
I also note you have forgotten to list the mistakes of the Chinese, their fall from being a world power to what was seen in the early 90s, all the way to the excesses of the Cultural Revolution.
Some years ago a local civil servant spoke of the lack of a ‘moral compass’ in the PRC Chinese. This is now aptly illustrated in the milk scandal, cooking oil scandal and the list of PRC managed public companies that have frauded the general public, here and abroad. A case of cultural superiority? Moral bankruptcy, I think.
A big GDP is a function of the earning power, productivity, capital accumulation and the number of people in the country. Who would argue that GDP is equal to cultural superiority? They were a lrge GDP country even when they were poor. Simply because there were massess of peolple there. Their per capita GDP was/is low, even while their absolute GDP was/is high, like now.
Perhaps some may be thinking that cultural affiliation or association with a large, successful GDP country would rub off on them. Much like when Bruce Lee was around and the talk was to leave small size Chinese alone or else they would be beaten to a pulp by their knowledge of kungfu?
Maybe we had better go back to first principles whenever we try to analyse anything, so as not to lose the focus of our analysis. I am sure we can recognise kindness, strength, beauty etc in individuals without any need to classify or group them into race, nationality, skin colour etc.
Also don’t be too quick to latch on to superiority by association/affiliation. You may utterly disappointed when the same culturally affiliated person refers to you as a dog, like it has happened.
And Blessings to you too.
Hi again,
One of the PRC Chinese whom I know told me some years ago. It will only be a matter of time before the Yuan becomes on par with the S$.
So for those who believe in cultural superiority by association, stock up on the Yuan. The difference is almost 5 times more, a 4 bagger or 400% increase in value.
Not vested though.
A good start to this discussion.
Robert, agree with your first two sentences in paragraph 1. Even if he has the means to do so he may not want to; the ‘Why should I?’ mentality.
Daniel, besides the 5 factors, let’s not forget about favoritism which the dad firmly denies. Wonder if he would have done the same if the oldest is the youngest instead.
Charles, though your comment is under moderation, I’d like to say your paragraph 6 is an ideal solution: a student loan for both the boys. This is fair and both of them get their college education and the dad gets his money back for his old age. Whether or not the boys will repay the loan is a different issue.
Tian Soo, your oldest brother is a wonderful human being; filial and has lots of love for his family. Yes, he is certainly responsible and takes his ‘duty’ seriously. Your family is indeed blessed with such a son/brother.
His spending time with you when you were in the hospital showed his immense love for you. I wouldn’t call it being responsible to keep you alive. Kekekekee. Such a sweet man!
Terry, thank you for your kind words and I want to thank YOU for taking the time to comment on different threads and being harmonious. This makes my job easier. Kakakakaaa.
Give us your take on this topic, please.
This is the real story of the olden day. Actually, the real situation is much more than that.
In the olden day (my parent’s day), most of the families were not rich and have many children. Some reasons (I give two) to explain this phenomenon cab be:
– This is Chinese tradition – children equal to wealth.
– Not much, or no money, for activities/entertainment at that day, and making children become one of the most important and cheap entertainment (not joking or nasty).
In that time, a poor family with 3 or more children was quite common. If both father and mother has gone to make end meet, the eldest kid, no matter boy or girl, had to take care of the rest. If the next kid became older, he will take up the responsibility, and the oldest one will out to work to earn money for the family. In this case, the family will become richer and richer, and the younger one in the family had the chance to enjoy the education. Most if not all the families will take this for granted and will not consider if it is fair or not.
Ironically, the members in these families usually have better relationship with each others.
Now, this phenomenon is nearly gone with the wind. But how about the relationship between the members of the family?
I consider no matter what happen in our society, they sure have at least two faces, it can be bad or good or grey area.
Hi Daniel #2
Another Chinese saying for “Even the best judge cannot pass verdict on a family affair” can be:
???????
First of all, I am sorry for the numbering mistake in #2. Using phone then. Eyesight problem lah….
Hi Chua – I think Peranakan is a mixture of Chinese and Malay cultures. Children who are brought up in a mix of two cultures can flourish in the good of both worlds – and flounder in the bad of both. Ultimately, the parents are the prime motivator – or manipulator. Channel 8 may not be a good example of Chinese culture. The old man must have had gone through many cultures in his long and eventful life. Do you think he should be worshipped or walloped? How about the modern PRC? A saint or a shame? Start another post and we shall discuss more.
Hi Tian Soo – I salute your brother. You are lucky to have one such elder sibling. His is a classical manifestation of Chinese culture’s contribution to mankind. 5000 years of civilisation cannot be easily dismissed.
Hi Terry – Yes you are right. Some of us like to “talk” and Geraldine has always provided us with the opportunity. I like controversial issues and hence will likely participate when one surfaces. It is always difficult to maintain the right balance between assertive and aggressive. I believe that as long as we focus on the issue at hand and not at each other personally (such as name-calling), we shall have a constructive intelligent discussion. Easier said than done – a witty retort may sound like a wicked remark but that is what makes debating fun. And may the audience be the better judge.
Hi Andrew – thank you for the translation. Yes the elder child (especially son) is very important.
During my undergraduate days as a debater, my side called those who contradicted our ideas worthy opponents, without which we would be lonely. We thrashed each other and at the end of a debate, smiled and shook hands. The social media – such as this forum site – can be a boon or bane. It is faceless and expressionless amidst plenty of “noise”. Meanings can be misconstrued. I hope we can agree to disagree on any subject and once we step down from this virtual world, we can buy each other a coffee or give a hug, as the case may be.
Finally, back to the topic itself. “First come first served” is the de facto norm, whether you are white, brown or yellow. I will be surprised if the father holds the money and wait till his second son is ready to go (assuming he can afford to send only one). Interestingly, what has their mother – or mothers – have to say about this?
#7 Hi Charles,
It is ingrained in the Chinese psyche for centuries everywhere irrespective of their nationalities, be they from Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Taiwan or PRC to take advantage of everybody even of their own kind to make a fast buck. Even Peranakans are just as tricky as Chinese on money making schemes because of their inheritance of Chinese cultural methods. After all, they have Chinese blood inside them.
Please don’t mentioned that only PRC Chinese are moral bankrupts, how about politicians of a certain country who are grossly overpaying themselves with annual million dollar salaries plus extra 8 months’ annual bonuses while many poor in their country have for years been picking up cardboard discards and empty drink cans for sale to scrape for a meagre living?
The Cultural Revolution in China: after Mao’s wife Jiang Ching and three accomplices wanted power all by themselves and manipulated Chairman Mao who had beginning signs of Alzheimer’s. They had hoped to rule China after Mao’s death. It was not China’s mistake. It was the ‘gang of four’ who made used of a senile Mao to cement their power, but was checkmated by Deng Hsiao Ping, a master tactician of the People’s Liberation Army.
America is dead broke. The USA had to borrow heavily from China to continue with the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan. To date they are owing China trillions of dollars. No money, no talk; no money, no power. The US had midway scrapped the development plans for the hi-tech Commanche helicopter, said to be many times more advanced than their current ‘Apaches.’ The next world power no 1 waiting in the wings to take over from USA is China.
Looking forward to see you soon to have a chat over coffee one fine day.
Blessings
Terry
I would like to set the record straight. So far from the 13 replies above, and with mine will be No 14 (if no one beats me to submit earlier). We are all Singaporeans of ethnic Chinese origins. Our thinking and values, economically, culturally, morally, and spiritually differs from the mainline Chinese in mainland China, because we are to a certain extent influenced by western (British and American) values.
Also Chinese Singaporeans mostly have their origins from Hokkien, Cantonese, Teochew, Hainanese, and Hakka (the southern regions of China). There is a large area of China on the North and East of Southern China, with much larger populations.
Allow me to comment on Geraldine’s incident of the Chinese dad and the two sons. In the Chinese context, I would agree
with the father to send his first son to college (whereby his money will be depleted) and his second son has to go and get a job after high school (O level). If the first son manage to get into college, one should not thibk that he cannot make it. May be not with an A* result. There is chance that the first son will help the second son to college or university later on in life. In the Singaporean’s mind what if the first son does not help out, or if he marries, and the wife objects to helping the second son. In the true mainline Chinese family such things will not happen. If it happened there will be catastrophe. If the son’s wife is the problem; divorce will solve the problem. If the first son is the problem, the father will disown him (he will be regarded as pariah by the extended family and his village peers). I was in China just Feb 2012. A distant relative of mine was divorced by her husband because they have one daughter and no son. He remarried and got a son from the second marriage. He still have to support his daughter by the first marriage untill she is eighteen. He still visits his first wife and her father on friendly terms. We Singapoeans ssy HOW STRANGE. But this is normal to them. They must have a son to carry on the family name.
The law says one family can only allowed to have one child.
If you have a daughter already, and have a son, you lose your job (if you are a government worker or a worker with a government link company). So in the cae of my relative, the husband divorced her, set up another family in order to have a child, which happened to be a boy. If not, I would not be surprised should he try for a third family.
Sorry ladies, in mainline Chinese homes, if your hushand has to choose between wife and parents, generally the parents wins.
I am not saying whether their value systems is better or worse than ours.
There is an old saying “Nothing is good or bad, only thinking makes it so”
Hi Geraldine @ #10,
I think you have mistaken my meaning. I was not talking about student loans. What I meant was if the dad has sufficient funds for the education of only 1 child, and he intends to favour the elder child, simply because he is the eldest, to the detriment of the younger. I think this is the point you wanted to discuss.
Following Chinese tradition, the elder will be given the privilege. In return, he is expected to take care of the family, which includes helping with the education of his younger brother. But like you say, that expectation may be still-born, either because he is likely to fail or he can hardly take care of himself, less so the other members of his family. Hence your objection to the dad’s automatic response of favouring the elder.
My proposal, was still, for the dad to pay for the education of the elder, but to couch it such that the elder child has to take responsibility for the loan. Ie it is a ‘loan’ from the dad or the family. When and if the loan is repaid, the proceeds can be used for the education of the younger boy.
If the ‘loan’ is not repaid, either because he did not succeed in getting a pass, or even if he did, but chose not to repay it nevertheless, the blame is clearly on his shoulders.
This whole exercise is solely to give a choice to the elder brother, in the expectation that he will be able to rationalise his decision and to clarify the importance of his decision as it will affect his younger brother.
Perhaps the elder brother will know that is not confident about passing the rigours of a professional discipline and pass on the opportunity to the younger brother.
When the responsibility of repayment is clear, the decision to use the money becomes also clear. If he is not confident of passing and repaying the loan, he would not accept it. But then it will be his decision. Daddy is automatically absolved from a difficult decision.
Hi Charles #16
We are thinking from our Singaporean chinese values.
First, in the true mainline Chinese home in China, there is no such thing as the father making a loan to a son to study. The family is a homogeneous unit; he is the head in charge and decides to use the family money (we say it is his money) to educate which boy he thought fit.
If things like your para 4 happens, the son is to be blamed, but the father is accountable in that he has failed in his duty as a father. (1) Failed to endue the required moral integrity in the son. (2) Error of judgement, and therefore the resultant consequences.
In order not to be misinterpreted, I must add my caveat.
In talking about mainline Chinese family values, I am referring to those values pre Mao-Tze Tong, and it appears
the said values have re-surfaced. However, new values have also cropped up due to statutory rules.
Pre Mao-Tze Tong, seldom divorce, but first wife, second wife, third wife.
I am given to undestand the new rules allowed one man only one legal wife. The party that is seeking the divorce must pay monthly allowance to support the child up to 18 years old.
Hi All
I wonder what happens if this dad has a daughter first followed by a son.
Based on our Chinese tradition, the daughter will not be given priority for a college education. How sad, nevermind being unfair.
I am not a feminist but I believe in equality and all children, regardless of their gender should be loved and nurtured the same way.
Parents who have the means to provide for their child/children’s (both genders) college tuition and are willing to do so should be applauded if they do not have expectations in return. They are carrying out their duty as parents.
Great parents and lucky children.
Hi Geraldine #18
If the parents have sufficient means to send every one of their children to college, then it is obvious they will send all of them to college (if they are bright enough to gain entry into college) whether in Singapore or in China.
Our subject under discussion is that the Chinese parents in China, have limited means, and is able to send only one of the two sons to college. The elder boy not so academically inclined, but the younger boy more academically inclined. So who should the father (chief of the family unit) send to college?
The opinions had been expressed already in the various posts above.
Now you bring up a different scenario of the elder child being a girl, and the younger one is a boy. According to mainline Chinese in China, it is obvious the father will reserve the money to send the boy to college even the boy appears not so bright as the girl. I am not advocating that the father’s decision is universally correct. What I am saying is that in mainline Chinese homes, this is how the father will decide, and he has good reasons for it. (1) The son will be the one going to carry on the family name (this is very important in China, not so in Singapore). (2) After graduation, or no graduation, the son is bound by tradition
to continually support the family unit especially when the parents grow old. The daughter may be married to another family and thus become a member of that family.
This is how the mainline Chinese in China generally will decide on the education of their children, if they have limited means, and have to choose between options.
Hi guys!
What a wonderful discussion on Chinese values as related to providing education and support to family whether firstborn or later siblings.
I think that we are all Chinese (I’m a Peranakan Chinese) in our thinking and mindset. No matter how many generations or cultural revolutions or disparate locations, the Chinese mind has always coloured and influenced our decisions and actions.
Even in Singapore today, I would say that there is still the desire to have a son to carry on the family name (this may apply to the Indians as well) This desire or need may stem from long history where sons who can help on the farm are valued. And not only in the Asian world: the early European and western world also had this ideal. Large families were also looked forward to as a means of ensuring that parents were cared for in their old age, a sort of retirement plan. Remember that our grandparents or great-grandparents had plenty of children?
But back to the subject: I know personally of a Chinese family who, at great cost, sponsored their one bright son to medical college. He wasn’t the oldest but he was the only one who could make it. And he did, and he also did his filial duty of taking care of his aged parents and less well-off siblings.
I think the jury is still out… as there are as many situations and circumstances. But the Chinese mind and thinking still sway our present-day Singapore society.
Hi Kenneth @ #20,
Have you noticed that large families (meaning more than 1 here), usually have a child who is more capable, or fortunate, or brighter than the rest and goes on to do well. And when that happens he/she will take of the family, but perhaps to varying degrees?
I always think so, as if it was all ‘pre-planned’.
Is it always the male? Perhaps so, from my limited observation and limited statistical universe.
Is it always the eldest? No,I don’t think so, but again relying on my ltd social observation, and again from my ltd statistical pool
Hi All
It would be nice to hear from our Malay and Indian members on this subject.
Also, ladies, where are you?
This is getting interesting – and confusing.
Firstly, why has so much space been used to discuss about “Chinese culture”? There is no mention of mainland Chinese at the beginning. The “Chinese family” could be from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore or anywhere around the world. In any case, nationality or race has no relevance here. It is a common sense decision.
There is an obvious prejudice against the first boy to assume the following,
1. The older son is academically less capable than the younger (perhaps proven so, but I believe he is still qualified enough otherwise there is no case).
2. The older son may not even be able to support himself (why not?)
3. The older son may not give a damn to his younger brother. (what if he does?)
The next question is whether the father is right to expect the elder son to look after (financially-wise) his younger brother. Let’s assume the old man was only joking when “he smiles stupidly and says, well, it is the older brother’s responsibility, not his”. If he was serious, he needed to check his head. Anyway, it is a family problem and there is no law saying a person ought to look after his siblings. By the same token, the younger son – assuming he is the one selected to go – may not look after his elder brother duly. Reactions can be mutual.
Family affairs are complex. We don’t know the family and judgement is based on whatever limited information provided. Again, I must stress that nationality is not the issue here. . Everything being equal, first come first served is the universally accepted rule. Beyond that, we need to sit down with the old man to have a chat. By the way, there are now many families with children from different fathers and/or mothers. This is an important factor for a crucial decision.
Hi to all,
Here I will go on my personal experience with 10 siblings. I am the 5th child with 1 elder bro, 3 elder sisters, 3 younger bro and 2 sis. Parents are not English educated, father from India and mother SG. Only my father was working with PWD and my mum as house wife cared for the 10 children. Just wondering how they managed us and gave us all the basic education. Although they are gone and missed by all, we never regret as we had carried out our duty well till their last day. I am happy and proud of my parents who managed to bring up us all well with caring for each other. Even to date, if any of the siblings (all married and have a family for themselves) need help or sick, we gather to give our support. We are all close knitted and THANKS to my parents whom instill love and care for each other. They took full responsibilities of all us till we are married (5 sisters and 3 brothers were match maked). We give them our pay and get our monthly allowance. Best part of them is that they had even safe kept their own funeral expenses. When my father left us, my mum told us that the reason for this is simply that we should not quarrel over the funeral expenses and who contributed more or less. So, my parents style of bring up children was each of care for themselves with my parents supervising and ensuring that we get our basic needs till we are married.
Now, I have 3 children (28 female – graduate, 23 female – graduate and 18 male – poly). You will see a difference in about 5 yrs to each other. That’s a how I planned to ensure that I am able to cope up caring for them.They help themself in eduaction with the elder daughter caring for the other twos’ education and wellbeing. I also left it to the elder daughter to make her own decision and also for the other two but must keep us informed for guidance needed if any. Reason being their life style differs from ours. Although we did not put pressure on the elder daughter to care for her siblings, she cares for both of them well. As for their financial needs (education and marriage), I was and will be able to provide them if my present system of managing the family goes well. I also believe that we will be self sufficient financially for our own needs till we leave this world.
I believe as a parent, I have the full responsibility and liability for my children until they stand on their own foot. My present problem is dealing with my teenage son’s demands If beyond my control and management, I will refer him to my elder daughter who is able to manage him better then me. Hope that all goes well till I retire in 3 to 5 yrs time for active participation with SHC.
Sekaran
Wow! Congratulations Sekaran #24. Your father’s family is a near miracle family. You said he came from India to Singapore not English educated and worked in PWD. I must therefore, conclude that he was not a high salary Engineer. From your post I guess you must be about 50 now, and your father was of a generation borned in India not long before World War 2 or immediately after WW2.
What strike me is that you said, “We give them our pay and get our monthly allowances.” This must be some time around the late 1950s and 1960s.
Does anyone in SHC know of any Singapore borned parents who received all their working children’s pay and in return gave them allowances, in those days and age?
I do not know of any.
My question is,is such a value can only exist because the father originates from India?
I am not saying that it is a correct or incorrect value.
Ultimately, it depends on how heaven favours you.
I knew of a family which the father was a taxi driver, his wife a home-maker. He wants a son, First three turned out to be daughters, and the fourth a son. When the son was few years old, he died. The mother had to struggle to bring up the four childen.
Hello Wai Jin,
I refer to Sekaran#24 “We give them our pay and get our monthly allowances”.
My late mother-in-law who came from china at a young age, went through hardships being the eldest in her family of 4 siblings did the same to her 4 children.
All of her children brought home their salaries and handed them over to their mother and she would give them each $60/per month or thereabouts, enough for round trip to work and lunch daily. Her sons worked overtime for the extras to cover dating.
It didn’t seem strange then and was obediently accepted by her children. I remember that her daughters'(brides’) wedding angpows were surrendered to her too to help defray costs of their Wedding preparations inclusive of the Gold that the Daughters took with them to their new homes. These she said was her “Milk Money” for raising them. In fact, she also kept their wedding presents ( those that she liked)and only allowed them to take what she thought was appropriate to their new family homes.
They were really filial children who didn’t object to Mother’s strict regimes( Through fear or through obedience and respect or love for their mother… wonder?). Obviously her teachings were well ingrained in her children since they were young, my late mum-in law had it her way. Bless her.
I am sure that there were more than just 2 families in Singapore who practised such disciplines then.
Those were the days my friends….
Geok Suan.
Hi Geok Suan #26
Your mother-in-law came from China. Although she came from China at a young age, I asume that she must have remembered
the things in China when she was a child. For example at Chinese New Year, her relatives gave her ang pows. Her ang pows were taken by her mother who in turn would give ang pows to the relatives’ children. That is, the ang pow money was recycled, and in realty, it cost the mothers very little.
So when your moher-in-law grew up and have four children, she practised what was the normal things to do in China.
Her children handed her their salaries obediently, because somehow she had that value that attracted.command moral authority.
My question still is, is such a value asbsent in parents who were born in Singapore and grew up in Singapore because to some extent they have been influenced by western values (English and American).
In Sekaran #24, the father originated from India. In your case #26, the mother-in-law originated from China.
and in your case #28
That is what I am asking
Ooops! Sorry the last two lines were typing errors, they should have been deleted.
Hi guys and Wai Jin @#27
It is not only those who immigrated from two or three generations ago. I am a sixth generation Peranakan and many of the practices stated in the posts were followed by my mother (and I guess her mother before her).
My mother used to keep my ang pows, forced us to give a token to grandparents, kneel and bow to elders during Chinese New Year, call others to “eat” before starting on meals, etc. The thing is, I never felt pressured or reluctant to do these things; it was just expected and regarded as “normal”.
It is only in the past 40 years or so that Western and American concepts and values became more pronounced. I never asked or expected my children to do any of these, and they not need to. I just hope that my values dand example will be a good witness to them.
The salient value of the children giving their monthly salary to the parents and who in turn give to the children monthly allowances (according to their indivual needs), I think is virtually absent in families where both parents are born and bred in Singapore.
I am not saying such a value is good or bad. But it does show that the children themselves are not materialistic in a materialistic society.