The sounding is out to all members to at least put up an event or activities for fellow members to participate. The thing to consider is that there should be no advertisement of the company organising the trip. Some members do keep a lookout for such cheap day tour or trip overseas and want other members to join in so that there is ample opportunity to interact and have fellowship together.
A trip may be planned strictly for members whereas in other where non-member are involved, a co-ordinator is required. I know some members are frustrated when their attempt to post an activity are rejected after several try.
On the one hand much encouragement are put forward for members to step forward and be involve in organizing activities, yet we feel that some of their efforts are curbed. Can there be some flexibility? Without doubt some company names will be mentioned in any tours but if we look at the greater picture the advantages and benefits to our members far outweighed any other consideration.
Dan
Hi Dan, I can understand why you are banging your head against the wall. I share your disappointment and disillusionment (I am also banging my head – on the pillow).
Indeed, why are tour companies NOT to be mentioned when somebody is organising a tour? Until a valid reason is offered, I presume it is because we do not want to give the company “free advertisement”. Something ought to change. It is not only about flexibility. It is common sense.
Hi Dan,
Perhaps, you should site the example. I am not sure which Post you are referring to.
We try to be as flexible as possible when it comes to members leading tours for members. In fact, we rarely reject Posts or comments.
However, if the member wishes to publish a tour, but does not participate in the tour, that Post is classified as an advertisement. This applies to all Posts, and the reject is always explained to the person.
I believe I have mentioned that we can accept dvertising. Please ask the tour company to write in.
If you can be specific which Post was rejected, I can clarify.
Terence Seah
Hi Terence,
I am refering to a certain member attempt to post a tour to JB. Three times she tried to post and three times it was rejected.
We do not normally get the tour company to write in. One of us who is the organiser will present the itinerary and cost and will garner responses from members.
In this instances I get to understand that no reason was given.
Dan
Thanks Dan,
I wasn’t not aware you were one of the organisers. You should have help to clarify then.
However, I would suggest you refer back to the person who communicated with you. She is new, having joined on Jan 2012. She joined SHC so that she could have members join the tours to Malaysia.
It’s not true her Post has been rejected 3 times. Various emails and sms were exchanged to seek clarification. She knew and I had explained why her Post could not be accepted as explained by her.
She finally withdrew the advertisement, without further discussion. I would ask you check the facts to avoid any embarassment.
I take this opportunity to explain again that EOs or ECs must participate in the tour that they intend to publish. If not, we shall treat this as advertising. To advertise, please write in.
Terence Seah
Hi Dan,
Looking at the comments posted thus far, I must say I support Terence’s view that we should exercise vigilance against people who attempt to use the platform for personal benefits.
Perhaps, in due respect for all parties, such clarification could be settled off line, via email or sms or better, via direct conversation if the issue pertains to specific people. We are all in one club and we should work to make the club better through more interaction and support.
James
Hi Terence
Sometimes a person’s application for membership is also rejected. Recently, I tried to apply for a male friend but his application was rejected. No reason was given. Is it because he does not have an email address?
Wd appreciate your advice.
Tks & cheers,
Gabriella
Dear Dan,
Thank you for your post. Yoke Lai and I have given up trying to explain to Terence via several emails that Yoke Lai does not represent any company. Perhaps we were not convincing enough. She organises local trips and tours for friends, her condo neighbours, church groups and she would like to extend this to SHC members. Not only does she organises these tours herself,she leads them too, with the help of a Malaysian guide and a Singapore Bus Captain. She scouts for interesting eateries and places of visit in Malaysia and Singapore. She also makes sure appropriate travel and medical insurance is done for the travellers at a discounted group rate, including accommodation where necessary.
Her forthcoming trips are a 6D5N trip to Ipoh/KL/with a durian feast on 25th June that is almost filled and a 1D Saturday 14th July trip to JB for durian, shopping and dinner. We have filled up Bus A for the 14th July trip and she is opening Bus B which I will help her to lead.
As members of SHC, we are answering Terence’s call for members to take a lead in organising activities for members. Yoke Lai’s skill is in organising tours on her own and to reiterate, she does not belong or advertise for any tour company.
Speaking on her behalf, we will leave it to Terence to reconsider for the benefit of all SHC members and their families/friends.
Thanks James for sharing.
Winnie has come forward to clear the air with regard to Yoke Lai futile efforts. Some of us members are going for the durian trip by private email and word of mouth and a second bus load is planned for.
It is such a shame that not many of our members knew about this because of some miscommunications.
Dan
BTW, Happy Labour Day and Happy Holiday to all.
Cheers, winnie
Hi Winnie,
From our communications, these trips are organised for groups outside SHC. SilverHairsClub members were invited. If you recall, you ask to withdraw the Post, as I was asking a number of questions. There were no instances of the Posts being rejected as mentioned by Dan. And, reason was given. All new members Posts are always moderated for the first time; unless cleared.
I am always pleased to see members organise tours or activities for other SHC members. As organiser, Yoke Lai should make the effort to reply; but it appears all the replies came from you. Unfortunately, this being a EC event, I usually ask more questions than EO events.
The same position will always be adopted, for all members; no exception.
Terence Seah
Hi All,
I feel some heat here. However, I think, the heat cannot reach the head. Should that happened all that silver coloured strands will turn into black, then the SHC will become the BHC. But by natural ordain, that cannot happened, whatever men/women may try to do.
I have met Terence personally but briefly. My observation is that he governs SHC like a president or prime minister
(ie. listens to and has lieutenants volunteering to do things), and not like kings or emperors who govern by decrees.
I have also met Dan Huang personally and briefly. Cannot outwit him in chess or chest. (can someone help me with my spelling? I was also told the word lieutenant is to be pronounce as “leftenant”). I find the English language, like life itself, does not always follow rules.
I remember SHC rules says:-
No politics, no religion, no MLM, no advertisement, no ….
Almost all organizations have rules/policies to protect themselves and upheld their decorum., so has SHC.
Rules by themselves are restictive per se. But we must have them to avoid anarchy. So if the rules when applied works against the welfare of the organization, then there is a tool called “selective execution”.
For example in a case of a SHC member who wants to be an EO for an Indonesia tour. He/she will post the general tour info here, but will also mention the name of the Tour Agency. The tour may not be exclusively for SHC members. Here the following rationale will arise when viewed against the SHC rules pertinent to advertisement and business.
(1) Does the EO has a pecuniary interest in the tour?
(2) If the EO is new member of SHC, is it likely that
he/she joined just in order to gain this privilege?
(3) He/she just wants to help, but must named the Tour
Agency, in order to generally inform that legal
liability is between Tour Agency and the tour member.
With the above scenario, I think “selective execution” will have to be adopted.
Incidently, somewhere in this forum, I remember seeing suggestions about charging for advertisements, and paying for EO.
May be SHC should charge the Tour Agency a fee for the advert. Out of this SHC pay the EO for his stressful contribution. The SHC keeps part of the money by a committee
(which may be the same people as the ones who are nominated to push ideas into Terence’s head, which ideas he had rejected previously).
Wai Jin
Hi Terence,
My apology if I got the fact wrong.
Whatever the reasons, can we just relegate it to an EC event for the greater benefits of fellow members.
Dan
Hi winnie #7 and Dan #8
I have just heard of this durian trip on 14 July 12 as per above comments. No one has informed me via any private mail or word of mouth. Wd like to join in.. pl give me more details on my email:
gcpopcorn@yahoo.com.sg
Thank you,
Gabriella Chua
Hi Yoke Lai and Winnie
As a member who is interested in travelling, I am always looking out for organize tours by members. But I need to know if the member is organizing it for social reason or is he/her making profit out of this.
So far all trips that I attended are organized by members just for fun, so we all go at our own risk and take responsibility for our own welfare. We buy insurances for accidents and travel losses but we do not cover for mistakes by the organizer. We just trust them because they are friends.
If the organizer is doing it for profit, I would rather go to a registered tour operator so that in case of problems or non delivery I have a company or person with resource for me to sue and recover any losses.
Perhaps you could just state for us if you are doing it for social reason only and that you do not profit from it. I am sure it is also relevant for Terence to decide if your posts are advertisements or not.
Hi Gabriella #6,
Good you raise this question to clear the air. Not too sure who you are referring to, but i note your “I tried to apply for a male friend but his application was rejected”.
I believe the reason is “The person must apply himself/herself”. No exception. We have a simple registration system.
Thinking aloud, I would also be most pleased if we can have someone, maybe yourself, to check and verify new members. Very often, we have more than 100 people a week applying to be members. Please say yes, and give it a try.
Terence Seah
Hi guys!
May I say something: Terence is level-headed and his decisions are based on the posting and further communication with the post initiator as he said in #4.
I can understand the frustration (I like the emoticons of head-banging) but there must be more behind the whole issue.
I have participated in many activities, posted on many issues like investing and retirement living, led some dicussion and tours to Thailand: all with no problems.
Perhaps we should take another look, and see if there can be another approach. Please follow the rules and there should be no issues.
Hi Winnie
I’m interested in short one or two day trips to Malaysia, Batam, Bintan or nearby places. Pl keep me in the loop if not on the shc blog, then via my email address.
One-day trip is easy for me but would require a room-mate if it is an overnight trip. Sometimes, it may be difficult to obtain a room-mate.
Tks & regards,
Gabriella
Hi Terence #14
Tks for your explanation. I’ll tell the person to try again and do it himself. Maybe, he has to go and borrow a pc… haha! The reason is he does not have a pc as he is in his 70s, albeit he looks young and fit and loves dancing. He dances very well. Sure, he will be an asset to SHC and will boost the male: female ratio. He wants to attend the Arabian Nite but had to withdraw as his application was rejected. He is a good and nice guy of integrity, good sense of humour and a wealth of knowledge/wisdom. It is sad that his application was rejected all because he may not be so IT savvy or does not have a personal computer.
I can help new members by being an ambassador and recommend them to shc activities. Can help to check and verify new members, but how do I go about doing this? Really would like to do something more in SHC since I’ve enjoyed the ‘fruits’ during these 2-3 years. I’ve joined in so many activities, got to know more people and picked up new skills like dancing, singing etc and gained lots of confidence during this time. No longer worried about being alone at this age when all the nestlings are leaving the nest! hee2
It is indeed a great revelation .. that you are having more than 100 applications per week. Nvr knew that the SHC is so popular as I usually see the same faces during most of the activities.
Last but not least, thank you for your brainchild of the SHC which has helped so many oldies like me, enjoy the last lap of our lives in a meaningful and fun way!~!
KUDOS to you:-)
Gabriella Chua
Hi Terence #15
My apologies on #18. I was referring to your comments as per #15, not #14.
Regards,
Gabriella
Gabriella #18
Just bring the person to a computer and help him make the application… problem solved!
And then volunteer to be a member verifier and checker MVC!
Dear All
First of all, a Happy Holiday to everyone!
Being a retiree, I felt that I could put my experience in organising local tours & trips to Malaysia for my ex-colleagues, friends & their families. Hence that brought me to organising activities for the senior citizens in another organisation. They enjoyed the trips & always looked forward to these outings. In Jan 2012, I was asked to join SHC by my good friend Winnie Tan, whom I met at one of the trips I organised. She mentioned that SHC could use someone like me to help organise tours for fellow SHC members. I have heard about SHC earlier on but paid no attention to it. Winnie filled me in with the various activities which SHC organises. I joined with the hope of participating in the activities, have fun, get to know the members & help with contributing my expertise in organising trips. I lead all the tours that I organise & my trips are all social & fun trips. I do not earn any income but I benefitted from making more friends and seeing happy faces at the end of the day. For my local tours, I source for the outlets; for the Malaysian tours, I look out for interesting places & also great food for the participants to try eg. the 6D5N Ipoh, KL Gourmet, Farm & Factory Tour cum Makan Durian Tour.
I attended last Monthly Gathering in March, met Terence & other members. It was a fun evening & I noticed that SHC has a vibrant membership of intelligent people from all walks of life.
Back home, after several unsuccessful tries in posting my own local tour, I felt disillusioned and decided to give up. I was the one who asked for one of my tour posting to be closed ‘due to poor response’. I simply gave up but decided to move on with my other activities.
As I am not an IT expert, but able to move on with the basics, I had asked Winnie to help me with the postings and answering to Terence. My apologies Winnie for getting you involved. As Winnie works in a MNC, she writes better than me & has excellent computer skills.
I hope this explains to all my sincere intentions.
Yoke Lai
Hi Yoke Lai
You certainly expressed yourself and typed on the computer very well.
My assessment of the poor responds from your initial tour posting is simply because people are cautious and do not want to waste their valuable office leaves or time off unless they are reasonably sure that it is going to be fun trip.
Perhaps if you get to meet more members here and more members get know you better. I am sure your tour skills will be appreciated. Meanwhile you should convince Terence of your good intention. Believe me, he is quite a reasonable guy but you need to communicate with him. He is a man of few words.
#21 Yoke Lai,
First, forgive me for giving my 2cents worth of opinion.
It’s great you can organize short trips but could you do it strictly for SHC members only?
Hope to join one of your 1 day kind of trip.
Cheers
Ros
Hi Yoke Lai,
I note that you are a very dynamic person with the passion in organizing tours to Malaysia. I am not sure if you are interested in the “Alternative Lifestyle”, which we are now conducting a survey on. You may want to see the post heading “Alternative Lifestyle”
James
WITH the clarifications from all concerned, I believe the “tour mishap” is cleared.
I don’t know about others, but personally I am always grateful to anybody who attempts to organise an event for others to participate. Particularly overseas outing. Yes, even if it is for a profit for the organiser. As adults (half a century on earth already), we join any function with our eyes wide open (unless medically proven otherwise). We look at the event being organised – the fees, the whatever promised and most importantly the people we are going with. Can’t we do a simple deduction? Do we need others to tell us to take it or leave it? Do we need “protection”? I always support the idea that the EO and (declared) helpers be given a free ride – at the expense of participants who simply attend and enjoy.
Having said that, we now look at the platform. SHC is not obliged to give free advertisement to any company, and in the process, perhaps stifles a good initiative. As with many clubs and orgnisations, it is always a case of rules vs reasons. No easy way out. Trust Terence to exercise passion and prudence. Chew Wai Jin’s post (#11) is a good read.
Dear Yoke Lai (#21)
We met at Hans ParkMall during the March Monthly Gathering (EO Frisna) and found you to be a modest, soft-spoken and humble person. I could sense your passion to ‘tailor-make’ a trip for SHC members and I greatly appreciate your sincerity.
I must salute you for your perseverance despite the setbacks you had during the initial stage of organising a tour for SHC members.
Congratulations for taking your 6D5N tour to Ipoh, KL Gourmet, Farm & Factory Tour cum Makan Durian Tour off the grounds though it is not an EO event.
I would have loved to join you in your Ipoh/KL tour if not for personal commitment and family matters. I’m only ok to join a very short trip eg, 1-day trip or just an overnight trip for the moment.
Winnie #7
Thank you for highlighting 14July day trip to JB. I’m glad that through this thread (although I don’t follow posts all the time) I learnt that you are trying to fill-up Bus no. 2 for this trip. I will try to shuffle my schedule to join you.
Is it an EC event?
Thank you
Hi May,
This durian tour ia not an SHC event yet. Through the disappointment of an earlier trip, Yoke Lai feels dishearten and decided not to post this durian trip. Now that the air is clear, we hope that Yoke Lai and Winnie may consider opening up to our member to fill up the 2nd bus.
Most other local tours or a one day trip to JB may not stir the heart, but mention ‘durian’ you will experience a lot of reaction. I am going in spite of my condition as this is at most a yearly affair.
Dan
Hi Dan,
I like your 2 emoticons. The 1st. one is you are trying to shoot at Terence to …..
The other is you are trying to bang your head against the wall to find a way out of this situation. It is v. humorous indeed. Ha! ha! .
I am v.LUCKY indeed to get this info from other members thro private emails and I had booked well in advanced and going too as I hear from friends that the durians at the farm were of good quality at Tangkak, JB.
Ask yourself , how often do we visit a durian farm ?
The fact that it is organised by a SHC member, I can tell myself , I just pay and all I had to do is relax and enjoy the tour cum makan while the EO has to plan and do all the tedious admin work and also to ensure that the tour operates smoothly in the interest of the members at heart.
Of course advertising for the company or to gain any commission from organised events by any EO is strictly out of the question .
My 8cts. worth.
Hi Dan, Steven,
Most clubs have a comments box. Very often, the boxes in most clubs are empty. I welcome all feedback. If I can answer them, Yes I will. If I cannot, I am sure other members can answer or at least give their feedback.
SilverHairsClub is for members and is run by members, subject to the taboos being considered. As such, for EOs, ie members who organised activities strictly for members, they have my full support.
For members who open the activities from other groups or organisations to SilverHairsClub members, as long as the EC is responsible for the registration, they too have Club’s support.
Members who join SilverHairsClub and start inviting members to their activities especially paid activities, usually will be asked questions before the Post can be published.
I hope the more senior members in the Club see this need, and advise the newer members who contact them. If in doubt, please write in.
This said, I like what Dan has written and I encourage the comments and queries. We should also appreciate those members who help to explain and moderate any heated exchange.
Terence Seah
Hi-Gabrialla #17
watch out for post by Abel. He is planning a trip to Riau islands this month in May.
I agree with Wai Jin#11 amd Kenneth #16
that Terence has his heart in the welfare of SHC
He is like a watchman watching after his flock.
I remembered when I put my name and my wife to join Abel trip to Seremban he immediately ask for my email to verify my membership status. Of course sometimes I felt he is not very flexible and has his own mindset but I think all of us have the same attributes.
Peter Lim
Hi-Dear all
Just to relate some of my observations
I think there are 2 main ways to travel.
The easy way is to go on a conducted tour.
Advantages are you do not have to worry on the details. Just follow the iterinary and leave it to the tour leader.
Disadvantage is
a) you do not have a choice to select time to get up or where and when to have lunch or dinner (if included in trip) and the places to visit etc
b) I also noticed that the shops we visit always have something to give to the tour guide (probably favour…)
c) Such convenience comes at a price. You have to pay more for the trip
So for convenience you can join the tour organised via SHC members.
The second method is the free and easy method. We buy our won fares and travel with SHC members as a group
Advantage
We can plan our own iterinary and do want we want to do, eat and visit where we like to go.
We get to know each other better and hopefully each other’s
company by the end of the trip
I believe we will benefit with a better value for the price we pay.
Disadvantage
You have to do some work such as purchasing the fares buy the travel insurance and do some research on the places you
are going.
Recently Kenneth led (informally) a group of us to visit
Chiang Mai and his many trips to CM benefited us.
My conclusion
I prefer the Free and easy mode which I believed is suitable for SHC as all members are literate and able to communicate.
regds
Peter Lim
Hello Everyone,
I would like to thank Dan Huang for his Post. Contributions and feedbacks were highly professional, calm and informative. Thank you all for taking time to write.
May Woo (#26)
Hi May, it is difficult to do an EO event for SHC, as we would need 38-40 pax minimum for the total fare to be cost effective and to fill the coach to Malaysia. With members’ tight schedule and commitments, this would be difficult to achieve, as shown in Yoke Lai’s earlier posting. Moreover, members would not be able to bring their young families or their friends along. An EC event would make it easier to achieve.
Cheers, winnie
Hi Kenneth Tan #20
Thanks for your advice! hee2
Btw, I don’t think I’ve met you before? Hope to meet you at some SHC functions in the near future.
Cheerssssssssssss
Gabriella
Hi Yoke Lai and Winnie,
I have been given to understand that you organise tours to Malaysia, out of interests and passion for seniors. As your activities are open to SilverHairsClub members, please continue your travel tours as an Event Coordinator.
I apologise for asking many questions to verify validity of the event.
Thank you Oi Cheng too for explaining and vouching for Yoke Lai.
Terence Seah