Wanna go JB look see look see?
Look see what?
Guess!
Izit durian feast? Izit shopping spree? Izit massage and karaoke? Izit makan makan?
Nope. Nope. Nope. AND – nope.
I am organizing a “look see, look see” trip to JB for members who are thinking of retiring in JB.
(Please note I am NOT a property agent.)
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You find your way to pick-up point City Square – annex to CIQ building.
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In JB – the cost of renting a bus with capacity 20-30 pax will be shared amongst participants. Estimated at MR30-40 per pax. After you have paid – sorry no refund.
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Pay as you go – for your own meals.
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It is meant to be a free and easy outing, for you to gather information, walk walk, look see look see.
DATE OF LOOK SEE LOOK SEE: 29 June 2011 Wednesday.
Here is the intended schedule:
- 0900hr – Proceed from City Square to Sri Pulai Perdana, a housing estate in Kangkar Pulai for viewing of landed double-storey terrace properties. This is approximately 25-30km from JB city centre.
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1200hr – Lunch at Bumbu Asli Restaurant (Kelantanese/ Malay food), Danga Bay/Kolam Air – estimated cost of not more than RM25 per pax. Pay your own.
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1300hr – viewing of more properties at Straits View & Kolam Air areas which are approximately 2-3 kms from JB city centre.
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1600hr – Drop off at City Square. I bid you bye bye. You may wish to split up into groups to shop a bit, some may take the time to buy medicine at lower price. Have dinner before you leave JB.
Other info:
Daniel Kang and Ping, have kindly consented to be our host and guide in JB. They will provide some answers to FAQs. For those not familiar with Daniel Kang – he is a Singaporean living in JB.
This outing is suitable for:
1. Those who are thinking of retiring in JB – your CPF withdrawn sum will be worth twice as much.
2. Those who MAY NOT want to retire in JB, but would like to capitalize on the “favourable exchange rate” cost of living. For example – you are thinking of renting out your Singapore property, and using that SGD income to pay for your MR cost of living in JB. Is this feasible? Is this an attractive option?
3. Those who just wanna "look see look see", perhaps for their future consideration . Don’t be shy. Please do come.
Further note:
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We all know that being an EO is not an easy task. As on some trips that other E0s have organized – I have heard grumblings whenever someone feels neglected or overlooked. Some members also tend to be overly critical. If you are one of these people – please don’t come.
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However – if you are easy-going, able to accept unexpected inconveniences, pitch in to help instead of complain – please do come. I will enjoy your company. It will be an interesting day.
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Please be punctual: It is not nice for a few “late people” to keep the other “punctual people” waiting.
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Transport cost approximately SGD20 per pax, depending on the number of participants. Express your interest here, asap, no later than 17 June. Pay transport cost by 19 June – account detail to be announced soon.
Well done, Jacqueline. Thank you for the initiative.
A very interesting visit, and a worthwhile trip. It’s even better to see you have partnered Daniel Kang to help with this visit program. He is someone who lives in JB, and can share with us what makes JB an attractive place to retire.
And for those who are going on this trip, do share with us on this forum, what makes JB ticks for a retiree, after the visit. I am out of town, so wont be able to join. But, you have my full support.
And, for those who are not going on this trip, or who feels Singapore is still the place to retire, please do give other members the encouragement to go look see, look see. Yes, to be an EO is not an easy task, but being encouraging and positive, should be the way SHC supports aspiring EOs.
Thank you too to DanielK for the help in the background.
Terence Seah
Hi Jacqueline,
What a dramatic entrance! Full marks! :)
About the ‘field’ trip – my concern is the expected delay at the M’sian immigration. This may prevent us from reaching City Sq. at 9a.m. for the pick-up. Wouldn’t it be safer for the group to assemble at the Sge side and go thru immigration together?
My friend and i are interested in this special outing.
Terence #1
Thank you for your support, and words of encouragement.
This would be an eye-opening field trip for SHC members toying with the idea of retiring in JB. And also for those who simply want to stretch their SGD income/resources.
Even those members who are not yet retired, they could “look see look see” with an open mind. Especially those members who make frequent visits to JB, to enjoy the lower cost of living – food and entertainment.
Actually – Daniel Kang and his wife Ping – they are doing all the hard work for this JB visit. DANIEL KANG AND PING – THANK YOU!!!
Hi Jassmine #2
It’s good to hear from you.
I shall “register” you and your friend on the list. If your friend is not yet a member, please register him/her, can?
I share your concern about the “expected delay” at JB immigration. I hope by then (29 Jun), they would have rectified all the glitches.
I have set the date 29 Jun, a week day – after the June school holiday rush, and also to avoid the weekend congestion.
Hopefully – clearing JB immigration would be smooth.
To rent a Singapore bus that takes us all the way to JB and around JB, and return to Singapore, would be expensive. I want to keep the cost down. Hence – everyone get to JB pick up point on their own.
I’d like to tap on the expertise of many “frequent JB visitors”. Perhaps, they can teach others how to get across the causeway at minimum cost.
Closer to “departure date”, I shall remind all – to plan to arrive at City Square at 8am-8.30am, perhaps – enjoy a cup of kopi, eat curry pup, while waiting for the others.
I welcome any input/suggestion that you may have. Keep them coming. Have a great day, Jassmine.
Hi Jacqueline,
The cheapest and a faster way to go across the causeway is to take the MRT to Kranji MRT station and then take SBS bus 170. I suggest that you all assemble at Kranji MRT station at say 8am and then go together in the same SBS bus 170. Then all of you meet at City Square MacDonald outlet on City Sqare ground floor. Depending on the number of participants I suggest you can also book the taxis from JB and I believe this will be cheaper to travel. Of course if you are even more adventurous then take the local bus. Cheers..
Bobby
Hey Bobby Bok!
Long time no see! How are you?
Thank you! Thank you for your suggestion!
I like that! That route sounds straight forward, and at low cost.
Unless someone else suggests another faster and cheaper route, I’ll probably take this one.
Thanks again!
BTW – Are you interested to “look see”?
Hi Jacqueline,
I am fine, thank you. More keen in dancing activities lately. I drive in quite often to Jb and also “planted a flag” there for holiday and as investmn -not convenient to talk over this forum. Lately a bit busy with my real estate projects but I am sort of interested to join you to look see,look see. Will let u know next week. Cheers..
Bobby
Hi Janice,
Just saw this article about an incident involving 2 Singaporean ladies on Jun 9th.
Just to add some perspective on your trip. Sorry if it is offensive.
“Two Singaporeans were detained by Malaysian law enforcement officers on 9 June after they were accused of entering Malaysia illegally.
The pair were also ordered to strip and do squats with their hands on their ears for 10 times when they were sent to a detention centre.
Their ordeal happened last Thursday when Lim Lili and Zhan Tingting (not their real names) drove across the causeway for supper.
When they reached Malaysia customs, both women did not obtain entry chops on their passports.
According to Lianhe Zaobao, Lim and Zhan reached the customs at about 1.30am. Lim recalled that when she was at the customs, there was poor visibility because of the rain.
She drove into a lane that displayed a green light which signalled that the lane was in operation.
Lim recalled seeing that the lane had no immigration officer at the counter and it was at this point that they didn’t get their passports chopped. Zhan then alighted to purchase a “Touch N Go” prepaid card to pay for their entry into Malaysia.
As it was their first time experiencing the new biometric scanner at the counter, Lim used the intercom and tried to ask another officer for help. Both waited at the counter for five minutes before they decided to move on as Lim thought that there would be another counter for them to scan their fingers.
But instead, they drove into Johor Bahru without getting their passports chopped and fingerprints scanned. Realising something was wrong, Lim drove her car back to the customs to obtain an entry chop for their passports.
However, when reached the customs at 2am, they were accused of entering Malaysia illegally and questioned by Malaysian law enforcement officers.
“When my statement was taken, both of us tried to explain ourselves and requested for them to check with Singapore’s immigration department to check their departure timings and CCTV footage to clarify that once we knew there was a mistake, we quickly turned back,” said Zhan.
The officers then informed them of the offence and punishment curtly, emphasising the RM10,000 (S$4,069) and jail term.
Both women were detained in a room until 5pm on 10 June and were each allowed to make a phone call each. One of them called their friend while the other spoke to her brother, who contacted the Singapore High Commission in Malaysia and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
“Somebody with a higher rank came and started speaking to us in Malay. A translator told us if we were willing to accept a fine of RM3,000 (S$1,220) to resolve the situation,” said Zhan.
“And because we were so tired, we agreed to pay the fine and we signed an agreement that was in Malay,” Zhan added.
Officers led the two women to an ATM machine to withdraw cash to pay the fine. But the women received another shock when the officers suddenly said that they will be sent to a detention centre in Pontian district and will be detained for up to 14 days.
Lim then asked the officers, “I thought we already settled the case?”
They were later handcuffed and sent to the women’s division at the detention centre. Lim and Zhan met a female officer who ordered a strip search. Both women were made to strip and do squats with their hands on their ears for 10 times before they were allowed to change into their prison uniforms.
Zhan said: “The place was dirty and smelly, the roach-infested room was two-thirds of the basketball court, no bed, four wooden walls, with 50 people in it.”
“We were treated like criminals even before we were pronounced guilty, it was humiliating. Most of the detainees were Filipinos and Indonesians without passports. We were the only Singaporeans.”
After a night in the centre, the officers woke them up at 5am to do the Islamic morning prayers.
She said in the span of 24 hours, besides eating and praying, we were stuck in the room. When it was time to eat, we did not have forks and spoons and ate with our hands. We did not dare to finish eating, but the rest of the detainees told us to finish because if we did not, the officers will punish us.”
At the detention centre, the two of them were bitten by mosquitoes and bugs the whole night. Zhan’s hands and legs had red spots and her whole body hurt while Lim’s back and neck were bitten, and her skin was red and itchy.
Both women were detained at the centre for 24 hours before another immigration officer transferred them back to the Malaysia customs and detained them for another six hours.
Zhan said that other immigration officers mocked them and asked if the detention centre was like a five-star hotel.
On Friday night, an official handed both woman a warning letter and informed them that they will not be charged, jailed or fined.
When Lim went to retrieve her car, she saw it was badly scratched and damaged. They were also told by an immigration officer who handled their departure proceedings that they will not enter Malaysia easily next time.
Looking back, Zhan acknowledged their mistake but said, “This is only a trivial mistake. Does it warrant a need to detain us at the detention centre?”
The pair angrily added: “Next time even if you invite me over to Malaysia I wouldn’t want go in!”
They were worried that the incident would affect their jobs, and wanted to remind their friends to be more careful when travelling to Malaysia.
Under their lawyer’s advice, the pair might seek compensation from the Malaysian authorities.”
Additional reporting by Liyana Low.
Another post on this incident.
“Though Johor is only half an hour’s drive away and all the hype of shopping etc….i have made myself a promise never to go there ever since 1990 ever since i was threatened and robbed twice clearly in front of the immigration areas just at the entry point. Unbelievable and all the officers did was turn a blind eye and pretended not to see. I told them then i was robbed and they just smiled away and told me to take a lift back on a singapore registered car. What a shame and yet till today we still hear of such silly activities. Imagine another instance then when i drove my car in the officer told me i cant bring in some tapes i left in my car and told me to pay a fine of S$150 which he took with a smile and then told me to drive off. Rubbish…….Since then i decided thats it.”
Cheers
Hi Charles #8,
For clarification, where did you see the article on June 9. Secondly, who is Liyana Low?
Terence Seah
Hi Charles…I am sure many of us have seen the report too. Thanks for the timely reminder. Indeed, this is something we should never overlook. It is no exaggeration to say that the CUSTOM and IMMIGRATION Department is the most frightening department when you enter a country, any country. Just putting a label of “security threat” or “illegal immigrant” on you and they can throw you into a dungeon where your cries of help cannot be heard.
HAVING said that, there are tens of thousands visitors passing the Malaysian C+I daily – without incidents. Any thinking adult with no ill intention will know that they need to have their passport stamped when crossing the border. Particularly those who go at unearthly hours, like the two ladies mentioned.
So no worry folks. Be mindful, be truthful and you will have a wonderful time in JB. ENJOY !!!
Hi Charles
It is a reminder that crossing the CIQ checkout point into Johore can be full of risks especially for those a bit gullible and do not fully understand how the so-called law enfocement officers operate.
There were many incidents when the officers set up ingenious schemes to trap the travellers. For instance, they may mimic the action of stamping the passport, they may purposely leave an entry gate unguarded.
True, everyday there are thousands of visitors going through the CIQ without incidents. But the officers want to assume a low profile in their operation so as not to attract too much attention and blow their covers. Each month, they just randomly pick a number of visitors to achieve their quota. So you may be one of the unlucky or lucky ones.
Hi Jacqueline(EO), sorry for the typo,
and Terence, Daniel and Robert,
I only saw the article this morning (meaning about 1am+) in the Yahoo-Singapore website. The article has also been picked up by the STimes this morning. It has a few other details. The incident happened on June 9th.
“Liyana Low” is the journalist for the article in Yahoo
It is true that the Immigration authorities of any country has much powers, chief of which is to prevent your entry. I do not think any Immigration can arbitrarily detain/jail any foreign citizen without due cause, unless they have arbitrary detention in one of their laws. Most countries do not. Those that do have, have to apply it carefully and judiciously.
In the above case, the 2 ladies went back voluntrarily and were subject to harassment, threats and detention. There h/ps and passport were also taken away. I do not think the Immigration can do these or does this in ordinary circumstances. But it did and no explanation was forthcoming.
It is clear the M’sian Immigration harasses Singaporeans periodically and especially Singaporeans.
They are threatened, harassed, browbeaten, so as to frighten these people unnecessarily. From the report, it looks like there was no indication to think these 2 ladies were illegal immigrants, terrorists, or even criminals to start a ‘due cause’ interrogation.
They have done it before and they will continue to do it on a periodic basis, just to keep up their ‘authority’ or simply to vent. It is not good enough to say these 2 ladies were simply unlucky.
Have you heard of these incidents involving Japanese? US citizens? UK citizens? It does not happen because the relevant embassy ensures it does not happen. With Singapore, things are more complicated.
My intention to post the article was because it was timely and not to scare off these incidents as ‘usual’. But they are not unusual to those who know.
I was quite interested to visit for a ‘look-see’ and to meet Daniel Kang for some feedback. But I was wary of the ‘finger’ problem, hence my hesitation.
The best approach, for those who want to travel, is to know your rights, and to tell them so. Otherwise they will makan you and boast to all the Malaysians.
BTW Is Daniel Chan the same person as Daniel Kang?
Cheers
For those who are entertaining any ideas of buying a house in Malaysia, I suggest you speak to some who have bought and owned a house for some years in Malaysia first.
For those who are cognizant of the global problems being ‘shuffled into the future’, let me remind you of the following.
First there were the “PIGS” economies.
Then it became extended to “PIIGS”.
Next year it might become “PIIGS ‘r’ US”.
Do not be too surprised when Malaysia joins the “PIIGS’r’US” grouping in the not too distant future.
Malaysia Boleh.
Hi Charles #13, great tips!, M’sia’s sleazy corruptiom stinks!! hehe
I am impressed you saw the article so early in the morning. Just felt concerned with its accuracy; and the quote marks seemed to be in the wrong places. Good, you clarified.
Terence Seah
Hi Jacqueline and friends,
Those articles/reports from Charles/Yahoo,etc and all above are real. There are also many cases of robberies and even women handbags been snatched from motorcylists and even sustain serious injuries to victims that are not reported. Many of these crooks are illegal immigrants. I would advise that for ladies, please do not display your gold chains or gold ear rings etc if you are going into those places, roads or streets that are not as secured. I wanted to caution you about this high crime rate in JB earlier and Charles article is a timely reminder although it is an immigration problem caused partly by the two girls failure to get their passports stamped. Do go around in group and patronised those places where there are crowds you can easily blend in. If you want to get a house there I would suggest that you find one with security guards and with fencing. I have known of many cases where the houses belonging to Singaporeans and even rich locals are been burglared in. Even the chief of the security forces I heard in JB is not spared. But if you exercise some vigilance and behave like the locals and dont display your wealth openly then life will be ok. I also do heard that there are some enterprising Singaporeans who rent out their houses here in Singapore and then rent another place in JB at fraction of their Spore rental income and have a good time over there. Do take care and enjoy the trip. Cheers..
Hi Henry @ #14,
“M’sia’s sleazy corruptiom stinks”. Malaysia’s corruption is ‘institutionalised’. It has become an icon of the Malaysian political system. The cost of being voted in as an MP has gone up from M$200k pp (way back in the early 70s) to over M$2mill pp. Of course you can argue that inflation has added its toll to it.
One journalist who interviewed an IGP or some M’sian big-shot was told that the whole force (can’t remember if it was the M’sian Royal Police or the TDM) was told the incidence of corruption was as high as 97%. Of course this cannot be corroborated.
Malaysia lagi Boleh
Hi Terence @ #15.
No need to be impressed lah. Cannot sleep early lah.
Hi Bobby @ #16,
Thanks for your support. If you have friends in the Singapore Immigration or the Foreign Service, ask them what should you do if it happens to you, in M’sia or in any ASEAN country. In fact the press should do an article here, telling Sgpns what are their rights and what they should do. But it is another matter why after all these years nothing has been done. Like it is so complicated lidat.
As a start, if there is nothing wrong with your passport, ie it has more than 6 mos to expiry, not been in the washing machine etc and you are not wanted for any offence in that country and the Immigration asks you to leave the line of incoming visitors, DON’T. Ask if there is anything wrong with the pp or with you. Hold up the line. Let the other visitors complain. Better still if there is a white skin visitor behind you. You will unfortunately have to inconvenience all but do not leave the line.
Once you do that, you are at their mercy. Like Teoh Beng Huat, who died under mysterious circumstances, while in police custody, they can throw you off the roof, erase the camera tapes and insist that you committed suicide. How they know? Because they consulted a bomoh and he said so. The judge will of course believe in the testimony of an expert witness, despite the shameful and farcical nature.
When you come back, to civilisation, get the press and pass as much adverse publicity as you can. Cry mother, cry father, see your MP, go to a hospital, write in SHC and other forums etc. Then only after a consistent and PUBLIC effort, will they know it is not worth doing it again. If you don’t send a message, you cannot communicate.
If you don’t feel like doing it, then think of it as rape. If rape cases stay unreported, the incidence will only increade to the detriment of all.
Having said that M’sia is a nice place to holiday but be aware of your surroundings. There are many nice Malaysians around, some better behaved than the ugly Singaporean. You are going for a holiday, to enjoy yourselves, not to suffer and be traumatised.
Hi Jacqueline
All of a sudden all the guys starts talking about trapped, cheated, locked-up, robbed and raped in JB. I think all your customers have gone away.
I just when to JB this noon and get back about 4pm. There was a pretty Malay girl at the Johor immigration, she gave me a big smile, then the lady at the customs slouch in her chair and barely glance at my car with her half closed eyes….I love Malaysia.
The school holiday crowd was not too bad at the causeway. It took me 15 minutes to pass each checkpoint and on my return there were hardly anyone on the Malaysian side, but I have to queue for 20 minutes at the Singapore side.
To those of you going to JB to buy big houses or eat smelly durians. GO and have a good time.
I don’t recommend you buy the big houses but eat all the durians you can.
Jacq n Daniel,
The company I work for employs some Malaysian drivers to
ferry the workers aX the Causeway everyday. One of the
drivers who owns his own van (seat 10) previously said he
can bring us around in JB between the hours of 9am-5pm.
This may be an alternative to Bobby’s suggestion of taking
public transport all the way and changing taxis at different
locations.
I haven’t negotiate with him about the price. I agreeable,
and based on yr budget of S$20/pax, I’ll try to work with
him if he wants to do our biz. But first, need confirmation
of the no. going and if the $20 is flexible.
Let me know soonest as I’ll try to catch him tomorrow (Thu)
around 6.30pm when he ferries the nite shift workers.
james
This is one of the many reasons why I appreciate SHC….
Look at the comments in this thread…
Terence gave his support to the idea.
Jassmine patted me on the back for a “dramatic entrance”.
Bobby Bok, responded to my call “to tap on the expertise of frequent JB visitors”, and chipped in his “expertise” on how to get to pick-up point “ quick and cheap.”
Charles Chua – at an unearthly hour – took the initiative to remind everyone to be extra careful. Thank you.
Daniel Chan (Charles @ #12 – Daniel Chan is not the same entity as Daniel Kang) – stepped forward to moderate the “fear factor”. Thank you.
What happened to those two ladies, served very well to remind all to be ever vigilant, in a foreign country. This incident is repulsive. It should not have happened. I would urge young (and old) ladies, to have the common sense – just common sense – NOT to jump into a car at 0130hr and drive across the causeway “for supper”. Perhaps these two ladies were so bold because they are “JB frequent visitors”? And they know a safe spot for supper? If NOT the case, then these two ladies were exposing themselves to unwanted attention and trouble.
But – I have digressed?
Back to “why I appreciate SHC” –
Then, Tian Soo, sensing that the response to this field trip may be dampened, stepped forward to nudge a bit (“can go look see, but don’t do anything stupid, like buy a big house”.)
Terence – so you see – Just within this thread, we have so many good people. And many many more… I take this opportunity to re-emphasize that you (and we) should keep SHC going for as long as we can.
REGARDING THE “LOOK SEE” –
I wish to clarify –
I am not “for or against” Singaporeans living in JB. I know that the lack of personal safety and security is a major issue.
This is NOT a “go view property to buy property” outing.
I had organized this because I have heard so many people talk about it (living in JB). I thought it would be interesting to check it out.
If Daniel Kang (“A Singaporean living in JB”) did not agree to host and guide us in JB, this trip would not happen.
Go with an open mind, eyes wide. Explore your options.
Look see. Ask questions. Listen.
You (and I) may, or may not, like the answers.
Everyone – thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Everyone –
Have you decided yet?
I need to give the number of participants to Daniel Kang and Ping. Please let me know by end of day, 17 June.
My plan was –
If there are 20-30ppl, we’ll hire a bus in JB. The approx transport cost is SGD20/pax.
You need to get to the pick-up point in JB City Square – on your own. You may wish to form small groups of 4-5ppl, meet at Kranji MRT station and take bus 170 to JB.
However – if the number going, is but a handful of 5-10ppl – then these ppl can huddle and decide what to do.
Hi James @ #19 –
Thank you for your suggestion – 10 seater van sounds promising. Tell me more –
It’s a JB registered vehicle? The driver will pick us up from Singapore? drive us around JB according to our schedule? And drop us off back in Singapore? Pick up and drop off venue to be decided by us, later? Do get a quote from him. Worth considering. Thank you.
As of now – I DO NOT HAVE THE NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS, YET.
Jacq,
The driver is a Malaysian and driving a Malaysian van.
At 7am everyday, he’ll ferry our factory workers back to JB.
If we want pick-up at Kranji MRT (think this is a good
assembly venue), he’ll have to come back to SG after dropping
off the Malaysian workers. I’ll have to arrange with him on
that, not sure if that will add extra cost, will ask him
to quote if convenient.
The 3 destinations that you listed in the post, are they
firm or still flexible; ie, is there added venues along
the way?
Based on the no. responded so far (including Daniel & wife?)
I’ll temporarily put it as between 6-10, ok?
Let’s wait for tomorrow.
Hi James,
Pardon me for intruding. Sumtx bck, u did approached Sam with rgds 2 d use of this van and I am sure dat Sam did explained very clearly dat if d van is only registered 2 pick up fty wrkers, thus their insurance will only cover fty wrkers shd any accident/mishap shd happened. Hence, if u going 2 propose tis again, suggest u do a thorough check 1st as no 1 can be guarantee dat accident/mishap wuld happen at all.
Jacq, suggest dat u find out more details b4 commiting.
Happy a nice n safe trip is more impt lor… Cheers.. Dolly
Corruption is part of that country’s culture. Coupled with violence and cruelty targeted at ‘infidel’ Sporeans, the idea of a happy retirement in such a hostile environment is delusive.
Dear Jacq
Should we boycott that corrupt state for a while? i don’t feel in the mood to ‘fuel’ its economy.
Dolly,
Thanks for yr suggestion.
Insurance can always be purchased, it’s just a matter of
whether the price we pay covers that. Nevertheless, I’ll
definitely bring this up when getting the driver’s quote.
Jacq, based on Jass comment, not sure whether you want to
go ahead as planned.
Hi Dolly @ #24
Long time no see! How are you? And Ah Huat? I trust both are well.
You sure look good in the photo!
Thanks a lot for the alert. I will be mindful.
Cheers,
Jac
Dear Jassmine at #25,
My initial enthusiasm is somewhat dampened, too.
If you do not wish to go look see, I’d understand.
I’ll catch up with you another time.
Take care.
With warm regards,
Jac
James at #26
James – in view of the poor response to this field trip, it would not be necessary to hire the 10-seater van. Thank you for your help.
Jacq,
Thanks for your initiative and hardwork to organize this
event. Hope we can re-visit this topic again.
Daniel, hope to catch up with you in J.B one of these days.
Jassmine @ #25
Corruption is practised in everywhere. Just that we dont get to see or hear it. Singapore is also not spared. More than often we read news on this topic in our local media. If one is to say that “Corruption is part of that country’s culture. Coupled with violence and cruelty targeted at ‘infidel’ Sporeans”, this can only be a personal opinion. Likewise if someone says Singapore is such, I will definitely defense its reputation.
YA..tends to agree with Yew Kwong. No I do not have any special favour for Malaysia. But neither do I hate it like poison. Every country has its attractions and – if you like -disgusting characteristics. Singapore is no exception. Ask the domestic helpers and foreign workers here on work permits; or even the foreign students. Of course we can always say nobody asks them to come here. Similarly we don’t have to go to Malaysia. But why not ? Things there are half the price here. Not worth the risk? Then the best thing to do is to remain in our “safe and secure” albeit over-crowded abode till Kingdom come.
And talking about corruption – it is just a label. Making money is everybody’s wish. In some countries, they simply call it salary.
Hi Yew Kwong #31
Yes, it’s my opinion. And it’s my opinion when i say JB is a violent city. I’m boycotting it for the time being as a personal response to the recent cruel and humiliating treatment on 2 compatriots.
Hi Daniel C #32
i take your input as your personal opinion. However “making money is everybody’s wish” is but a generalization to me. But in SHC we respect personal opinions.
Hi Jacq #28
Don’t give up the idea. Perhaps when there is redress/closure for the 2 victims….can think of supporting their economy again.
Hi James #30,
i like your van idea. :)
Henry Yip posted a comment to JacHan, in another thread on drama acting. I chanced upon it. It brought a smile to my face. It brighten up my day. Thank you, Henry Yip.
I’ve copied your comment, and posted it here, where it should be:
“Henry Yip Says:
June 16th, 2011 at 11:24 pm
Dear JacHan, although I said the corruption up north stinks, I must hastily add that Malaysians are generally warm & nice people, and the country a nice place to visit & to have fun, provided we observe safety measures at all times.
I also want to applaud you & I quote you “We all know that being an EO is not an easy task. As on some trips that other E0s have organized – I have heard grumblings whenever someone feels neglected or overlooked. Some members also tend to be overly critical. If you are one of these people – please don’t come.
However – if you are easy-going, able to accept unexpected inconveniences, pitch in to help instead of complain – please do come. I will enjoy your company. It will be an interesting day.”
I just want to tell you “I SIMPLY LOVE YOUR STYLE!! I think you are worth emulating hehe… “
Good morning Folks!
The recent furor over the abusive treatment of our compatriots (at the JB CIQ), has caused many of us to re-think our priorities. Naturally, our thoughts are – “I am not setting foot into such a country, ever!”
And I am inclined to announce the cancellation of this field trip.
But – before I do that (cancel the trip) – let me check with you –
Are there a few ppl out there, thinking of going on this “look see look see”, but did not put up your hands?
I’d like to let you know that, if I have five ppl, Daniel and Ping is willing to host and guide us.
And – on our side – if one of us five ppl, is willing to drive his car into JB, and around JB, all five (including me) will pitch in to pay for fuel, toll cost. I would suggest paying for our host’s fuel and lunch, too.
Think about this. Let me know soon. If you are shy to comment in this thread, you may email jacqhan@gmail.com, as soon as possible. For quick contact, please include your mobile number.
Have a great day!
Hi Jacqueline,
Your trip has a good purpose. Going look see, look see is not something one can organise, without the right guides. We should appreciate Daniel and Ping, and yourself for this out-of-the-way effort.
I am keen to join you too; but unfortunately, I am out of town. So, if you have the numbers, and maybe get a taxi, why not? Go ahead and look see, look see.
Terence Seah
Hi Jac, wish you many many more brighten days ahead. cheers!
Hi Jacq,
I am going for a ‘look-see’ trip to recce Desaru next week.
If the jam is over I might join your ‘look-see’ trip.
If so all can go in my car.
I still haven’t met Daniel K and have heard of him from some SHC members.
But let’s see then, still some ‘ifs’ to go.
Cheers
Dear CharlesC, good morning & kudos to you Sir. I want to say that I really enjoy reading your writing. just some knowledgeable words written with goodwill & enthusiasm from you has already transported me & I’m sure many othes to China. Alas CharlesC, you dont write more often than I hope you would. You are the good kind of constructive writer that many SHCians hope to have more of in this club forum. If I am Terence, you are the type of good personality & writer that I hope to encourage to take ownership of this forum space as much as possible. In fact there are quite a few very good writers here who write good constructive post & always being respectfull of others. If I want my forum to be successfull, I wud encourge & nurture such a core group of good writers like Charles & many others to write everyday. Many other or new SHCians wud feel encouraged to want to participate & add vibrancy & dynamism to the subject matter & the forum. Then a virtuos cycle ensues, more positive participation in the forum will lead to more positive participation in activities in a very positive environment. Charles, see you at the cycling kiosk. cheers & hv a good weekend all.
Wah Henry,
Thanks for all the compliments man, I dunno wat to say. Very embarassing for me.
Can buy you lunch or not?
Cheers
Hi CharlesC #41,
I too share Henry’ observation. Knowledgeable, well read, but more important, caring and helpful. If only, you raise your hand.
Terence Seah
Wah et tu Terence?
Must be a blue moon day for me. Anyway thanks for your compliments. I shall humbly and gratefully accept it.
Mebbe I can frame it too.
Lunch on me.
When I was going back Ah Nee told me there must be other SHC members who have bought property in M’sia. Perhaps these members can post their experience, good or bad, for the benefit of the rest.
Admittedly a bad experience can be embarassing but not to share it would cause others to have the same experience. So I hope there will be some real stories here to edify and satisfy the as yet untested and innocent.
Those with successful experiences can also share. Don’t worry, we won’t ask to share in your good fortune (even tho’ I wouldn’t mind at all if asked!!)
I am sure Daniel K and Ping have many to tell too. So can please share, share?
Terence at #37
Terence – thank you for acknowledging our “out-of-the-way effort”.
And thank you for putting up your hand/s to indicate interest in this field trip.
No worries. The next time you plan to be in town, if you are still interested to “look see”, perhaps Daniel and Ping can host and guide you. Preferably, you should have a group of at least 5ppl. I wrote, “perhaps…”. So – do check with them.
Charles Chua at #39
It’s good of you to raise your hand.
Now that there are two of us, we wait for 3 more ppl. Do you have any one interested to come with us?
I have 3 shy SHC members’ email inquiries. They expressed interest, but apprehensive about the finger-scan thingy. And they feel pai-seh, cuz, “it is really really look see” only. Plus – it’s a week (working) day….
So many “IFs”…
Assuming we do have a group of 5, AND we are going in your car to JB – What are your plans for that day? You wrote that you will “recce Desaru”? So – how do you intend to fit that into the original “intended schedule”?
Let’s hear your thoughts…
Charles at #43 –
You are right, Charles. I heard that several SHC members already owned properties in Malaysia. They didn’t speak up, because they prefer to keep a low profile?
As with all situations, there are pros and cons. It’d be good to hear them speak up. We can all learn from their experience.
BTW – You said that you have not met Daniel and Ping. I just want to say that Daniel is a down-to-earth person. His wife, Ping, is good-looking and well-mannered. Both are warm and helpful people. They prefer to keep a low profile. So I try NOT to shine the spotlight on them…
Charles Chua #39
Further to my comment at #43, an email just came in: I have one confirmed want to go “look see look see”.
That makes three.
Sorry Charles – typo error –
I meant to type “Further to my comment at #45…..”
Hi Jacq,
The recce Desaru trip is different from yours.
You mind telling me who is coming on your side? No secrets now!
Cheers
Hi Jacqueline
I do have a property in JB. I was busy last week because someone broke into the house and stole all the water taps.They than leave the water running for ..I don’t know how many days. Many drug addicts have broken into the house whenever it is vacant. Few years back a prominent government official rented the property and refuse to pay rent after the first few months. We have to bag them to move out by promising them we would not sue them for the outstanding rent. Our lawyer told us that it may take us 10 years to settle our case and the tenant can continue to stay there while the court postpone our case again and again.
At one time, to keep people from breaking into the house we have to spend money to renovate the house and let some church group us it for free. Even then, they eventually moved out.
I offered the house to Ah Huat to keep mistresses, he don’t want. He offered it to his Buddhist friend for use as Orphanage for free and they don’t want.
Some of you would by now think that it must be a rundown house in an unsavery location. I leave that to the few SHC people who have seen it to describe it.
Luckily I just sold it and now waiting for my full payment to hand over the house gladly. I am so happy to be rid of it!!!.
For those of you who are thinking of holiday homes in Malaysia or elsewhere consider this.
1. If you go there once a week, how much time do you need to clean it up before you can settle down to enjoy it each week.
2. Do you enjoy house cleaning and gardening?
3. When you are not there,would anyone break into your house?
4. If you are in a condo. there must be legislation and legal system to enforce condo. rules or else it will quickly become a slum. In Malaysia this is a big problem.
5. When you chose a foreign home with the intension of using it as a base to travel the area. Make sure the places you want to visit is within one day travel and return distant. Otherwise pay for hotel rooms.
I am writing this from my personal experience. It is not necessary applicable to others, especially for those who are looking for a place for permanent stay. We all have different habits. If you want to stay in JB permanently after retirement, it can be possible. Apart from Danial Kang mentioned here, I also know other Singaporeans who a very happily settled in Johor and Thailand. I think you have to make it a permanent home not a holiday home.
Tian Soo at #50
Hi Tian Soo!
Thank you!
Thank you for speaking up. It’s good of you to share your experience. Unfortunately, it was not a pleasant one.
Your point 1 thru to 5, were all valid points.
Your point in the last paragraph, (point 6?), “You have to make it a permanent home not a holiday home” – is sound advice!
May I ask? When was that property bought? and what was the purchase price? And what was the SGD-RM exchange rate at that time?
And- How much did you sell it for recently?
If you don’t want to reveal that – I’d understand. I don’t mean to pry. But I had asked, cuz that info will help us to draw a better picture regarding the status quo of the Malaysian property market.
Again – thank you for your input. I appreciate it very much. I hope that your speaking up, will encourage others to speak up, too.
Cheers,
Jac
Charles Chua at #49 –
kekekekeke
you guess who izzit?
I’ll give you some hints –
1. She is Singaporean
2. She is 45 and above
3. She is not short.
4. She is not fat.
5. She is not tall and thin, either! kekekekekeke
Alamak – I said, “SHE”. Now you know that it’s a woman!
aiyah….. silly me….
Jacqueline
You ask a very Singaporean question…How Much?
The answer is, I did not profit from it.
I try not to think of money now that I have a little that I can live on for the cheap way I live. I will be encouraging ‘investment’ thinking once I answer your dollar and cents question.
Making money is not my hobby. Searching for happiness is, and because I don’t have lots of money,I look elsewhere for happiness. Unfortunately most of the things that can give me happiness are becoming too strainuous, illegal or sinful.
Time is running out for me, so spending time calculating profits is not wise.
Hi Jacq,
Don’t play games with me. If you want to add another “IF” into the equation, there are already too many.
Hi Charles #54
I have two more confirm want to go look see. That makes 5.
These three who emailed me privately, prefer not to be mentioned in this forum. I respect their wishes.
Give me your email. I’ll let you know.
Hi Jacq,
If you dont tell me who is coming in my car. I am not going
Hi Tian Soo #53
Reading between the lines – you are in a rather sombre mood…talking about “Making money is not my hobby. Searching for happiness is, and because I don’t have lots of money,I look elsewhere for happiness…. Time is running out for me…”
Speaking of “Time is running out for me….” Your post on “YOU ARE NEXT” struck a chord with me. The abuse of the elderly – something must be done, can be done. Let me gather my thoughts, I am drafting a proposal.
Oops – I got carried away… I will touch base with you on your thread “YOU ARE NEXT”, in due course.
Back on track – your comment #53
You are right – I have asked a “Singaporean Question – How much?”
I am a Singaporean – thoroughbred. The question “how much?” is never far from my mind….
Especially – on this topic of investment and finances, it is difficult not to mention the dollars and cents.
In my comment #51, I did say –
“If you don’t want to reveal that – I’d understand. I don’t mean to pry. But I had asked, cuz that info will help us to draw a better picture regarding the status quo of the Malaysian property market.”
What I wanted to learn was – did the property market in Malaysia appreciate? If yes – by how many percentage point per annum? And the ringgit’s exchange rate? It slid from 1.56 to 2.20 to SGD. On a long term scenario, is buying a Malaysian property an attractive option?
Hi Jacqueline,
It is difficult to project long term trend of any foreign exchange. Look at the British pound, the Australian dollar, even the US dollar.
Reading Tian Soo’s comment #50, I too believe that the wisest decision in investing in an overseas property is to treat that property as a permanent home, not for investment and not for holiday. If I want to go on a holiday, I look for a cheap flight and get my hotel recommendations from Kenneth. Dont forget properties are usually not liquid.
Terence Seah
#55 & #56
Hi Jac
As EO for this event organised for SHC members, names of members attending should not be private unless it is opened to non-members.
Hi Charles
U are right in asking for their names.
Hi Tian Soo,
First they tell you, don’t worry, ‘only look-see, look-see’.
Then they start to play mind games with you to see what is available inside. Then they start to strip you, to see how far they can go. They never see this process as an invasion of privacy.
Hi Jacq,
You cannot use an opening phrase like “I don’t mean to pry” and subsequently ask direct questions like “When was that property bought? and what was the purchase price? And what was the SGD-RM exchange rate at that time?
And- How much did you sell it for recently?”.
Neither are you excused when you say, actually you were only trying to ask- “On a long term scenario, is buying a Malaysian property an attractive option?”.
Prof Galbraith said famously, “In the long term we are all dead.”
As to your subsequent question on Malaysian property, your opinion is as valid to you as my is as valid to me.
I hope you do not bait anyone else with these questions.
Hi Charles,
Good morning, I am one of them. It was not intended to cause any confusion. My apology.
Cheers, pai seh la, hehe
Lilian
Charles Chua #60
I am taken aback by your comment #60. No – “taken aback” was an understatement. I am offended. It is my lifestyle habit – whenever I am offended/angered, I must time to calm down. Once I have control over my emotion, I will respond.
In the meantime – did you check your email? In response to your comment #54, I have emailed the names to you at 8.40pm on 19 Jun. I gave you their names in a private email – out of respect for you, for stepping forward as the driver of the small group. I have re-send that email again this morning at 8.44am. It was sent to ccangels04@yahoo.com.sg. It’d be nice of you to acknowledge receipt.
Also – I have urged the other three SHC members to step forward in this thread – to express their interest in public.
Hi Jacqueline and Lilian,
I sent a reply to Jacqueline this morning. I said I have decided not to go for the JB look-see trip.
When you send an email and it does not bounce back, that means that it has been received. I don’t acknowledge receipt of emails. I do not know who does. I only reply to them, which I did.
With all due respect to all parties, I have decided not to go for this JB look-see trip.
Hi Charles,
Im no 2.thank u for volunteering to be the driver I feel so comfortable to b with familiar people & u 2 Lilian …goody ..its going to b a fun day!!Wonder who’s the third one??
Have a nice day everyone!
Oh dear…I didnt c this response @63 by Charles…r is it due to my excitement that I have overlooked it…well never mind …tks anyway Charles..We will find our way there then, Jacq,lillian ,etc ok?
Charles Chua #60 –
It is a beautiful day today. I ought to be taking a stroll at Botanic Gardens, or Hork Park, enjoying the cool breeze and serenity.
Instead – I feel compelled to sit by my laptop, typing a reply to your comment. It is one hour wasted on a beautiful day. “Time is running out …” for me, too. And for many of us – Silverhaired.
Yes – I think I have calmed down, enough, to give a civil reply to your unfounded assumptions and unfair criticisms.
You wrote, and I quote : Hi Tian Soo, First they tell you, don’t worry, ‘only look-see, look-see’.
Then they start to play mind games with you to see what is available inside. Then they start to strip you, to see how far they can go. They never see this process as an invasion of privacy. Unquote.
Charles Chua – I am baffled –
Who are “they”? Your “they” referred to Jacqueline, Daniel, Ping?
What “mind games to see what is available inside”? “Start to strip you, to see how far they can go”? “invasion of privacy”?
Charles Chua – those were very offensive statements.
What was that all about?
All I did, was to ask Tian Soo, a “very Singaporean question – how much?”, as Tian Soo put it….
And Tian Soo responded in a civil manner, and respectfully – that he did not want to answer my question of “how much?”. That- was that.
You – you came out with a machine-gun. Shooting blindly.
You wrote and I quote: Hi Jacq, You cannot use an opening phrase like “I don’t mean to pry” and subsequently ask direct questions like “When was that property bought? and what was the purchase price? And what was the SGD-RM exchange rate at that time? And- How much did you sell it for recently?”. Unquote.
I can ask any question I want. It’s my prerogative. Tian Soo don’t have to answer, if he doesn’t want to. It’s his prerogative.
What were you thinking, Charles?
You wrote and I quote: Neither are you excused when you say, actually you were only trying to ask- “On a long term scenario, is buying a Malaysian property an attractive option?” Unquote.
In writing – as well as in conversation – sometimes certain thoughts don’t come out the way it was intended.
Sometimes, the writer, or speaker, need to elaborate or clarify a statement or a question.
If my questions to Tian Soo did not go down well with you, you could ask me to clarify.
Or – you could nudge me a bit, and say, “Jacqueline, dollars and cents are sensitive issues. I don’t think Tian Soo want to answer that…”
Again I ask – What were you thinking, Charles? You rebuked me (a fellow Silverhaired), in a public forum.
I was simply trying to engage fellow SHCians in a lively discussion…. as you did, earlier, with your “well read and knowledgeable” opinion/comments.
Next, you wrote and I quote: As to your subsequent question on Malaysian property, your opinion is as valid to you as my is as valid to me. I hope you do not bait anyone else with these questions. Unquote.
Charles – I have NOT formed an opinion regarding the Malaysian property. I have NOT stated an opinion, at all. I am trying to form an opinion, be it good or bad. I want to learn from those who have already bought properties in Malaysia.
That explained why I wanted to “look see”, that explained why I invited Malaysian properties owners to share their experiences by speaking up.
In conclusion – I wish to state that – I enjoy healthy exchanges that are constructive, informative, as well as nurturing to the spirit.
Charles – This exchange between you and me, is now closed. For – I do not wish to waste time and energy on pointless rebuttals. Yes – I have better things to do.
The day is still beautiful – if I hurry, I can still make it to Hort Park, to enjoy the evening breeze before the sun sets on me …..
Hi Charles, Jacq,
I have been following up this thread right from the beginning, and I had been a bit worried that we would get into this situation.
When I get into such a situation, I do become very uneasy, sometimes cannot sleep, and sometimes, I wish I can turn the other person into a frog. No matter what others tell me, I wont accept, and finally I decide to leave the group. Why would I want to mix up with other people who just get on my nerve.
I wont advise how to get out of this situation because I dont know how. But I know what I usually do. I just keep mum for a while. We learn from tis situation too.
Thank you.
Terence Seab
Hi Jacqueline
I hope you had a good walk in the gardens today. I walk among plants and animals very often. It helps me to keep in balance. I also learn Tai Chi so I am apt at evading what I consider unpleasant things in my daily life. Grace Wo-Ng #65 is a good example of masterful handling of a tricking situation.
CharlseC and myself are going for a long drive in a few days. We plan that a while back. If he has not forgotten about this episode, I am sure he would once he get behind the wheel of his car.
I will remember to get some double strength Panadol for Terence on my way back.
I do understand your question in #57. The reason I did not provide the figures is not because I have any secrets. I have watched many SHC members eagerly looking at how to make more money. It is a product of the society we live in. But I think it is wrong and I try not to encourage it.
My view of investment is. If you are already over 45 and have enough to see you through this life, we should not be looking to make more money. If we cannot make millions before, it is unlikely we can do it now. It is more probable that we may lose our money and do not have another chance to make it back because time is not on our side. Even if you do not lose your money, I think the constant worry of your investment will make it difficult for you to smile, let alone laugh. We should definitely look for things that make us laugh and not waste our time try to get poor.
I do encourage you to be different and not be a typical Singaporean. Go to Johor and ‘look see look see’, than drop by the durian stall and laugh because you still have your money and the appetite to enjoy the fruit.
hi jacq ,
just a word of advise…be prepare for slow internet , slow in service like resturant , goverment department etc…
& if u staying on yr own ..risk factor will be higher too…
i also agree with wat our eco man tian soo # 50 post…
stay in posh area ..worry about crime…betta in a condo lor… sam huat
Hi Tian Soo
I had a lovely stroll, thank you.
The cloud was chased away. The ground was a tad warmer than I would have liked… the flowers were beautiful…
No worries – “this episode” was already behind me. Life is too short to stay angry.
Your comments conveyed that you have a good grasp of what you want out of your life.
Your views on investments for/by the people age above 45, are “spot on”.
Your outlook on life – refreshing.
To borrow a phrase from Henry Yip, “I think you are worth emulating.”
Allow me round off this comment with an appropriate quote :
“Happiness is not found at the end of the road, it is experienced along the way. So take not for granted each moment of your life and you will find a reason to be happy each day. Don’t worry so much about tomorrow that you forget to live today.”
Cheers Tian Soo. Live long and prosper.
Hi Sam #69
Good advice! Especially – “if u staying on yr own ..risk factor will be higher too… ”
Yep, I must consider this point more carefully. Because – those Singaporeans who are living in JB quietly, and without much hassle, they are usually a family of several ppl, and at all times, there will be somebody at home….
How come you know so much about JB? Do you live there? Or have a second home there?
Dun worry – I promise – I promise – I will NOT ask you “HOW MUCH???”
Thank you for your input.
Cheers Huat Huat Huat.
Hi Terence at #67
Dun worry. I have already put this episode behind me.
And Tian Soo will be back in a few days with extra strong panadols for you.
Enjoy your sleep. Sweet dreams…. Terence.
ah jacq @ # 71….
hahahahha my late papa used to owe a huse lah…
i still commute 3 times a week to there for bread n butter lor…arboh ..my dolly jia lak liao….also use to born in msia when i was a baby mama bring me to spore lor….
have been to most part of johore with dolly too… for makan & want to cheong …this is de BEST plc lor….
sam huat huat huat
Hi All,
I read with interest the points put forward in this forum topic. I totally agree with the prudent advices given by forum members, e.g. Charles, Lim TS, Sam Goh and others. I had ever been “shown around” with newly completed houses in JB (thro the 2nd Link). The problem, as with any other transaction, is, the interested buyer must be as knowledgeable as the seller, if not more.
In my life journey (on my conveyor belt), I have came across many stories on investing in overseas property. One of the most documented (real life story in details) is the one I have provided the link below:
http://goldenyear.blogspot.com/2006/08/my-apartment-in-shanghai.html
Happy reading.
hewlee
So sorry, I’ve just seen this today, can I still join, as I would like to rent a place in JB, so I think this trip will be good for me.
Hi Vivian,
Please let me know your requirements.
Type of dwellng(Apartment or house),how far from CIQ and budget.
Kindly reply to my personal email: dkca8@hotmail.com
Rgds
Daniel