Some current issues are worth discussing on this forum. Below is on example. It is important we maintain the taboos of the club, and discuss ideas and suggestions, and hopefully this feedback will get to some ears. Personal criticisms especially directed at positions or persons woukd not be accepted. Keep out political discussions, and stick to ideas and suggestions or counter-suggestions.
FROM July 1, the CPF Minimum Sum (MS) will be $131,000, up from $123,000 previously, the Central Provident Fund announced in a statement on Tuesday.
The new MS will apply to CPF members who turn 55 from July 1 2011 to Jun 30 2012, those who can set aside the MS fully in cash can apply to commence monthly payouts of $1,170 when they reach their draw down age.
The Medisave Minimum Sum (MMS) will also be raised to $36,000, up from $34,500, whereby members will be able to withdraw their Medisave savings in excess of the MMS at or after age 55.
The maximum balance a member may have in his Medisave Account, also known as the Medisave Contribution Ceiling (MCC), is fixed at $5,000 above the MMS and this would be increased to $41,000, up from $39,500.
Any Medisave contribution in excess of the prevailing MCC will be transferred to the member’s Special Account if he is below age 55 or to his Retirement Account if he is above age 55 and has a MS shortfall.
The CPF Board said the increase in CPF minimum sum, MMS and MCC, which includes an adjustment for inflation, is to ensure that Singaporeans set aside sufficient savings for their retirement and be able to meet their healthcare expenses.
(Copied from ChannelNewsAsia”.
Terence Seah
If smthg hurts immediately, its long tern benefit, if any, is missed. Kids bawl when you feed them medicine, and so sweeteners are invariably added to assuage their anxiety.
Likewise, there is a need to mollify a policy that appears to be starkly painful.
Recently, there were much rumblings that, if one’s $ is less than the speficied Minimum Sum for the day, one may only withdraw $5,000 at age 55. Another has worked that out to be slightly more than $1.40 daily to spend for the next 10 years till 65 when a stipend is paid out from his MS.
Be real. How many can survive on $1.40 a day, with inflation rising unabated (many farms in China are experiencing severe drought, and China is not alone to suffer the scourge of the Good Earth’s wrath).
We sing Stand Up for Spore. Sadly, many silverhairs will probably be carried, hungry and sick, into Si-Pai-Por. And do we not know that many pay a smaller price to die than to be sick?
It’s never easy to pay $8.40 for a by-pass……..easier to bypass the hospital, hide oneself at home (if one has a home)under a blanket and wait for the intervention of Miracle.
This is life but will someone make life a wee bit better for the poor and ageing a tad less to fear?
Woohah! S$131,000 Minimum Sum… How many Singaporeans after paying for their mortgage can have that amount by retirement?
That’s why they have CPF Life which moderates the amount to a more manageable sum… $50,000? And then you have only S$200 plus annuity when you reach 62/63.
I certainly would like to know how a certain minister pays only $8.00 for a bypass when you have to pay that amount just for a visit to a polyclinic.
And, sorry, the senior citizen discount only applies if you are aged 65 years now.
That certain minister is covered by both Medishield and a private insurance plan. This is strange right? I really wonder why someone who is paid millions in salary per year needs to supplement his Medishield with a private plan. He can afford to pay without any insurance plan unlike you and me.
These private plans can cost many thousand of dollars a year depending on your age and health condition. So it is not correct to say he pay only $8 without taking into consideration the many thousand dollars he has already paid.
Hi Steven, Kenneth,
Please stick to the topic. Topic is the raised minimum sum.
You may start another topic/post, if you like.
Terence Seah
The payout may be more but it is actually your money. So whats the point of increasing the minimum sum . You are not getting anything more.
Does any knows what is the projected Minimum Sum for the next 15 years after 2011?
I mean:
From 01Jul2011 – $131,000
From 01Jul2012 – ??
From 01Jul2013 – ??
” ” ” ”
” ” ” ”
” ” ” ”
From 01Jul2027 – ?????? => most probably > $1million
Scary right?
Between your future age of 55 years old + 1day to 65 years old, if you got no job (i.e. No other income), you also cannot touch your minimum sum of $1million sitting inside your CPF account.
Hence, the need for the GCT ponzi asset enhancement scheme mooted in 2001? To boost your HDB flat to sky-high value, so that you can mortage it back to ???.
And then you draw on that miserable sum of a few hundred dollars a month to eat grass with porridge gravy (aka water). But my query is how many will live to 65, if they have no other income after reaching 55???
So, forever, your OWN money will be locked in your CPF account and if you do have a/some next of kin …. they becomes the true beneficiaries of this so called retirement funds. Ironic … isn’t it? If you have no next of kin at all, then it goes to “u know where?”
Btw, say on the average, current minimum amount in each person’s CPF account (whether gainfully employed or not) is $50,000. Multiply that by say 1.5million accounts = $75,000,000,000 based on current value …… WOW!! Where are all these dough going or sitting right now?
Oh,oh, so sorry, Terence
I was getting carried away… but the CPF Medisave Minimum Sum issues are closely linked to the Minimum Sum Scheme.
Back to the CPF MSS:
A quick check on the CPF website shows that the scheme was implemented in 2003 with a sum of $80,000 set. This will increase annually to $120,000 in 2013. But there is an inflation element involved: which means that the 2011 sum of $112,000 with the inflation adjustment is now $131,000.
So, if you estimate the annual inflation to be at least 2% (which I think is the figure used by CPF now), the Minimum Sum for 2013 would be around $149,000 (but don’t hold me to this figure).
For those who are just reaching 57 this Dec 2011, the age for withdrawal will be 65 years old. So you may plan to keep on working till then.
There is no ruling on what the MSS will be after 2013; the Minimum Sum is capped at $120,000.
If you do not have the Minimum Sum at 55 years, 50% will be automatically blocked off from your property value. The balance CPF amount will be your Minimum Sum value.
You can opt to have a monthly amount paid from this balance till the whole balance is used up when you reach 62-65 years (depending on your retirement age).
Or you can use your Minimum Sum to buy an insurance annuity which will pay you a monthly amount but for life.
Hi Terence,
Being a Singaporean, I would like to share my opinion about the topic raised in CPF minimum fund.
I strongly agreed what #5 Charles & #6 Ivan, CPF fund are meant for retirement age, with the current situation, how many of the Singapore citizens able to withdraw from the CPF fund as set aside fund keep increasing yearly.
I pity those youngsters as nowadays HDB pricing keep in high value, if they need to buy house when there are marriage, don’t think have sufficient saving in their CPF when they reach their retirement age
About the healthcare, I came across one incidence which happened in CGH, a man in his early 60’s was rejected by the en
rollment staff for his review medical check up due to outstanding payments to the hospital, he was very angry & mentioned his CPF does not have the minimum amount, therefore unable to withdraw even he had reached his retirement age or deduct from his cpf in full settlement.
As a citizen of Singaporean, I am wonder are we secure in our life event we had the sufficient saving when we are reaching our retirement age as o
Sorry that press too fast in my earlier post.
I just want to say are we really secure in our retirement age as the rules keep changing in our daily life.
The CPF was created to ensure we have savings in our retirement. I remember it was 50% at one time and that was useful to pay for our flat and later private properties..
However, it has also become a double edged sword when Citizens upon reaching 55 was allowed to withdraw their savings. Word has it that Indonesian and China gals were waiting outside CPF cos when the men go there to withdraw their savings, these “foxes” were waiting for them & it was made worse cos CPF gave them an umbrella as a parting gift and these men became even easy prey…
Of course, umbrellas are no more given, and now you receive a cheque upon 55 yrs old on your birthday cos it was posted few days in advance..and with the bulk of it in properties.. there is isn’t much to withdraw .
Many men squandered it…and their families were left disadvantaged… We men!!! and those ladies!!!!
That’s the premise of this policy that started quite low but of late has become so high… I believe this will be reviewed too.
Now if you are buying your 2nd property, each spouse must also leave the min. sum before they can use their CPF for their 2nd & subsequent purchase.
I guess if I’m a policy maker it is having to balance the needs of the family and that of the bread-and-butter needs, and protecting these proceeds from being squandered away.
During 2 recessions ago, many citizens are asset rich but cash poor esp with a lot of retrenchments..
So having annuities is a good way to build your monthly payout at a slightly higher interest rate.. but this came a bit much too late.. When I was in my 30s I couldn’t buy annuities and it was a lump sum premium which makes it unattractive and not practical. My only alternative was to buy a M’sian annuities..which I reckon will do me good and with hope of MR being higher than S$.. Luckily I didn;t buy cos it miserably is so much lower cos of mismanagement of the economy for a country so rich in resources..and land and capital..
As an individual, of course I would want to manage my own funds.. so it is a double edged sword .. what if the individual loses it all at the casinos…after withdrawing it all..
My 2 cents worth
regards
Pat
The CPF MSS increase does not affect me but I would like to make comments based on my observations.
Suppose a CPF member upon reaching the age of 55, he has just enough savings to pay for the MS and he will get his monthly payment at retirement age (62-65), if he has taken an annuity plan from an insurance company. During the 10 years, he must remain healthy and not become unemployed, else he will be cash strapped though he has $131000 locked in the MSS. In a situation like this, he may have to borrow money from whatever source he can get. Does this scheme make any sense to him?
Thanks guys on ideas and suggestions. In some ways, I was initially not comfortable with having such topics on the SilverHairsClub forum. But, I have always felt the need that we, SilverHairs, need a venue or even a few venues to speak where our needs are lacking.
There are other forums, and some do serve its purpose of airing one views. Obviously, I have strong viewpoints of my own, and they do target political parties. But, just criticism and snipes would not help bring issues to the right departments. It is still the basic logic, reasoning and analysis that hopefully will get our ideas and contributions through.
Personally, I am not anti-politics. Political discussions was made a taboo as part of SilverHairsClub membership, and everybody has to adhere to it. I too should adhere to these rules.
There are other forums, and any individual can choose to use those forums.
In short, I am glad we adopt the basis to discuss openly ideas, comments and feedback. Most tend to be more feedback, but solutions and suggestions would make this forum more useful and meaningful.
I am therefore incline to support more such forum discussions, especially if they are for the benefit of SilverHairs.
Terence Seah
Hi Terence,
The current interest rate seems good for those who are not investment savvy :-) ~ 4 + 1 % for the retirement account if we’re 55 and above?
Warmest regards,
Gabriella
Hi Terence,
Further to my comments at #12….
Medical fees are indeed expensive (exorbitant!) in Singapore. Some netizens commented recently that it is ‘cheaper to die’ than to be hospitalised!
I would like to add my two cents worth.. the purchase of a medical insurance would really help. NTUC Income offers a v good medical insurance viz: Incomeshield Plus + Rider, which covers for hospitalisation in any private hospital, First Class ward. Of course, no one wanna be hospitalised, but hopefully, such a coverage will at least take away the pain/headache/heartache of high medical costs here. The main policy can be paid from Medisave ($600+ per year) but the Rider portion will have to be paid in cash ($400+ per year for someone in their fifties).
Cheerssssss & sunshine…………..
Gabriella
Terence, you have always put up controversial but interesting topics for discussion and I urge you to continue with this healthy habit.
It’s futile to totally separate a social issue – esp one which hits us hard – from its political slant. It’s a tread into the nebulous. Whoever wants to cleanly cut it as 2 distinct cones is bound to fail.
Any issue which we feel strongly for or against is implemented by the Govt consists essentially folks from the ruling Party. This Party may be lapping up all the sunshine that credits bring for doing good or rappings for gaffes and nappings.
And forum writers tend to say so in such discussions, honestky as far as they believe and guided by their emotions.
So that is simply a reason why, for as long as you can stay on, shd stay on.
It’s not easy to find another who has a sharp eye for issues which impact us, and at the same time, knows how to moderate the idscussion and bring it back to focus.
Dear Terence #14
I fully agree with Tim’s comments – paras 5 and 6 of his write-up. You should stay as our Red Indian Chief as it will be v difficult to find another… NOBODY, NOBODY BUT YOU!
ChEEriO,
Gabriella
Terence#11:
“In short, I am glad we adopt the basis to discuss openly ideas, comments and feedback. Most tend to be more feedback, but solutions and suggestions would make this forum more useful and meaningful.”
Even if we can provide suggestions (or better solutions) to self-manage our OWN CPF money when we reach 55 (or in this case now, 65), will the garment listen or do you think there is a platform to fight for it here?? I dun see it – so, I keep to critizing or poke fun at it. What can SHCians/SHC changed or make a difference to these policies? NONE!!
Gabriella#12&13,
What is the point of putting more money into your CPF accounts to get the 4+1% IF it get locked away (forever) from your reach to use it as and when you deem fit???
If it get locked away perpeturally – I will DEMAND at least 500% per annum…..from the garment (bcos I know these will become a windfall to my beneficiaries only. It’s like gambling for a sure win – but the winner is not you; it’s your beneficiaries PROVIDED THE GARMENT DUN CHANGE THE RULES AGAIN!!!).
Buying Medical Insurances and having other means of passive incomes are known and had been advocated by tons of financial advisers, talk(-cock) shows/seminars and books etc – In this arena (age-of-time) and educational levels achieved in Singapore, who doesn’t know about all these?
MY QUERY is then: If you dun even have enough money to foot the daily expenses and bills due to high cost of living, no jobs, no (HDB) roof, where got the dough to buy all these policies and “invest” in/for these passive incomes?? These all looks nice and beautiful on PAPER only; now so easy for the common folks to implement lah!
my 8cts worth of critisims…on our CPF MS MMS etc..
My 2 cents worth.
Nobody likes it when their money get locked away, to be given back in drips and drapes some time in the future, when there is a need of money now, for whatever reasons, be it for sickness, unemployment, investment opportunity, etc.
Yet we cannot ignore the other side of the coin. Without MSS, many will spent and will not have enough for old age. If the number is small, they can turn to charities. However, if the number is large, then the government will have no choice but to step in to help them. If the government don’t help, it is likely to be voted out. With an aging population, this is more than likely.
But where do the government gets the extra money to support these financial assistance? A popularist government can draw down our reserve. But this measure cannot last forever. Ultimately, at some point in time, the government will need to raise additional money.
Where can a government raise money? Borrow from other people, like Greece and get the whole country into trouble. From investors by raising tax, which will drive them away and cause unemployment. Tax us and make us so mad that we will vote them out or the young will migrate to another country.
Do I have a solution? No. I am not that clever, just pointing out the obvious before someone bring the country down, make my children jobless or raise my tax.
BTW, I am not affiliated to any political party.
Dear Conrad, really appreciate very much your enlightening comments.
Haha, Gabriella-C, actually Terence can do a lot more.
When he dreses up as a vampire and blows cold air on yr neck (sometimes with saliva if he sees a ravishing handsome). He makes the perfect host of a Halloween Party………the Party he is affiliated to and will contest the next GE.
A little digress to this topic.
The office of the President will soon be up for grabs. Other than 3 names serious enough for voters’ consideration, do expect a few grubs wriggling out. Somehow, embarrassment and be seen as a laughing stock makes them feel good.
Embarrassment?
I just cant help but feel that He who earlier rejected suggestions to contest this high office is now mulling over it. I fear that he will not hv it his way and will again be embarrassed bcos of his rooted connections, and his age. Better chance in 5 years’ time when he is older and hv earned a track record of having performed public services in these 5 years. Seling hot and steaming char kway teow is not.
The President’s duties are largely ceremonial snd perfunctory. Altho he is said to wield some executive powers in regard to the use of the Reserves, the dearth of info fed to him didnt make OTC die a happy man.
So will the next Presidnet be really a People’s President who listens to People’s voices from the heart…….on how CPF Money shd be used to save lives today? Not ask them to sleep away for 10 years from age 55 to 65 so as to avoid the immediate need for the money. And convinced of the problem at hand, he tweets the feedback to the Cabinet.
Best if this President too is a hands-to-mouth man and has an urgent need to call on his Minimum Sum. He will then be able to make a bit more noises and jump a bit higher to make his point.
Hi Tim,
Thank you for making me a clown at the party. I am pretty happy to accept that job.
But, please do not bring political discussions into this forum. Stick to SilverHairs issues. Fairy Godmother is on holiday in London. She will be back soon, no magic wand, but with a rattan stick from your garden.
Terence Seah
No, Terence, how can you ever get it so worng?
The Presidential election is no smaller a social issue than the change/tweaking of CPF Rules. It is no more no less a piece of current affairs, as CPF affecting us is.
The office of the President is no political office. He can be like you a member of the Halloween Party, or a member of the clandestined 369.
You and I too can offer ourselves for election so long as we are eligible, principally if we had managed a $100m company for 3 years. Sadly, managing a set-up like SHC since 2005, despite it keeps good company, wont qualify its CEO.
Fairy Godmother? She is never a matter to me. I am told that she is at 10 Downing St learning how to make rattan baskets. Chances are she will teach interested SHCians this skill at the Bra and that free flow of coffee will be on the house, on you.
Hi Ivan #17
Ref your comments to me.
I REALLY DON’T KNOW WHAT TO SAY! (stomping of feet with finger in my mouth)
hahaha.
Cheersssssssss
Gabriella
Hi Conrad #18
Rightly you have pointed out quite a number of obvious and have enlightened quite a number of SHCians except the last sentence in paragraph 5 which is quite puzzling.
You stated that by raising taxes, the government will be voted out. On the contrary, there are many examples where the consumers are heavily taxed, yet the obvious does not happen. For example, a car owner is heavily taxed from day 1 when he purchases a car. He pays high import duties, COE( over $40000 for a medium-sized model), road tax, ERP charges, insurance, petrol tax, parking charges. Yet many Singaporeans perceive that the measures are necessary to control the car numbers on the road and the government has done the right thing. In fact they got a resounding victory and was given a strong mandate to run the country for the next five years.
another perspective…
1. I might be wrong but i think S’pore is the only country in the world that makes it compulsory for its citizens to build a safety net (aka ms ) to see them through their ‘dotage’. This is life-saving for the proverbial cricket that sings and dances through the summer months.
2. The proverbial ant that works through the summer might feel aggrieved that its take-home CPF dough is reduced if there’s a need to top up its ms – well, get less, spend less, buy less, eat less, lose weight…..and have good reasons to live a simple lifestyle.
3. And if the proverbial ant feels that it might die before it eventually gets to enjoy its ms, well, life is unpredictable – it might just live to be a centenarian!
*2 cts’ worth of neutralizing a bitter pill.
Hi Robert #24,
There must be many factors that determine who got voted in or out. I am sure tax is one of those.
Beyond a certain shifting threshold and / or reasons, voters will become unhappy with high taxation. How the threshold shifts depend on whether the government is able to convince the majority of voters about the need for unpopular taxes.
Many may accept vehicle-related taxes since they are using the vehicle. How many will accept high taxes used to support social services?
This same argument applies to MSS. MSS is an unpopular policy. Yet the masses have not reacted negatively when voting. Hence MSS is an unpopular policy that are accepted by majority of voters.
By what measure did the government used to gauge at what age we can withdraw our CPF monies? It’s not like all of us have the privilege of specialist doctors attending to our heaslth 24/7 so that we can live healthily till 80 and above. From 55 to 62 to 65 to 70 to 80 in the future? Might as well use our CPF as ‘assets’ to be willed to a filial son/daughter.
In principle, the objective of the Minimum Sum Scheme, to me, is good as it tries to ensure that CPF members who get to live beyond 65 will have some regular pay-out to live on.
Of late, i am back to mixing with a lot of Bengs, somesengs and some singhs.
From them, I know first hand that many of them dont have more than the MInimum Sum at age 55, and will only be able to take out $5,000 to use for the next 10 years. These are the folks who suffer the anxiety and pain of having savings but not the benefit of its use.
To liberalise the current CPF policy will mean that many with dire needs for the $, will go some distance to solve their immediate financial problems. But it will also mean that the State will bear the brunt to look after them when their $ is exhausted which can be very soon after 55.
A Catch 22 situation. Clearly, the simple (simplistic?) approach is to hold their money back for a decade or longer, and urge them to fend for themselves in the meantime. If one death comes early, there will be one fewer headache.
Will the new slate of officials be able to find a solution so good that even a grouchy goat wont complain? Then, I say, he – and his team of civil xervants who make the panacea proposal – richly deserve their champion salaries.
CPF Scheme is our country’s current way of “retirement fund” for its own seniors’ citizens.
Depending on one’s lifestyle and priorities in Life, etc. the feedback can be for or against the scheme.
It is real in life that not everyone knows how to manage their own savings or assets, especially for those seniors, after retirement. There are cases of some who lost or used up their entire CPF amount after a short period of retirement.
With life expectancy and medical advances improving, there are many more years we have to look after ourselves or someone has to look after us after retirement. CPF Scheme is just, but one of the means to meet this objective.
It is interesting to read that there are two sides to the coin, re the CPF minimum sum.
It now does seem that this minimum sum is insufficient to live until 80. So, the CPF life alternative comes into the picture.
Has anybody survived till 70 after taking the money to China, building a house and enjoying the thought-off retirement?
After looking around, I guess some seniors do make an additional income from online trading?
I also envy those whose income comes from rental of a spare house or condo.
Unfortunately, I haven’t come across anyone making additional retirement income for MBS or RWS.
Tim has stopped soccer bets or horse bets, so I guess that route doesn’t help.
Working part-time? Maybe this is a good source, if we don’t lose a job after 55.
Lucky for some, can look after grand children.
Guys and gals, do you have another alternative source? Especially if we think the CPF min sum is insufficient.
Terence Seah
In soccer bets, you take on 25 men and anyone can do you in.
In horse bets, you hv the track condition to contend with not to mention the moods of the horses, trainers and jockeys.
Most of all, you hv the bookies to fear.
A good friend occasionally offers me sure-win bets. i wont want to look elsewhere now. There’s still 5,000 to collect from him. And there’s a 1,000 reward to find and hand him over to me.
Most gamers lose in the casinos.
I have personally witnessed a guy winning $56,000 – just 2 bets of $800 each time on the #8 consecutively. I was told his best winning streak was over 10 minutes which netted him more than $80,000.
He returned the day after and then lasted for several days more, only to lose every bet he put in. He is unseen in that casino now.
The casino is the haunt of many retirees.
Uncles get to chance winnings and love young pretty women offer them. Also occasional flirtings from the casionos’ own marketing gals.
Aunties too get the feel of winning and the croupiers/dealers’ sweet talks of hiw charming they still are. Charming my foot, let truth be told.
I will be checking into 1 of their hotels tomorrow with a young ok-looking gal. I hv promised her fun and will deliver. All paid-for on my behalf.
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I am checking for loopholes on how to get our money out! Will share with you guys, when I can find one!
At the current rate, we’ll never be able to see our hard earned CPF savings. It will have to be included in our will…! God save our souls.
Hi Terence #30
Your last paragragh has intrigued me and has spurred me to ponder about the alternatives when our MSS may not meet our financial needs.
Many hopefuls have tried their lucks at RWS and MBS, TOTO, 4-D, football games and horse racing bets. These are just various forms of gamblings. Has anyone ever tried to calculate the chances to win the first prize in TOTO? If he did, he would probably never want to try the game again.
However, there is still some hope. It is very real that instant wealth is just a pipe dream. It has been said that the trader who made big bucks in one trade in the stock market was lucky or was doing insider trading and not because he was clever in stock picking.
Then how do traders go about containing the vagaries of the market. The answer and its lengthy explanations can be found in many books on investments.
Disclaimer:
My above view is purely for dicussion only and is not intended as guidelines for trading by anyone. Please consult the proper trading representative from the broker company for advice.