600,000 people over 65 by 2020; the latest budget, CPF Life, increasing productivity. What do all these mean to us, SilverHairs?

We are not able to turn back the clock.  In less than 10 years time, there will be more than 600,000 Singaporeans over the age of 65.  By 2030, there will be ONE million Singaporeans over 65 years of age.  We may be fit now, but we are a part of this group.

In recent weeks, there is a lot of talk in the papers and in forums about the budget, and what it means to the elderly and the poor.  There is also stress of improving productivity.  And, changes made to CPF Life.  And, now one day a week off for domestic helpers.  What does this mean to us?  

Join the discussion in SilverHairsClub.com; share your thoughts.  Strictly no politics.  Let’s welcome as many positive ideas and suggestions.  Hopefully, some government body or corporation may pick up some of our feedback.

Terence Seah 

 

Author: Terence Seah

Founder

34 thoughts on “600,000 people over 65 by 2020; the latest budget, CPF Life, increasing productivity. What do all these mean to us, SilverHairs?”

  1. Hi Terence and all SHCs

    You’ve overstated the date on when we’ll have 600,000 silverhairs: It’s 2030 and not 2020! Oops, it’s just a mistake in your headline. Anyway by 2030 there’s a chance that I won’t make up that 600,000.

    Yes, as I’ve said in previous posts, we have to address the issues of retirement living and aging. And the government realizes that very much, so the policy changes on extending employment age, raising productivity, skills re-training, CPF Life and the provision of more hospital beds, chronic healthcare and medical facilities.

    On the issue of giving maids a day off a week: I think that this is a humane thing to do but there are many maids who are caregivers to dependent patients and elderly. What are they to do? They need daily attention and assistance, and this will leave them high and dry (or is it wet?).

    Can this make an opportunity for the care/companionship service for SHC Blue Helmet?

    P.S. I notice that I don’t have the “Latest Comments” shortcut anymore. This is a useful tab for checking out the latest comments without having to scroll through masses of posts. Can we have this back, please?

  2. Hi Kenneth and everybody,

    For the moment, plse use Latest Posts and then comments. It shd work. Likely Latest comments will be back in April.

    As for numbers, all the reports I read point to 600,000 over 65 by 2020, and 1m over 65 by 2030. Yes, we are one of them. Kot Kot.

    Terence Seah

  3. Hi Terence,
    Wow,you certainly provide a ginormous gamut of gobbledy-gook in your headline.
    Speaking for myself:
    a) I am wondering what is in store for me when I get to 65, other than what I have put in my plan.I hope the challenges that I may face are not too difficult for me to handle.
    b)The Budget talk and domestic helpers are out of my radar range.*The fact that my calculator can only accomodate up to 8 digits,it will be impossible for me to take part in any budget debate of a National scale. *That I am the domestic help in my own home, making 1 off-day a week mandatory for domestic help means my work load is doubled the next day. This will be the same for domestic workers out there.Technically, 1 off day a week, effectively more work after that.Why not take the payment in lieu instead?
    c)It is a bit to late to talk to me about productivity in whatever sense be it babies or GNP(gross national product). But if it is about productivity like working at jobs that are low in pay and dignity, I don’t think I can stomach that.
    d) As far as CPF Life is concerned, I did not subscribe to it for the simple fact that the premium set aside for the plan will not earn any more interest and the age when the benefits kick in is some 80 figure- me? not interested

  4. Re: off day for maids, I have no qualms for maids to have a rest day – it’s totally humane of course. But I come across some of them using their Sunday rest days to earn side income doing part-time work for two households for one whole day @ $12 – $15 per hour, so it defeats the purpose. It’s worse the next day for the poor unsuspecting employer if the tired maid doesnt work properly, cos she would have been overworked the day before since she is paid by the hour. I dont know how prevailing is this and I hope it will not escalate when the new law comes into effect.

  5. Oooopps!

    I missed it again… can now blame it on cognitive impairment at my age! So it is ONE million by 2030 and so our SHC will automatically have a surge in members… ?

    Wendy: I’m already there at 65 this year! You may have quite a few years to go, but don’t despair, you’ll get there! But what to do in the coming years, with the uncertain economic situation and possible conflict in the Middle East, the rising power of China and the impact of US and EU debt crises? This is a topic for our investment and retirement gurus… where are they?

    CPF Life? I thought the payments commence at age 65? Am I mistaken? This is a viable scheme for those with some money in CPF funds (S$55,000 or more) as it provides a monthly payment for life. The only bad thing is that the payout amount is fixed and does not address inflation issues.

    And ONE MILLION silver hairs will be jamming the buses and MRT by the year 2030; imagine the slower transport because they will be taking that much longer to board and alight!

  6. I would think that if we are fully retired; and not working part time or fulltime, then we are no longer productive to the country; as we don’t contribute tax to the economy.

    In my mind, being more productive means making more per hour. So, if I or my company use to make $10 an hour; and now I or the company makes $12 per hour, I or the company has become more productive. This justifies my $2 pay rise.

    Is this what is meant by being more productive?

    Terence Seah

  7. My first reaction to multi-ple subject is to hum the song Que Sera Sera. But realize it only exist in films. I real life we have to plan and make choices.

    In my opinion, no one jacket can fit every size. In our society, as a rule of thumb, there are (1) the people of the highest echelon (2)the upper middle, (3) the middle middle, (4) the lower middle, (5)the poor, and (6)the ones below the poverty line.
    To the group (1)life related to monetary cost is never a problem. But they cannot escape the problem of health and personal emotions; be it sex related or otherwise. To the group (2)their prospect in life is more or less similar to group (1), the only difference is that they do not command or attract attention. To group (3), their problem will come if they got hit by dire illness. They can sell off their assets and down-grade. To group (4)life will be hard work all their days. If they lose their job or fell ill, hard luck; they will become poor (group 5) — no government assistance can bring them up to group (4).
    From my observation there are no SHC members from group (1), (2), (5), or (6).

    Therefore SHC members have to plan and make choices. It may be good if members can be meet among themselves to share their aspirations,hopes, and fears.

  8. 1. Maid’s off day is humane but i think the issue should be addressed differently – that they are our helpers/employees -but not 24/7 bondage. I think they should not live-in because it makes our children and ourselves very dependent on them, such as ” get me a drink, wash my shoes, carry my bag.. etc”. Women working full-time is tough life because work doesn’t end at the office – it is continued at home and therefore we need a maid at home. Unless the mindset is changed/adjusted/whatever, the maid issue will remain. My personal experience was that my kids were so reliant on them and i felt that such upbringing is just not right – so i become the “maid” but not one that they can “bully” or shout “wash my shoes”. I think i will need help when i am weak/sick but i don’t think i want to have a live-in maid. The idea of retirement village sound like a better option for the aging and generally the more educated population.
    2. Productivity – do we have to equate everything with monetary value? That $$ contribution and taxes justifies our existence – or else we are merely occupying space on this earth, breathing the air, and eating the food? It is so depressing to equate that once I’m no longer “able” or have become disabled, i therefore have no economic value so have no reason to be here.. :(

  9. I am surprised that domestic helpers (dh) in Sg are not given a day off!

    In HK, it is mandatory way back when.

    What the dh do on their off day is really none of the employers’ business. Whether they work part time at other households (which is not allowed here), part-time selling sexual services, busy catching up with their fellow countrymen, yakking, gossiping to death etc etc is a matter of luck for their employers.

    You will always have nice, decent, hardworking dh who work for us to send money home to support their families – lucky for us or have disgusting, horrible dh whose agenda is to go overseas and cause problems.

    Matter of luck, really, for employers and for that matter, for dh, too (having nice or disgusting employers).

    In HK, a dh visa is strictly issued and valid for 1 employer whose name will be stated in their passport on their visa and is non-transferable.

  10. Hi Kenneth #6,
    The CPF payout commences at the DDA (draw down age)which is 65 yrs in my case.Then for the next 20yrs, I get my CPF money back in monthly installment.That will mean that I get paid all the way to age 85yrs with or without CPF life. Provided I live beyond 85yrs, then I continue to get paid not by CPF but by CPF Life.You see my concern here is getting back 20yrs installment is already a tall order let alone anymore additional years.In the mean time, with CPF life, my monthly installment is a reduced sum compared to without CPF life.This whole scheme does not make money sense to me so I did not subscribe to it.

  11. Hi guys!

    I am so pleased that many have written their thoughts and views on the aging and retirement issues affecting our lives. As we move further into our senior years, more vital and pressing decisions have to be made: whether on working, saving and investing our money, health and medical, and day-to-day living.

    What I’d like to encourage is more comments and views from the “silent majority”: the many who read the comments and I’m sure would want some of their needs known. I want to encourage many more to give their thoughts no matter how trivail they think they are.

    And where is all this leading to?

    Firstly, I would like to see SHC coming up with more ideas and suggestions to address all the issues discussed.

    Secondly, from the many comments, we can distill the pressing and important needs, and address them. We can arrange talks, interest groups, some members can even conduct classes, or we can get outside speakers and experts on the subjects of interest.

    Let us build a more vibrant SHC with contributions from every member.

  12. Hi Terence,

    Anything can happen to Anyone, Any time, Anywhere. I don’t want to make plans for the next 10, 20 years ahead as I doubt very much I’ll be around to see the plans materialize…:p If there’s one thing I dread, it is to lose my teeth, my hair, my sight, my hearing, my mobility and my memory. All these are part and parcel of aging and if one or more of these eventually do occur, I reckon I’ll be a PITA so it’s best to stay at home. :)

    On the topic of maids’ off day, what about those employers who take their maids for outings and even travels? Aren’t those considered ‘breaks’ for the maids? Rather than letting maids have one whole day of free time why not let them have free time, like mini breaks, throughout the week? I do not think it is right to make the maids work from 5 am to 11 pm as many local Singaporean employers do. Maids should be given a roster of daily chores they are to do with rest time of 15 mins – 30 mins in between tedious housework like mopping/vacumming the entire house. They should be allowed to sit and rest with a drink before embarking on their next task. Also, employers should remember their maids are helping them cope with either housework, child-minding/aged-minding and not expect them to do EVERYTHING everyday. How can a maid mind the baby and cook dinner for the family at the same time? This kind of exploitation is what I abhor. The worst thing is when employers whined about their maids’ forgetfulness and clumsiness. Who wouldn’t be if they have to do so many things day in day out without any rest and inadequate sleep? If employers treat their maids as how they themselves want to be treated if they are in the maids’ shoes, I believe whether they have a full day off on Sundays will not be an issue. The risk of maids running wild on their off days are risks employers have to take.

    Cheers
    Ros

  13. Hi Geraldine

    The situation is this: Some maids get 1 day off a month, some twice, some every Sunday off. And there are some ridiculous work expectations of maids eg. maid works for employer’s daughter/son’s family home in addition to the employer’s, and no day off on top of that. But there are just too many. But it does impact on anyone’s physical state of health when one is overworked, so it should be of concern to employers too. Why then would organisations want employees to get permission to do part-time work outside? Employers overworking the maid is not OK, but maids overworking themselves is OK? In Singapore, the norm for new maids is so long as her employer is paying off her loan through monthly salary deductions, there is no off day until her loan is fully repaid. Generally it takes 7 – 8 months to pay off the whole loan. But I think that there should be some compassion and not treat the maid like a prisoner in one’s home. It’s not the same scenario in HK where there is no levy to be paid by employers, and maids owing loan sharks are quite common – my former maid was caught in the situation herself. We cannot compare between what happens in HK and Singapore because it’s not apple for apple.

  14. Hi-Kenneth #2
    regarding shortcut to further comments. whilst waiting for Terence to reinstate the shortcut, what I did is to bookmark
    the individual post that I am interested or involved in and then follow up daily with the link created.
    cheers Peter

  15. Hi-Dear all
    Without waiting for 2020 I am already in the 65 age group.
    Regarding the poor and needy it is impossible to have none in any country including the so-called rich nations.
    The issue here is that the defination of “poor” differs in many countries. What the poor has in Sin may be a luxury in Thailand or Philipines.
    I visited 1 room flats housing the needy and out of 10 at least 6 have the basics such as a TV set, fan and fridge. 20 years ago it is probably a luxury but today it is a necessity.
    Some even have maid to look after them because it is probably more expensive to send the folk to nursing home.

    My quess is the future 65ers will be more educated and more able to take care of themselves in terms of abilty to do basics like banking or dealing with govt agencies.

    In terms of monatary support do not expect govt to support you. What they give out will always go back to the govt coffers in terms of indirect taxes. Personally I also do not expect our children to support us so any support should be regarded as a bonus.

    For my SHC friends who are looking forward to 2030 I share my philosophy
    a) Be prudent in your spending. Do not spend more than you
    earn. Try to pay your bills by Giro including your
    credit card bills
    b) buy insurance for your savings and medical needs.
    c) any extra money invest in them be it stocks or properties
    d) If your children has left the nest dispense of hiring a
    maid. it is a big expense.
    e) lead a healthy lifestyle. No quarantee you won’t get
    sick but the odds are lower.

    To summarize it is good to start well and finish well.

  16. Good afternoon, Susan

    I am not making comparisons – there is nothing to compare; just basic human rights for everyone who works, whether one is paid in the millions or paid a pittance in any country/company.

    As one of the topics is dh having a day off and this seems to be of concern for some employers which I think it’s weird and exploitative.

    Although there is no levy for HK employers, the minimum salary is high – around S$630pm. Just called my ex dh to find out the latest labour law and she asked me if I am looking for a dh. Told her I am looking for a JOB. Kakakakaa.

    Yes, it’s ridiculous for the dh to work for other members of the family in addition to the contracted employer or even in the employer’s shop/office.

    Over here, it is a felony and employers who are found guilty of having their dh work outside of the stated home address are put in jail. I totally support this.

    To quote Ros’ comment #13:

    ‘If employers treat their maids as how they themselves want to be treated if they are in the maids’ shoes, I believe whether they have a full day off on Sundays will not be an issue. The risk of maids running wild on their off days are risks employers have to take.’

    Right on!

    By the way, the off day can be agreed upon by both parties; not necessarily on a Sunday.

  17. I noticed there are many comments regarding the compulsory one off-day per week for maids (instead of one per month currently). Assuming the Employer is willing to let the maid off 1 day every week, but the maid chooses to only take one off-day per month. This could happen if the maid is mature and thrifty and realises that gonig out means spending more money – she has to buy her own lunch and dinner and spend on transport and other incidentals. How does the Employer ensures that he/she is not being accused of breaking the law in this instance? Do we have to inform MOM about this? I don’t think the Employer should be asked to pay the maid additional wages in this case since he/she is prepared to let the maid have her one day off per week.

  18. #19 Barbara Lim,

    Precisely. Most local employers are worried that if their maids have the once-a-week off day, the maids might get into trouble, for e.g. having sexual relationships that resulted in pregnancy. The employers will lose their 5k and this is not fair. Since the government wants to make it mandatory for maids to have off days, they shouldn’t ask the employers to put up a bond. Isn’t that ridiculous? Surely employers cannot be trailing after their maids on their off days just to have peace of mind that their maids are not doing any hanky-pankying?

    Many maids have relatives who are also working in Singapore but not all are having picnics/outings with said relatives on their off days. There are deviant ones but how to tell huh?

    I still feel that treating maids like a family members works better. Let them meet their friends occasionally and get to know their friends. Take maids out for family outings/travels and give them breaks in between tiring household chores. I am repeating myself…hehehehe

    Cheers
    Ros

  19. MAIDS

    My thoughts, thinking aloud are:

    1) Intrinsically, the employement of maids is not a necesity. Without maids life will go on. Like without cars, one still can travell from place to place — of course with a car it is much convenient and comfortable to travel.
    2)Countries like in Canada, it is very difficult to employ a maid. The employer is required by law to send the maid to evening classes to upgrade herself in order that she may not have to work as a maid for life.
    3)Hence the statutory one day off a week for maids is fair. As regards the maid may do many things undesirable, the employer can overcome such concerns by specifying in the contract of service that there should be no moonlighting, selling of sexual srvices and the like. Any breach will result in termination of employment.

  20. Kenneth Tan (6) and Wendy Koh (11) on the subject of CPF and CPF Life draw down after age 65. With $55,000 balance in the CPF ordinary account, how much can one draw out per month? I think not more S$ 400? It will be quite miserable to live on $400 per month in Singapore.

    To my thinking, it is better to let out your 3-room HDB for $1,200 per month ( = MR 2,800). You rent a modest house or flat in Malaysia for MR 700, and survive on MR 1,300. Therefore you save MR 800 per month ( MR 9,600 per year)

  21. Hi Barbara

    Great sharing and a good question in terms of the dh who does not want to have a day off weekly for whatever reasons.

    Over here, dh can’t say no to weekly off days – not that they would (from experience), however, they may choose to stay in and employers can’t make them work just because they are at home.

    Think there is a minimum number of hours of rest on their off day so employers can’t tell them to come back/get back to work in a couple of hours and resume their household chores.

  22. Hi Ros #20

    I went ‘WHA??!!’ when I read about the Bond thing when a dh becomes pregnant and thanks to Oi Cheng’s (Hi) sharing, we are better informed.

    About the ‘hanky-panky’, dh are humans, too, and have needs. Employers can only keep everything crossed that their dh have the sense to have protection not just for prevention of pregnancy but also for diseases.

    Hopefully, they are not using Terence’s used condoms. Good grief.

  23. Hi Wai Jin #22

    Agree with your thinking aloud thoughts and applauding Canada for wanting dh to upgrade themselves.

    One of my previous dh went there and subsequently became a nurse. Yes!

  24. I believe that employers were not keen for dh to take days off because they were afraid of losing the 5k bond.
    No one can be responsible for another behavior so it was very unreasonable to impose such ruling and am so glad they have changed.
    Most dh knows how to think – all they need is to meet friends, share news of their hometown, about their families, and ha! ha! also about their employers – just like us talking about them!!!
    As long as they do their job well, having that day off makes them happy. When they are happy, we are happy. It’s a win-win situation.

  25. Hi Geraldine,

    Used to be that we lag behind HK in terms of salary, but you will be surprised that we have caught up a year ago. With minimum salary of S$450, add $265 for the levy, the cost is now S$715.

    Think I wont go further to debate on this – haha Terence has dangled all the carrots for us to chew on, methinks we move on to whet our appetite!

    Have a good day and hope to see you,

  26. Ya, Susan

    This thread is about us growing old among another 600,000 to one million people. I shudder to think that we’ll be fighting for seats on trains and buses; maybe they’ll have half the seats reserved for seniors by then.

    Maybe it is time when we should seriously look into how we can spend our senior years in a retirement community or in an overseas retirement away from all these crowds.

    So, what can we do to address this situation? I don’t believe we should wait or depend solely on the government to come up with solutions which may not apply to us.

  27. Hi Kenneth,

    When Singapore reaches 600,000 people, over 65, where will we be? In 10 years time, I wonder what it will be like in Singapore. Do I still get a space in the trains or buses? Maybe that’s what the new buses will do for us. But, whatever the extras, it will be cramped; and I dont like to stay at home. I still want to travel, and spend about 3 months outside Singapore each time.

    The last few days, I was in Miri and kuching. Today, I am in Kota Kinabalu. I think KK is a nice place, still unexplored, has all the necessities, good food, reasonable pricing, a good airport, near to Singapore. Why not?

    Really, today’s kids use their parents to look after their children. If we dont have to, I guess SilverHairs can travel out, enjoy the space while there is opportunity. Personally, I think there is some sense in what the government is trying to do. We put so much into assets; so downgrade should be worth exploring. For many of us, I think we resist strongly this idea. We should hear from those who have done so.

    Kenneth, everyone of us should realise that as we grow older, we cannot be contented to look at the four walls. Well, we can at least stare at the computer and chat with fellow SilverHairs. We should develop this further.

    For those who are still thinking of sharing your thoughts, please do. It takes only a few minutes a day.

    Terence Seah

  28. Hi Susan

    You have a nice day, too!

    Ya, we have chewed enough carrots; time to move on.

    Hope to meet you one of these days.

  29. Hi Terence,

    My husband and me are pretty contented to live in our 5 room HDB flat for as long as we live. It’s in an older estate and I simply love my kitchen! It is more than double the sixe of new flats and condominiums – kitchen size I mean.

    We were discussing the options of downgrading or moving into a studio unit at a condo. Finally we decided to stay put as it’ll fetch a good rental price in the event either of us reach the hobbling stage. When that happens we’ll either be living with any one of our children or stay in an old folks’ home.

    We’ll be dangling our 5 roomed flat as a carrot. Whoever takes care of us well during our old age, gets a bigger slice of the sales proceed of our flat when we eventually stop breathing. Hehehehe

    Cheers
    Ros

  30. Hi Ros,

    #2 I can imagine you will be the leader of the Old Folks’
    home there from the little i ‘read’ of you..

    #3 It is a very good idea..BUT if the kids are TOO BUSY
    or NOT in Sg cos’ of their career , then HOW ?

    My ONLY challenge about getting old..would i be able to face DEATH alone..and toying the idea of having a life funeral to celebrate the final count-down with my family & friends
    ..and treat them to ‘duck confit’? or ‘hakka chicken wine’
    or ‘tim sum’? or ‘ chay kuai tiaw’ ?? Still working out the
    Menu for the final FAREWELL PARTY..haha
    But no wake, no funeral for me !! had already discussed with
    my pastor though he did not quite agree..

    Who else is toying the idea of LIVE FUNERAL ?
    I

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