Hi members,
I am going to raise a topic which has always been one of our concerns; and this is the most common observations among members and Singaporeans alike.
Why is it that there are always more men women than women men at social events? It’s not that the ratio of women to men is 60:40; but it’s more like 80:20. We always thought that many men do not like dancing; and this may be partly right.
When it comes to other social events, we are also having the same observations. Why are the men shying away? Are they too busy? But really, I think we have to understand the reasons. And then, we need to know if we try to do so, we are banging our head against the wall. If we cannot have an equal ratio, then we will continue to face the same problem, even if the membership is increased.
So, should we increase our membership? What do you think?
Terence Seah
If there is anything, I would do from now to June, and that is to find a way to balance our sexes. So, I need your help too.
Terence Seah
Thank you DanielC for pointing out that I have incorrectly written “more men than women” in this Post.
I have made the change. tk again.
Terence Seah
Its ok Terence you are welcome. I wanted to make it discreet by dropping you an email. Don’t want to be seen as “always ready to point others’ mistakes”.
Anyway, back to your topic. Indeed I agree there are always more ladies than guys in social events. Often, when when I join my Resident Committee or CC Senior Citizen club for an outing, 80% are women. The few men probably were there to accompany their wife, voluntarily or otherwise.
One reason could be ladies like to talk (ooops please take it as a compliment). Yes, men like to talk too but they feel comfortable talking within an “all men environment”. No-holds-barred conversations are SHIOK.
Hi DanielC and fellow SHCians,
I am probably a bad example. I travel a lot, most times the people I meet are in business. Most times, they are guys. I do meet female business women and executives, but very often, I am not uncomfortable with them.
But, in a social setting, I can clamp up very quicky in the company of women. Then I stop talking, until the women stop talking. That’s when I start talking.
Perhaps, women have more energy; they do like to come out of the house. At some SilverHairsClub gatherings, I do come to understand that many men prefers to stay at home, read a book, watch TV or just do nothing. So, we don’t see them.
But there is another part of the equation, and that is when they hear that there are more women than men at the gathering, they consciously decide not to attend too. This gives me the perception that men attracts men too.
Sometimes, we think men have their own outings. True. But then they are somewhere.
I tend to believe that as we get more men to participate, we will attract more men. A bit of the chicken and egg story.
Terence Seah
Statistically, women live longer than men.
Also, older women seek companionship while men have wider choices- flirt around with younger ladies (paid services) or find some foreign talent. Women’s mind work more rationally, while men tend to rule from the heart– seeking aesthetics and pleasure first.
Perhaps this is why women will do things to stay pretty and young before they reach exoiry date :-p.
It is therefore not surprising to see that male participation in social events are very low.
Hi James,and fellow members,
I can understand the logic that men do have various avenues. Let’s say a guys loves to flirt, have sex outside the home. Loves to drink and gathering together with men friends, I would say this is still no reason not to attend social events in Singapore. Not to say I am an angel, but despite all my exposure to the outside world, I am very uncomfortable to join a social group, if I know the group has more women than men.
When I am back in Singapore, I tend to call up more men than women to have a chitchat. So, I think the same goes for men in SilverHairsClub.
Perhaps, also our environment has more working men. Although I read from statistics, that more women are joining the workforce, more men are still working.
Nevermind all the above excuses, we should find a way to put our sex balance half half. I think “Men only” gatherings do work.
Personally, I feel the ladies should do something too. Many women tend to gather in groups, and once a group is formed, that’s it.
Hope no one will shoot me. In my perception, many Singaporean women are agressive, cannot accept that men can be less than ideal. Men are not perfect, we have less in our savings as we reach or go past retirement. We may blurb after a good meal or rub our stomach to express our satisfaction. We may be suffering from bad smell, diabetic or has poor manners. Worse, some of us cannot express ourselves, and many women just can’t stand this.
But, are the above reasons good reasons for men to avoid social gatherings? Once we reach 70, 75, …., are we men going to live alone?
Are there other unknown reasons?
Terence Seah
We can ask the men what activities they are interested in and perhaps organise such activities (over and above the current slew of SHC activities) in 2013.
My observation is men (and women too) are attracted to activities/games with a stake tied to them. eg. mahjong. In a void deck of an apt blk in Toa Payoh, there are always some groups of men (no women) playing draughts. There will also be some passers-by, all men, watching. I also stop briefly to watch whenever i pass by…
so i conclude if we ‘transform’ some boardgames to ‘social gambling’ where the stakes are SMALL; where winners are happy and losers are also happy, i’m sure there’ll be lots of interest from the men (and women) to participate. lol!
(and think of the benefits to the brain!) :)
2-ct’s worth.
Hi Terence! I agree with Jassmine that when there is an event involving gambling, the men will be interested. I attended one such game session organized by Frisna last year and the turnout had more men than women. So I guess depending on the activity and whether there is a need for either sexes to chit chat or not, will determine the ratio of male/female participation.
Personally, I am not that sociable. I need time to ‘warm up’ and overtly gregarious people frightens me off. I believe that women as well as men might share this same trait as me.
Ib ‘talk’ a lot online or via sms. Face-to-face, unless I am comfortable with the company I clam up..:p
Cheers
Ros
Men, is it hard to find!
When I first EO SHC Monthly gathering I was told there were more men than women. Now #8 Ros said there were many men at the chalet gathering too.
Let’s see who they are:
MONTHLY GATHERING 20 August 2009:
1.Terence Seah
Lawrence
Conrad
Charles Chua
Kenneth Tan
Boon Liang
Alfred Ang
Patrick S J Lee
Ben Foo
Richard Kee
Cheng Pun
Thomas Loh
Sam Goh
Frank Kaw
Richard Baey
Jonathan Ong
Dan Huang
Y-Gin
Lum Fook
Ronald Wie
James Tan
Paul Kong
Roland Tong
24. Tim Liu
BANLAK/POTLUCK HOME TEAM CHALET 3 Feb 2012:
1. Thomas Loh
Dan Huang
Sam Goh Ah Huat
Charles Wee
Andrew Yeung
Bobby Bok
Lam Hoy Tzee
Ivan Lim
Kheng Lim
Albert
Pat Oei
Freddy Liu
Peter Goh
Bernard (Dorine Tan husband)
15. Douglas
I know some of them are married/have partners but many i.e. 70% I’m not sure about their marital status.
But since this post is not about match making for the singles but rather TO BRING THE GUYS OUT, how about if i organise an event FOR MEN ONLY? e.g.
a. arms wrestling
b. beer drinking competition
c. dart game
d. snookers/billiard
e. disc throwing
f. loudest shouting
g. best (adult) joker
h. best singer (kok or otherwise)
If response is good, can throw in SOCCER or field track too!!
Date: April or June 2013
Day: Thursday OR Saturday (whichever get better response)
Time: 9am (with Soccer) 3PM (without soccer)
Place: a school (if have soccer) or any pub/lounge/community centre
PS: Ladies can come to support with whatever food/things that make the men happy…
Frisna #9
Soccer is a good idea. Don’t forget to have an ambulance on standby. lol!
Jasmine, men don’t need ambulance. They can shed blood but not tears. However, they do need a nurse who is able to give a good kiss of life, haha.
H Friends,
Since the early Nineties, I have been involved with social outings/gatherings and each time the ratio of attendees of male/female is 20-40%/60-80% and with a “higher” ratio of 30-40% of males if the event serves food, there is karaoke singging as well as dancing, card games or mahjong is allowed albeit on minimal bets and presentation of a magic-show, comedy-skit, Speech/Talk being volunteered or professionallised.
My conclusive perception is majority of males tend to belittle social outings/gatherings with the excuses given as “can’t be bothered”, “not exciting”, “my kaki not going”,
“my wife attend, ok what…”, “alah cheapskate…”, “no time for such thing”, “alamak, nothing else better to do”,
“huh! with the ladies like fishmarket in the bus”, “a lot of ladies going, can’t talk straight lah”, etc
Regards
Abel Tan
H Friends,
Since the early Nineties, I have been involved with social outings/gatherings and each time the ratio of attendees of male/female is 20-40%/60-80% and with a “higher” ratio of 30-40% of males if the event serves food, there is karaoke singging as well as dancing, card games or mahjong is allowed albeit on minimal bets and presentation of a magic-show, comedy-skit, Speech/Talk being volunteered or professionallised.
My conclusive perception is majority of males tend to belittle social outings/gatherings with the excuses given as “can’t be bothered”, “not exciting”, “my kaki not going”,
“my wife attend, ok what…”, “alah cheapskate…”, “no time for such thing”, “alamak, nothing else better to do”,
“huh! with the ladies like fishmarket in the bus”, “a lot of ladies going, can’t talk straight lah”, etc
Regards
Abel Tan
Hi Abel, while some of your “excuses” may be true, the use of the word belittle is not appropriate. I am sure many men will disagree. Men and women are by nature different. They accept/admire/appreciate/aspire different things in life. Certainly we don’t say a lady belittles men’s activities just because she does not join.
Now that we know the problems, let us offer a solution, and it is the purpose of this post.
Hi James
Men who can cry are very popular with ladies, going by Korean drama leading men standard. lol!
Sure only a nurse is enough? Sekali after 1 min of kiss of life, no life left! Ambulance got defibrillator. lol!
cheers,
From: Tan Sim Seng SS
don’t think this is a serious problem for SHC if we are serious about it. Aiyah, if only 10% of members were to introduce a male member each, we are home. Even after leaving out the buayas and people who can’t agree to disagree, it is still relatively easy to bring in a new male member each if we want to. Meanwhile, we could also suspend taking in new female members for a period of time or adopt new measures such as for every two new male members we admit one female member. These are stringent measures and should be carefully thought through before implementing. Consideration should also be given for implementation where it has to be seen as fair & transparent for new members to be. So it is a matter of how serious we are. We have to be realistic that even if we are successful in enrolling more male members in EO & EC functions, we will still see more female participation. This is a fact we cannot change although the ratio may improve. So, let us put on our thinking caps lah!
Frisna and Jassmine have come up with specific activities, on how to encourage a more balanced sex ratio in our activities. We have not heard from the other ladies; so we cannot be sure why we get no feedback from them. We have many ladies in the Club, so I can only guess the other ladies are shy, and feel that any such suggestions would not be appropriate because they are ladies.
Other than JamesC, Daniel, Abel and JamesT who have contributed, the other men are definitely shy too. If you have suggestions on Why and how to balance the sex ratio in SilverHairsClub, why not you speak up? I would be very open to suggestions, and I am sure other members are eager to hear from you.
A member wrote to me two weeks ago, and strongly insisted that the Club should drop reminding members periodically of our “No discussions on politics, sex, race, religion, direct selling and MLM”. He feels that the Club is not treating members as adults, as SHCians are capable of making their own decisions and know what is right or wrong. I gave the same reply that these rules were initiated when the Club was formed; and that members agree to abide by these rules when they accept membership of SilverHairsClub. Would relaxing our rules balance the sexes?
To the SilverHairsClub men and ladies, I am sure you can do your share by contributing your observations and suggestions on how to balance our sex ratio in the Club. Even if you have the wildest of ideas, do speak up. Many of you have complained of this imbalance, yet we dont see your active participation. If you are happy with the current situation, then it is a different story. Some members have found their own friends in SHC and no longer see the need for more members and friends.
But for most of us, the sex imbalance is affecting activities participation in a number of activities. Make an effort to share your observations, ideas and suggestions.
Terence Seah
Hi ..this my 1st posting on Gender ratio. From Gym Dance class…Zumba Man 1 – Lady 10, Cha Cha, Samba, Jives Man 1 – Lady 20. Lady chatty – Man Shy. Lady mix easily – Man Lonely. After Dance Class …Lady – Coffe Man – Lonely Lunch…Just an observation & Big Q …WHY ?
Hi Terence, I shall first write my observation, followed by a proposed solution.
In freshmen orientation activities in tertiary institutions, I often see girls kick, pinch, and scratch or squeeze the boys, and the latter are expected to enjoy it. A boy doing the same to a girl can expect a thorough investigation the next day, and possibly a police case. Notably when an ugly dispute arises, the law always give the woman the benefit of the doubt. The same law applies, regardless of whether you are age 8 or 80.
In a group of men and women, a woman can say anything without reservation while a man ought to be careful what he says. A dirty joke by a lady is a laugh while the same joke from a man is lust. Women can make fun of men by calling names or other suggestive remarks but not the other way round. This is the reason why many men choose to remain silent when dining in such a group. Interestingly, such men can talk like a campaigning politician when in an all men gathering.
In congested places where physical contact is inevitable, such as a gym, dance floor or even KTV room; it is okay for the lady to touch a man (inadvertently or otherwise) but the man needs to watch his every step. A wrong move can be interpreted as despicable and repulsive.
To be fair, there are women who are not so sensitive. But to be honest, for every woman who appreciates a man as contributing to the fun and entertainment, there must be another who thinks he is a nuisance.
For obvious reasons, society as a whole is better if men observe certain restraints, particularly during leisure and recreational activities when women are involved. Cautious men therefore, would like to avoid potentially “unnecessary risks” as far as possible; unless of course there is somebody in the group he desires to die for, literally if he must.
“A man goes to sleep with a hard problem often wakes up with a good solution in the morning” (anonymous)
Let me share my solution.
As this “sex imbalance” is not only peculiar to SHC, we shall not and should not attempt to alter it. Who are we to change the natural instincts of men and women?
The word “social activities” is used very loosely here. It actually encompasses so many things and it is not true to say men “shy away” from such activities.
Let us classified our activities according to what senses they primarily stimulate or invigorate:
Eyes – movies, sight-seeing, shopping, performances
Mouth – food, gossip, chit chat, karaoke
Limbs – dancing, gym, walk, sport
Body – massage, spa,
Brain – seminar, talk, discussion, debate, lecture
Among the activities, we can see some are more suitable to be an all men or all women participation event while others are better with a mixed participation.
The explicitly declared taboos for our Club have nothing to do with the “sex imbalance” in our activities. They are mainly to deter people from writing statements in the forum that are offending to members, as well as the population at large who care to read it. As it is now, we cannot restrict what members say when they in an activity. SHC’s image is safe so long as their remarks remain personal and private.
We should work towards organising activities that are attractive to both genders if we want to balance the imbalance. Finally, something puzzles me – why is it necessary to strive for a balance in our activities?
We already have another “branch” tasked to shape up this phenomenon for a good reason, don’t we?
Daniel, while our culture and social behaviour expected of men and women do put men at a disadvantage, i think these are good conditions to a modern society. But, I am not sure if these scenarios are the cause of an imbalanced sex ratio in many of our events. All our feedback so far points to a “no solution” to this observation of more women than men.
I was hoping to read about your proposed solution. Maybe I was not able to see your point. If you elaborate, this can be an eye opener.
You ask why is it necessary to strive for a balance in our activities. Well, I took this issue up separately to try and get a better focus and grip on one of the biggest problems we have in the Club. The response so far is the “Men are rather quiet” and the “women are rather quiet too”.
Unlike social clubs, business clubs have a high percentage of men participation. Perhaps, this is one area we can work on in the coming months.
Terence Seah
Hi Terence, my attempt to answer the question “why the imbalance?” is based on experience, observation and feedback from some(male)friends. While it cannot be the only reason, I believe it is a vital reason, unless we hear the contrary.
You are right when you said, “All our feedback so far points to a “no solution” to this observation of more women than men.” The “imbalance” is a natural phenomenon not a problem. We need not lose too much sleep over this universal “problem”. So far, do we have members citing lop-sided gender numbers as a reason for not attending an activity?
But all is not lost. My proposed solution is to have focused topics that stimulates the brain, such as talks/discussions on current affairs, investment or Feng Shui. More men may attend. Just thinking aloud.
Ooops…after writing my comment, I scrolled to the top to see a beautiful picture. It clearly shows that there are more men participating than women. Quite challenging to discern, but I trust my sight is still okay.