Immediately after 1997, when Asia was faced with the financial crisis, many people over 45 years were concerned with jobs.
But, nowadays, it seems that there is lesser concern for jobs for SilverHairs over 45. Maybe we don’t have many job offers in recent months, but from response to the Blue Helmet project, and job topics, the response is cool. In my discussions with some SHC members, we are now wondering if we should make jobs as one of our focus.
On the other hand, there appears to be more interests in small business and online trading.
Can you share your thoughts, and what you think, so that we can all get a good feel of what is happening? Every comment is a personal viewpoint. There is no bad view point. So, let’s respect each others opinion.
I look forward to hear from as many members as possible.
Terence Seah
This 1 1/2 yr is amazing. the economy power so strongly that
1 those who bought properties in the 90s can at least bail out comfortably
2 those who purchased shares in the 90s can sell out with profits
3 best of all- I know people who are left in the shelves found good jobs.They are not young
4 Of course we have thousands of INSTANT millionaires.
5 we have experienced many many economic cycles. I think this is the best upturn.Many are recg good increments and bonuses. Plently of jobs for jobhoppers
6 on the extreme end 30-35 % will not see daylight. This is most unfortunate and sad .I do not know what would happen if the downturn comes.
7 law will be pass mandating job security beyond 62. this law will be tested once we face severe downturn. of course we hope this situation will not arise.
lets enjoy ourselves. always remember we can live to 100 but our legs and health may not carry and support us.
MORE GOOD YEARS
I’ll break my comments into 2 portions : the bitter potion is for Terence who is obviously hungry for sombre stuff, and potion 69 for Chow Weng.
I cant see any statistics to reliably show that the post-1997 depressors over 45 were more concerned with jobs than the presnt lot, who to my mind, are even more concerned with an influx of foreign talents who see S$1 as a buffalo wheel than their say Rp1 and so they have gratefully accepted the money with bent knees.
If the concern doesnt appear obvious, it’s because, to my mind, folks are resigned to what is immutable.
Unions are in a tripartite arrangement which ensures a healthy dialogue among players of the economy all the time, thus averting any need for anyone to take to the streets.
Individuals cant march further down orchard road farther than the length of 1 shoelace without risking arrest unless they drape in clown gowns to entertain visitors for more tourist dollars. So protest marches to show concern is out.
Responses to our very own Blue Helmet project cannot be a good gauge cos for one, not many are aware of its existence and for another, even if aware they may be too shy to share their predicaments……..or ask for a job (and will there be a job in the first place ?)
But pls dont give it up. The need is still there. When those in need can see what Blue Helmet will do and can really do – and the deed really gives the benefits – the project will take off. Not this year, maybe not next year and perhaps 2009 is still too soon but when there’s a will, there will be a way.
Ultimately, the crux is, can this Will be sustained?
It’s understandable why, seemingly, there’re more interests in small business and online trading bcos in these games, you’re in control (or at least you believe you’re in control), and get to see the money more quickly.
(But with the financial mart currently in a tailspin, wonder how many are not licking their wounds, yours truly too not sparted).
1 those who bought properties in the 90s can at least bail out comfortably
2 those who purchased shares in the 90s can sell out with profits
3 best of all- I know people who are left in the shelves found good jobs.They are not young
4 Of course we have thousands of INSTANT millionaires.
5 we have experienced many many economic cycles. I think this is the best upturn.Many are recg good increments and bonuses. Plently of jobs for jobhoppers
6 on the extreme end 30-35 % will not see daylight. This is most unfortunate and sad .I do not know what would happen if the downturn comes.
7 law will be pass mandating job security beyond 62. this law will be tested once we face severe downturn. of course we hope this situation will not arise.
lets enjoy ourselves. always remember we can live to 100 but our legs and health may not carry and support us.
MORE GOOD YEARS
(Oops, pressed the wrong button and my msg scooted off like a runaway train – Terence, pls remove and replace that with this, thanks).
I’ll break my comments into 2 portions : the bitter potion is for Terence who is obviously hungry for sombre stuff, and potion 69 for Chow Weng.
I cant see any statistics to reliably show that the post-1997 depressors over 45 were more concerned with jobs than the presnt lot, who to my mind, are even more concerned with an influx of foreign talents who see S$1 as a buffalo wheel than their say Rp1 and so they have gratefully accepted the money with bent knees.
If the concern doesnt appear obvious, it’s because, to my mind, folks are resigned to what is immutable.
Unions are in a tripartite arrangement which ensures a healthy dialogue among players of the economy all the time, thus averting any need for anyone to take to the streets.
Individuals cant march further down orchard road farther than the length of 1 shoelace without risking arrest unless they drape in clown gowns to entertain visitors for more tourist dollars. So protest marches to show concern is out.
Responses to our very own Blue Helmet project cannot be a good gauge cos for one, not many are aware of its existence and for another, even if aware they may be too shy to share their predicaments……..or ask for a job (and will there be a job in the first place ?)
But pls dont give it up. The need is still there. When those in need can see what Blue Helmet will do and can really do – and the deed really gives the benefits – the project will take off. Not this year, maybe not next year and perhaps 2009 is still too soon but when there’s a will, there will be a way.
Ultimately, the crux is, can this Will be sustained? Time will tell.
It’s understandable why, seemingly, there’re more interests in small business and online trading bcos in these games, you’re in control (or at least you believe you’re in control), and get to see the money more quickly.
(But with the financial mart currently in a tailspin, wonder how many are not licking their wounds, yours truly too not sparted).
Now, potion 69.
Those who bought properties and/or shares in the 90s only get to bail out if they cd tigjhten their belts in the early 2000s to sit out the depression. Many died. Bankruptcies hit record highs day after day during this period.
Seriously, i aint sure that “this is the best upturn”. Fuel is 10 times hugher than in the 80s. Inflation may run faster than Achilles & his relay team of carl Lewis, Johnson & Gunalan to catch so any increment may be off-set by larger incremental inflation.
“Plenty of jobs for jobhoppers”? Well, if mandai is turned into another horticultural tourist attraction, even grasshoppers will hv less grass to hop on.
And the downturn may be as soon as the completion of the IRs, if the US economy mired in the sub-prime fiasco cdnt pick itself out quickly.
It’ll come a time when the Teochew music kikikukiki becomes very popular. And that’s when SHC’s objectives, promises and resolve will be severely tested.
tim
For those who are still holding their assets have to moderate their expectations.
For those who cash out, more good years.
The next opportunity could be the IR. But I dont bet on it.
Lets enjoy ourselves now.
Hi Chow Weng
Long time no C. We do enjoy but wat abt urself? Dun get 2 witness ur presence at our functions. Pls come n join us.
Btw, e PC project is still ongoing. Let me noe ur tots. Tks.
busy lately will participate regularly next year
In 2006 whenever I/we post a comment we can be sure of no response for weeks. I am glad the website has come ALIVE.
It is good that SHC has grown with so many active members.Lets stay together and age together and enjoy together.
More GOOD YEARS TO ALL
Chow Weng,
Glad to hear from you. Anytime. You make the perfect SHC idol as you have the most white hair.
Coming from you, I am pleasantly pleased to read your positive outlook for SilverHairs in Singapore. I am not able to feel the mood in Singapore because I am not always here.
But talking with a number of people, I feel many SilverHairs have either good jobs at hand, or are contented to enjoy the new found leisure.
Although SilverHairsClub is not tasked to assist in providing jobs, we were hoping to make Blue Helmet can take this role. But, like what Tim said, many may not raise their hands, and we never know.
Terence Seah
It is impossible to gauge the financial mood of the whole nation. I spent almost 30 yrs in the financial industry. The people I meet and know are obviously above average. That is today.Going back in time as TIM said, the 1997- 2003 was horrendous. many of my friends were retrenched. Quite a number invested in condos. As I was and am self employ, it was quite frightening then. Before the crisis and recession I promise my children an oversea education.Icould not fullfill my promise. I am glad we all survived.Today the mood changed happily. Yes I agree with TIM, the mood will change again . there are dark cloud in the horizon. We will all survive and continue to enjoy SHC activity.
We have come so far and I am confident that there is nothing we have not seen or experience.
Scholars cannot agree or solve our problems BECAUSE no body can see the future. Their guess is as good as US.
Lets us enjoy everyday.
See you soon.
Thank you Chow Weng for standing with me and together we hoist the flag of courage & valour.
Peter T, Tan K Swan, City Securities, Ong Securities…….they all went down under the weight of the Pan Elec crisis, and more beckon as more become swindlers and even more blinded by greed. The Last Fool theory remains as relevant yesterday as tomorrow.
Scholars? Many have learnt to say yes which like exorcism is not part of a subject in education but does help one to blaze the trail to power & fortune.
Yes, like Chow Weng has said, we are ready, come what may………….
Hi, all:
I’m new to SHC, and still finding my way around. This is a good thread, and I thought I should add my two Singapore cents …. :o)
I retired on medical grounds slightly before my time, about 18 months ago. Before that, I was in middle-management in a large public-listed company. I am therefore in a significantly lower financial league compared to many of you. I am still able to get by fairly comfortably, though keeping tabs on spending habits has naturally become more acute.
The first few months of retirement were spent in convalescence. The next months of relative freedom were fun: I could do the things I always wanted to do, see the places I wanted to see, and take on some free-lance work from the comfort of home.
From the day I retired, though, I missed the laughter and witty cut-and-thrust exchanges with my former colleagues and the general hustle and bustle of working life. I still feel that way today, though I have plenty to do and have a very happy family life.
On reflection, I feel that working life is more than just making money to meet our body and soul together. Maybe I was luckier than some, but while I was still working, interacting with my then colleagues and business associates allowed me to keep my mind sharp, fed much of my emotional and social needs, and gave me a healthy sense of self-actualization. These are things money can’t buy.
But I digress: Should SHC make jobs one of our focuses? I say ‘yes’.
As some of you have already mentioned, we do not know what the future holds. There are likely to be SHCians who may need jobs for both current and unanticipated/unforeseen financial reasons. And there may be those who feel the need to work to keep their minds active and healthy, and feed their emotional/social needs through interaction with others in an office environment.
Having jobs while we are still able to work is something like having a bit of insurance against unexpected financial demands and minds that may quickly deteriorate from lack of use. Scary ……
Cheers,
Ron Koh
Hi, I accept that feedback on this forum may not be representative of the job situation for SilverHairs in Singapore. Although I also see a good 2007, with many SilverHairs having jobs, I do agree it is good we poise ourselves to do something meaningful during our later years.
As I am a strong supporter of work, as long as one can work, we shall continue to keep the jobs issue, at the back of our minds.
We have Patrick Yeo, whom I know has been working as a Taxi Tourist guide. He is enjoying what he is doing. Very encouraging. Last night, I met Roland Tong and he is taking up a short tourism course, in preparation for the IR.
I dont remember the numbers, but KT Wong tells me there are thousands of jobs in the IR sector. Again, very encouraging.
Terence Seah
Yes, RonK, it’s scary if we face the facts, that inflation will hit the official figure of 5% and actually crosses it if we want to be real abt it.
Whatever retirees deem is sufficient today will not be so in future as we’re all predicted to live many more good years after 85.
Holding a job will supplement the source of income retirees have, and they’re usually from never risk-free investments, insurance pay-outs and some pocket money from their kids, assuming they hv kids & the kids hv the means & remain filial.
If there will be thousands of jobs in the IR sector, I can tell you, there’ll be tens of thousands more in incidental jobs. Take the reverse bet if someone offers you to bet on Geylang closing shop. It’s not too long a distance for pretty gals to walk the streets Btwn geylang & the IR.
Likewise, the freeing up of community halls for mahjong to help leep the elderly’s minds healthy augurs well for a nation where the youth with more creative minds when gambling becomes more widespread & legalised.
With so many earning easy money, spending too becomes blithe, carefree, careless………
So, retirees, do you still think you hv enough for retirement?
Hi Terence.I am not sure if you have mistaken me for Roland Tong. Anyway you and I did talk a bit about jobs and retirement last Saturday night at the Buffet/Talentime function.I had also told you that I am one of those who will be retiring this year – after working close to 35 years in the semiconductor industry.
So you asked me what would I do after this ? My reply was I would do something to keep myself and my mind slightly busy. No more the 10 hour to 11 hour workday in my current full-time job but maybe just need about 5 hours part-time work each day – for this next phase of life. I would be happy with that -it provides some income and at the same time allows me the free time to do whatever I had wanted to do but never had the time because of the long working hours of the full time job. Your next question was what kind of part-time work.I said tourism work, on a free-lance basis because this is a growing sector (tourist arrivals expected to hit close to 10 million visitors this year,will continue to grow and hit another peak once the IRs are ready in 2009/2010. There is no age limit in this field as long as you are fit, proficient in the one language you are selecting (English in my case),have a passion for the job (I do have a passion for this type of job in my younger days) and a friendly attitude towards people. Went for an interview to find out if I meet the criteria and have the aptitude for this challenging free-lance job,was found okay, enrolled in the six month course to be trained as a Tour Guide and here I am, having to study again to prepare for the STB exams (theory and practical) next year.
I am enjoying myself and getting quite excited
in anticipation of what is to come. Another
motivating factor is WDA (Workforce Development Agency – a govt agency) funding of 90% (for people above 40 years old) of of the Course / Training fee if you pass the STB exams.
I think 2007 is a good year for new job seekers, I mean those starting working for the first time.
My youngest child (daughter 22 yrs) got a job
in banking a few months ago after completing her studies/exams in mid-year and was offered a job even before her final year results were out. There are still many job openings this year for our young people to choose from, they have the luxury this year, unlike the past years when the job market was tight. But this is not so for the older folks, perhaps yes maybe in the Tourism sector which is poised to be the key driver of Singapore’s economic growth, barring any major international unforeseen incidents. Expect to see many job openings for the older folks in all aspects of the Tourism business (hotels,retails
sight-seeing tours,international business meetings/conventions,land transportation, etc
in the coming months leading to the Formula 1
night time races to the opening of the IRs.
This issue of older people (or retiring people) to continue working (or not) is a personal choice or decision.Depending on one’s situation/
circumstances, I guess each one of us have to make our own choice on this.There is nothing wrong with either choices. This is just my personal opinion.
Cheers and Be Happy …….. Philip
Hi Philip,
Like you, I foresee Tourism as an avenue to keep ourselves busy and alert and meeting meeting people from all walks of life when you’re in that line.
Could you pls share more on the STB and how to get oneself registered into the course under the WDA scheme? I’ve actually attended a Tour Operator course which was 100% subsidized by WDA and the course fees was $3999 but you can only do outbound tours after attending the course. Now that you mentioned abt STB for local tours, I’ll be keen to know more – pls kindly provide more info and contact nos. Alternatively, you can also email me at: lisa.ong@tmesystems.com.sg
Thanks Philip. Regards, Lisa
Philip Ong & Roland Tong
Are as different as pingpong & kingkong
One sang a song, the other danced a furlong
Anyone who got them wrong are like
Closing his eyes to play mahjong.
Shortly b4 it became a certainty that casino gaming wd receive the go-ahead, a lawyer beat the law to start a school to teach card games. Fair that he charged a not inexpensive fee.
There will be more courses in the pipeline and if they dont cost a lot (better if WDA subsidised), no harm to learn something and add another employment possibility after retirement.
But do face the reality and dont get too disappointed if, after one becomes qualified & equipped, offers are few & far btwn.
In the service industry – tourism in particular -it’s not a sin if buyers go for young sweeties. For the same price, even you & I wd like to hv the dish offered by a young pretty face. Or for her to show us around even if it ends up a dizzying round & round.
But of cos there’s still work in the kitchen or, if you remember, the strong & friendly Mr Singh of the Standard Chartered Bank advertisement.
Over the last 2 weeks, many letters were written to the zaobao forum, mourning the demise of filial piety, and that many old & feeble are left by their children to fend for themselves.
The young will respect us and look after us………..1, 2…..3, ready? Let’s start dreaming………
Hi,Lisa. For the benefit of others who have asked me for more info on this subject, here is the website of TMIS – Tourism Management Institute of Singapore which is the official training arm of the National Association of Travel Agents Singapore (NATAS)
http://www.tmis-edu.com
As you can see from the website, the training
courses in English and Mandarin have closed for
the year 2007. The last intake at TMIS for 2007 was in October (last month). I am in this group. Currently there are two classes in English (part-time in the evenings) and one Mandarin full time class. Will have to wait for news of the 2008 intake. Usually there are three intakes per year. I will find out when they are having the first intake for 2008 and let you know. The course fee for the Tourist Guide Program is $2654 for the English course. STB exams fee not included (about $300). As for the 90% Funding by WDA,this is subject to certain conditions (must be Singaporean or Singapore PR, attain at least 75% attendance, passed all assessments and obtain 3 Statements of Attainment, passed the STB exam and obtain the Tourist Guide Licence and acheieve 12 guide assignments within 6 months of obtaining the licence. Courses are conducted at TMIS-Singapore Shopping Centre, 190 Clemenceau Avenue but exams are conducted at Singapore Tourism Board (STB). Please note that these courses are for in-bound tours, not outbound tours and therefore the Tourist Guide Licence is meant for the attractions in Singapore only. This is general information. I will email you with more details later.
Regards ……….. Philip
Thanks Philip for the website and a very good brief of the course. Looks like we’ve missed the boat for 2007 so , pls do keep us posted when you have more info for 2008.
Regards, Lisa
Hi Philip,
I have got your name mixed up with Roland. Your comment clarifies it. Glad you can shed light on this area of discussion.
Tim, were you referring to me as the person playing mahjong with eyes closed? I had to read your comment twice. Benefit of doubt, I shall gladly accept your hint as a sign of old age. Am glad to have your participation on this serious subject.
As someone who is well read on current affairs, what other opportunities do you have for SilverHairs, not sweet young guys and gals.
Terence Seah
Hi Chow Weng,
I like to catch this opportunity, as we have not met each other for a few moons. The last I remembered was during the Hans meeting.
I believe you are a reminser. As someone in this field, would you think that online trading activities in equities, funds, forex and gold be a good activity for retirees. I have noticed this activity as a potential source of income, for people not seeking full time jobs. Looking at the regular Straits Times and Today newspapers, there are many advertisements enticing readers to take up courses in online trading.
Risk noted, accepted and aside, would you think that online trading is an area worth considering for SilverHairs.
Terence Seah
Hi,Tim. Reference to your comment #15, in any
free-lance work, as with Tour Guiding, the income is not fixed, depending on the assigments. This is okay for older people or retirees. After all it is just to past the time,
work the brain, keep oneself busy and at the same time be able to earn some income. But with
the continuous growth in the Tourism industry, this “some income” may be quite substantial. The visitor arrivals are overwhelming the number of Tour Guides we currently have. If one has the stamina for it, bringing around three groups a day (morning,afternoon and evening of 4 hour duration each) may be a common scenerio. But of course, one can turn down any assignment, if it is too taxing and pass it on to someone else.
Just to update you, nowadays majority of Tour Guides are in their forties or older. No fixed income, no CPF. So this may not be suitable for the younger generation, they need a more stable job with fixed income. So they stay away. So
don’t expect to see your young sweeties bringing tourists around. It is a very,very rare sight.
Even if there is one, she needs to be very
competent,knowledgeable,very fluent. No short skirts, no plunging necklines. Dress code requirement by STB is very stringent. 1 complaint, 2 and 3 and and you are out, licence taken back by STB. The “young sweeties” are better off doing other things than trying to act as an ambassador of Singapore.
Still, cheers ……….. Philip
Terence, no you werent the one playing mahjong but then, how can there be a game of mahjong without you sounding the gong & singing a song to get it started?
Philip, I am somewhat bemused by yr optimism but I cant find any evidence to support it.
I work in the service industry 0 transportation. The many guides we see our counterparts arranged are getting younger & prettier by the day. So too are the junket gals and even taxi touts.
I aint happy that this is the case cos I can only get older everyday.
I do believe that many silverhairs & retirees are attending STB courses, wishing in their hopes that they’ll hv a role to play with the expansion of tourism. I cant do less than to wish them well.
Back to you Terence.
Online trading sounds better than online gambling as in online soccer bets (thankfully I am not into that yet).
After the organiser has taken his cut, it’s really a zero sum game i.e. 1 winner, many losers. The good ones with that bit more intuition and hunch wins more. But never all the time.
So what else can we silverhairs do?
I dunno. I cant be encouraging folks into buying what sporepool sells………just too risky (how could england lose to croatia on home ground??).
Sometimes, I just like to think that there’s a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. But when I decide to go & look for it, the sun kills it.
Alamak! Tim, you’re contravening SHC rules again!!
No gambling, please!
I, for one, find it hard to obey the SHC hard and fast rules!!
I need sex: you have to tick the box in the form which requires you to answer “male” or “female”.
As for religion: I’m a religious liberal.
I gamble with my life everyday just crossing the street. Or, now, taking the budget airlines.
And then the gahmen starts shifting the goalposts… when exactly do we retire?? Do you know that you’ve to be 65 before you get the lower consession maid levy? So, partial CPF withdrawal at 55, you can see cinema at discount, wait till 60 to get senior bus concession, can only draw minimum sum at 62, NTUC 2% discount on Tuesday (that’s the only day we eat!) Now, slap on 7% GST and pay higher property tax because house prices have risen. What did the property tax department do when house prices collapsed circa 1996?
Pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?? It’s only a mirage!
Absolutely, Kenneth, certain words hv been proscribed so I had to spell it as godddd and, when am in a bitter mood, it becomes bitter gourd. Which also explains my many & frequent typos.
The world is getting smaller. So the rule has to be, if you dont play yr game well & reap a bounty b4 yr hair turn silver, game’s up and you step aside for the young.
Regrettably, they didnt let us know this rule earlier.
Hahaha, we cant die b4 85 lah, nvm that the one who smiled from ear to ear in many obituary pages over several days didnt cross 75. Probably menial chores are healthy for the body & heart, and chairmen, minstrels will die earlier, deprived of this servitude.
Thankfullu, we still hv SHC where no one ages…….
Silverhairs are a rather stoic resilient lot. Most will suffer silently. And if one suffers long enough, one may start to believe that it is in one’s destiny to suffer.
Many on fixed income has seen their lifestyle downgraded. First, they exchange their house for a smaller HDB. Next, they shed their maids, cars, clubs and eat at home more often. If they shed anymore, they find that they will soon have to shed their spouse. Having shed most of everything of value, they start to believe that life is still affordable since nothing left behind costs much to keep.
So its all in the mind. Work-Life balance means that if you are prepared to lighten on your lifestyle, you can put off having to work. Shed your desires and you can still be happy with near nothing to your name.
For the vast majority who is less Zen, work is necessary to support the basic trappings of life. The more you get, the more you want and the more you need to work to keep in the grind.
Hi Kong Thean
You raised a rather depressing scenario for wealthy silver-hairs(comment#24). For most silver-haired heart-landers, retirement life is not so grim with their apartments fully paid up and no club to give up.
If “work is necessary to support the basic trappings of life”, it follows that if one does away with the trappings, then there’s no real necessity to work and the trade off is: low-level stress.
My two cents’ worth. Enjoy the weekend
JassmineT
Hi All,
To be or not to be ….. that’s the question Shakespeares poses in Hamlet. This depends, really, to our own value systems which are different and varied. It is also linked to the elusive search for life’s happiness. The solutions to such problems cannot be standardised: One man’s meat is another man’s poison ….To each his own. It is not a question of right or wrong but what works for us coupled with wisdom – The acid test is: Does whatever we do bring us happiness, contentment , satisfaction ….ad infinitum? If so, then who is to question us except ourselves?
This is strictly my own personal view. I hope it helps to contribute positively to this discourse.
With warm regards,
Robert Quek
Bob @ #26
We may not be that alone in our determination. Our existence is an interconnected matrix. We are entangled with each other both in the physical and metaphysical plane.
Some things are more entangled than others. When someone else loses $30 billion you will see just how tied up you are to others folly. Benign or otherwise.
Chaos theory’s famous example is how the flipping of the wings of a butterfly can cause a tornado halfway around the other side of the world.
Tich Nhat Hanh says
“We are here to awaken fron the illusion of our separateness.”
Others contend if we cannot please ourselves we might as well continue to sleep. “Stay in bed and let others connect up to you if they bother”.
I beg to differ. Our humanity is bound up with each other for we can only be human together. Every explicit duality is an implicit unity. We are not alone. In anything, we think or do.
Hi Kong Thean,
I totally agree with every word you have said and I share the same sentiments. But how do we connect this idea of interconnected matrix in the physical and metaphysical plane to the issue that Terence has posed regarding whether Silverhairs in Singapore need jobs?
Regards,
Robert
Hi everybody,
It is always a pleasure to see old threads coming alive, after some time. When I start this thread, the intention was to hear feedback and determine if SHC should pursue job opportunities.
SHC members have the following profile:
1. Definitely over 45, long job experience and knowledgeable. Many hold or have held professional, administrative or executive positions.
2. Many are still working, and most don’t need a job.
3. Those who have retired from fulltime job, are comfortable with their savings, and don’t seem to need a job. To my knowledge, some are giving private tuition, taking up part-time consultancy, or performing social or charity work.
4. We virtually have no request to look into job openings or job assistance.
5. Somehow, and at times, job postings do appear; and response are almost nil, as these job positions are deemed not suitable, especially with our membership profile.
6. For those opting out of full time employment, for income generation, SilverHairs retirees appear to favour small business setups, online selling, shares trading, property agents and private tuition.
What do you think?
Terence Seah
Hi … 50s is the new 40s! More than a cliche, people in developed countries have a longer life-span. Jobs/activities keep us on our toes. So yes, as long as health permits, we should keep on working, even if on a part-time basis. The income generated wouldnt hurt either!
Hi LenaW, and fellow SHCians,
We all know from activities that many SHCians, probably at last 70%, do have a fulltime job. This explains why many can come after 6pm for the SHC monthly events. Retired/semi-retired SHCians do join the late afternoon sessions.
Perhaps, I am wrong, but I do observe that many SHCians, especially the retired and semi-retired, do not need full time jobs. If I may use the word, I would say many are well to to do. I think this group has managed well their retirement program.
But, obviously there is another group – the retired group, who would like to have a job, do something, and manage with some incoming income. Yes, some will do a part-time job for the fun of it; but a meaningful income would be nice. I always remember what KT Wong says. If you retire, and you touch your life savings, even a dollar, that life savings will deplete very fast.
You are right. 50s is the new 40s.
Terence Seah
Terrence,
a very interesting thread. possibly a good time to revive this as with inflation hitting all time high & the economy crashing (both here & overseas) we’re headed for bleak times as bad or worse than 1997. Here’s my 2cents on this.
I would say that our generation is fairly lucky. much of the growth & wealth was created during our time and I guess that’s why terrence thinks that many are well to do. I wouldnt be surprised as most of us have prob paid off our housing & as the govt has intimed, we can & should convert that asset to fund our retirement. I personally sold our my house last year & am sitting pretty as they say. I think my children will have a harder time & I pity them. with the current housing prices (even with the downturn), they will need to be employed 20-30 years / double income to fund their homes. I shudder to think of that but I digress.
As someone who tried to retire @45, I can identify with a comment made on Catherine Ho’s profile that mentioned thinking about early retirement. The first few weeks are great as you do what you’ve never had time for & friends oblige you with their companionship. However, after a while, they note that they have to work so they cant accompany you. That’s why I decided to go back to work.
I think that for many of us, the human interaction that we got daily from our work environment is what we miss most. Gals probably have less problems adapting as they are usually better @ keeping in touch with friends.
So yeah, personally, I would like to get back to work. However, I would like to do something that I enjoy for a change and sometimes that’s a problem – we may not have the experience for what we want to do or we may be over-qualified.
On Terrence’s question on online trading: it’s ok. you need capital & you need discipline to cut positions & not be too greedy. When my objective was 1-2% return per month, I did ok. When I got greedy & tried for 5-8%, I got burnt. I was also fortunate that I did my learning during a time when the markets were benign. I wouldnt recommend anyone to learn/trade in the current environment. It’s however pretty boring as most movements happen in 15-30 min bursts with hardly anything in-between. Also unless you are in a broking environment, you’ll still miss the usual interactions of an office environment -> it’s pretty solitary work.
On why there isnt so much use of Blue Helmet, it is prob as others have commented: shy & embarrassed. But it may also be because some like me dont really understand how it works.
Hi Andrew Thio and Ron Wie,
I remember reading an article where they charted the success rates of managed funds. The best long term fund was a Princeton retirement fund run for some 60/70 years and they averaged a return of 17% pa only. And this was the best in the whole world. And this was not adjusted for inflation. Nevertheless my point in bringing this up is anything above in unrealistic and doomed to failure. Ron W’s target of 2-3% per MONTH and even Andrew T’s target of 1-2%, also per month is unrealistic and doomed to fail over the long term.
If you like others keep focussing on this target, be assured you will lose your capital.
The reason being you will discard the safer, less riskier asset classes to achieve your unrealistic target. Even Temasek when they reported their LT average of 17%, took the public by surprise(I believe it was reported as 17% pa, but which was subsequently denied as being too optimistic). Note this was reported early last year, before the losses on ShinCorp, AusPower, purchase of an shopping mall and kid’s learning centre in A’lia, and of course the devastating losses from their purchases in the US investment banks.
Without fail ‘investors’ will buy into shares they think ‘is going to go up’. Some even ‘know’ they are going up in 2 to 5 days time!!! To this day I don’t understand how or why they come to that enlightened and often expensive conclusion.
Money is like dynamic like water, and they will find the return provided for an equivalent amount of risk. If for example, currencies as an asset instrument can provide returns above say 10% per ANNUM, you can be sure all the hedge funds, private equity, wealth managers,fund managers, traders, both private and proprietary, Central Bank traders, HNW investors, corporate traders, retail traders, day traders, opportunists, money lenders, pseudo traders etc will be heading for that instrument. Soon the pool is diluted and the game plan changes from exploiting the special situation of that asset class to one of playing against each other. So who do you think will survive? The retail ‘mom and pop’ trader or the professional, who is there watching the market 24/7, fed by 4 screens, 3 phones and 20 brokers from NY to London?
I sincerely hope to turn off retail investors, in or out of SHC, away from this form of short term trading and I cannot say enough on this topic. You are better off driving your car to the F1 and racing with the Formula 1 drivers.
Look rather at the share, commodity, proprietary interest you are buying, at the price offered, and the downside risks, compared with a more acceptable return of say 10% pa before you commit your money.
Good luck to All.
Hi Charles,
Thanks for your good advice I know it is just a retirement dream that others seems to be able to live on their investmnets.
However I was referring more to Forex and the many strategies some of which KT Wong has also promoted that getting 2 to 3 % a month in Forex is not that impossible through autotrading.
Forex fluctuations are much higher thus a fluctuation of even 2 to 3% mulitiplied by the leverage of 100 can mean alot.
The strategy of course is ride the tide and minimise when you are in the wrong position. I believe (maybe still in a dream) that with a group with sound fundamentals, working closely on news, coupled with a good program with autotrading features could bring a good yield of 2 to 3% a month. But the team has to really work and learn the market movements and be on top of news around the world.
So this dream team could ideally be working anywhere just bring their laptops and strategies.
It is a dream, but what is life with no dreams,just have to ensure there is a fails safe stratgey through hedging etc, that it dont turn to a nightmare. Just sharing ideas, ideals and dreams, while having to work, work and earn till … Cheers.
Hi Ron W,
Firstly Living on (all or part) your retirement funds need not be a dream. I have friend who was featured in our STimes, who said his family’s insurance policy is his ability. And he is not working, at least he doesn’t draw a salary. The key is to ‘work’ your money.
Imagine if you buy a house and it is unoccupied/vacant. For such a big ticket item drawing nil returns means the owner will eventually go bust. Similarly if you own a boat (not a sampan), unless you have money to throw, the costs of maintaining that boat will eventually sink you too. Or if you have a spouse that gambles, that looks like a sunk cause too.
Secondly, about forex exposure. Most forex trades are geared up to 20 times. Ie you put in a deposit of 5% and that allows you to buy/sell 20 times the other currency. If the currency goes up by 5%, you make 5% only. Your return is only 5%, not 100% because retuns are calculated as (total profit)/(total money at risk). To calculate otherwise is simply incorrect. So the risks in forex is actually greater than you think. My remarks on forex apply similarly to commodities and I shall not repeat them. You can say though , that the volatility in commodities is greatr than in forex, hence the risks is augmented both by exposure and volatility.
If you buy a house for 1 mill and you put up a deposit of 10%, ie $100,000. If the house appreciates by 10%, your gain or return is also 10%, not 100% as your money at risk is 1 mill. Most people treat property as a good investment because they calculate their return based on the deposit they put up, not the money at risk. Some people who have made the wrong bets on property since 1998 have not yet recovered, even though the market has risen above the 1998 prices.
Can your property drop to zero value? No, but in the 1998 crisis in Indonesia, many properties dropped to 20% of their previous value. Such was the fear then
It is not a ‘nice’ way to illustrate the different asset classes given the sensitiviy of those with bad experiences, but in any case study we should choose those with the highest level of correlation with the market and market participants to obtain the sense of objectiviy and realism in our analysis. So stick to actual phenomena, not academic simulation.
Personally I wouldn’t dream of doing well in a forex trading environment. But don’t take my word for gospel truth, try it out. open an a/c, visit the broker’s trading rooms at night when London or NY is trading. look at the on-line, real time charts, read the ticker tape news off the monitor and ask yourself, sincerely where the currency is headed. Try it out. I have. See if you can make any discernible pattern for the nexrt 15-20 minutes. See if you can ‘predict’ the chart or the pattern for the next 15 or 20 mins. Autotrading or computer trading is simply getting the computer to recognise a pattern or trend and hope that the pattern holds or the trend stays relevant. All trend following simulation is belated. You need the trend to establish itself before you can say a trend exists. Then you make your trade. But you must recognise you are late and you make only if the trend persists. It is easy therfore to get ‘whipsawed’, ie you buy, but too late the trend reverses and you sell to cut your position and the trend comes back.
In short, there is no short cut. Many peop;e have experimented with ‘blackboxes’, some have worked, others failed. For those that worked, they cannot work successfully over time as the market is dynamic and re-rates itself. So even the successful black boxes have a limited shelf life, after which you have to re-engineer your inputs, then test it, then go live,then ‘hope’ that the market parameters and assumptions don’t change. Believe me making cakes for sale is an easier way to make money. Essentially you should ask, even if it works now, what assurance is there it will work again, later, consistently? If not everytime you enter into a trade, you would be asking yourself these questions and believe me you won’t have time to do it, with the eyes looking at the screen, reading the charts, reading the news, listening to the broker, thinking if you have missed any other item, how much you want to bet, what’s your cut-loss position, your risk reward ratio, your portfolio weighting etc etc.
I think I went pass my 15 line limit now.
Cheers
Hi Charles,
Sorry we did not have time to chat on Sat night, busy keeping the ladies to air their voices lah to keep Terence company camping.
Ok seems you have the right experience and like a good sensible discussion if not for anything just for the fun.
Shall we meet sometime next week for dinner somewhere with Andrew Thio somewhere around Bishan.
I love blading too, so blading in the evening if you want to join Andrew and me at the Bishan park? Also will be at Scorebot on the 31st, if you are there. Cheers
Hi Charles,
I agree with you.
Let me re-phrase my earlier comment. I had posted about on-line trading because Terrence had mentioned about it as a possiblility. Trading is pretty different from investment. I agree that I was lucky because the trading environment 3-4 years ago when I did it was very different.
My investment objective is much lower than what I had mentioned for trading – 8%pa vs the 20%pa mentioned previously. In the current environment, I personally think cash is king & have much of my money in deposits actually.
I still have some investments that I didnt get out of in time & decided to ride the market plus some alternatives like commodities, etc. Commodities have as expected taken a beating recently as the market realised that demand will drop with the slowing economies but I still think that supply shortages will allow commodities to remain a good bet in the medium term.
Relooking my post, I realised that you were right. It seemed that I hadnt highlighted trading risks enough. I apologise that I was misleading. I am not trading at the moment & dont recommend anyone to start trading in the current environment. Paper trading as Charles mentioned to understand how the market works & to train yourself is ok. (It’s what I did in the beginning too). Before plunging into it, also take time to learn the tools: charting, TA, etc (If you have to pay for the courses, they are cheaper than ‘tuition’ fees you will pay when you trade). Also take time to learn what affects the markets that you want to trade in. Equities are affected by different things from forex, for example. Keep up with the news flows that will influence your trades. If it all sounds like hard work, you are right so if you’re not willing to do the work, DONT TRADE. It’s very dangerous. If despite this warning, you still decide to trade make sure that you are willing & can afford to lose your capital. The fail rate of those trading probably runs much higher than 3 out of 4. (based on my experience with the ex-G+ who took early retirement or got retrenched)
On a personal note, I am not trading at the moment. I’m sitting tight on my cash unless an investment risk/reward looks good. It’s going to be a bumpy ride for another 6-12 months. We definitely have not seen the worst yet. Yes, I know deposit rates are the pits & below inflation but better to get the 1+% than lose 10-20%. The best and saftest investment at the moment is to transfer money into your Special Account. Only disadvantage is: you cant get it out for a while. But if it’s for your retirement funding, why does it matter? The minimum sum & annuity plans that the Govt has put in place are not a bad thing. Again they have been moddle-coddling us by helping us do retirement planning but for most people what they are doing is good and will benefit them.
Ronald/Charles
Yeah, I’ll be at Scorbot on the 31st also. there’s a bunch of people but hopefully we’ll meet then or earlier if we blade.
cheers
Hi Ron W and Andrew T,
Next week is not good time for me for dinner.
What’s happening in Scorebot on Aug 31st? What time? How come no posting? Is this one of those private functions?
Can’t rollerblade but willing to try if you can teach. Now trying out cycling for some exercise but my butt still hurts from last week.
IMHO, for those on FDs a good alternative would be the OCBC pref shares. Return is 5+%, credit risk is similar to a bk deposit, not forgetting they are pref shares, liquidity is acceptable, more so for a retail profile. And if you need money in a hurry, you can either sell or even pledge the shares.
I am not recommending investors start to pledge their assets for their investment, rather that they can discern the slight difference in risks and the higher returns they can obtain with the pref shares. Any way if you need the money in a hurry, you can always sell it. Just remember to factor in the 2 way transaction costs whenever you plan to include this in your portfolio.
It’s good to hear you have cash still and I beleive there will be many opportunities coming.
Good luck to all of us. We need it.
Hey Charles Chua & Andrew Thio,
Normally I will skip reading any thread relating to fanancial investment, but both of your exchanges of views on this topic are so interesting. I enjoyed reading it…you are right lor, how to survive on $600 a month ???
:) Ah Nee
Ah Nee
Glad that you enjoyed the post.
Charles
If you are a new member like me, you wouldnt be aware because it’s not on the calendar. But yes, it’s an official open event. The post can be found in the category investments.
Follow this link: http://silverhairsclub.com/2008/08/2021
I got to know about it because one of the interested for Tarot was suggesting to tie it with the event.
You’re supposed to register your interest in attending. It’s supposed to be full but some members have encouraged me to turn up anyway if I’m interested as some wont be able to make it last minute. I managed to get registered to one of the sessions so I’ll be going. If I cant attend the rest, I’ll interact for a while & leave if I get too bored.
You sound like you could add value to the session so I’d encourage to try & sign up.
cheers
Andrew,
This event is recorded in the SHC calendar la.. pls look carefully hor.. Dolly
ok, my mistake. Sorry.
Hi Tian Soo / Wong KT ,
1) As I had NOT been to the SHC website for quite some time, I was CURIOUS to realise there are actually 2 Tian Soo’s with different personalities. NOT “split personalities” ( Ha! Ha! – just joking )
One is a boss of an ECOfarm who enjoys golf but seldoms put his comments in SHC except when I organised the tour to Saigon and he responded and he was also looking for a helper to be his/her farm guide.
However, nowadays, I noticed there is another Tian Soo who frequently writes his comments in SHC and also sounds
V. Vocal.
Lim Tian Soo ???? Are you the same person ???????????????
Pls. clarify. I am PUZZLED!
2) Good to know Wong KT that you r still alive and kicking. U SUDDENLY reappear. Apa macham ?
Hibernating for such a long time?
KT, FORGET abt Stocks/Equties/Bonds/KT’s ATMs for the this gloomy period in the meantime.
Why NOT INVEST in growing Tong kat Ali for long term investments . Will explain more in my new post
( TONGKAT ALI is getting ” LIMPY.” )
Today’s Newpp Article.27/01/09.