When life gets too painful to live on,
There is death to end the pain,
And none can stop your death act,
But oh, have you not lived in vain?
Her grief was hurting night and day,
Though no one knew; none could read her mind.
One early morn, she ended her pain,
And oh, her mother’s sorrow she left behind.
If life depends on one’s fate,
Hers must be among the saddest,
And Fate being blind, the living can only hope
Their lot will not be among the worst.
-copyright-
Comments/opinions regarding the tragic incident are welcome.
Suicide is a way out but a selfish way. The pain left behind for one’s loved ones, family and friends may collectively be worse than one’s pain.
Seek help to alleviate one’s grief, there is always a way.
My opinion only.
sb
Hi Jassmine
Thank you for your “Reflections”-but does it ends the pain!!!
Going thru life is indeed not a bed of roses but isn’t this is what life is meant to be. People’s have goals and great aspiration, to some means challenge and competition among fellow human beings, even challenge to technolgy and nature, breaking record and the achievement.
Putting a statement is easy when one is healthy and everything goes smoothly.
Thanks to Terence the initiator of SHC who brings people of common interest and like-minded people together.
When you and your love-one walk thru the aisle together bearing in mind the “through happiness and sorrow both will be together till life apart”. When pain and sorrow befalls do we have the courage to divulge to our “love-one” what we have gone through whole-heartily.
To our “love-one” I mean your bed-partner, your parents, your siblings and your close friends. Hope SHC is one of the avenues where you can meet close friends and share your sorrow and pain when needed.
Hi Jassmine, you are correct, I quote-
“One early morn, she ended her pain,
And oh, her mother’s sorrow she left behind.”
This sorrow arise last not a day but many days, even years.
I believe many SHC’ians would love to share on Reflection.
Just my one cent worth.
Cheers to all from Goh
Dear Jassmine
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Indeed the for her, her pain has ended but its the beginning for her love ones who are alive.
SBKhoo @ #1
Yes,its a very selfish act. But I suppose we dont know the amount of pain she is experiencing. I think it can never be measured. I know what its like having gone through this, losing my very dear husband.
I was suicidal too. Nothing mattered anymore. Blinded by the pain and sorrow, even my grieving mum and daughters were transparent to me.
However, in this kind of situation, the grieving person must have very strong family love and support to pull it through. Also, he or she has to be determined and strong enough to want to live a meaningful life again. It can be very tough though thats why some people choose to end it all cos for them at that moment, its the only way out.
Goh @ #2
Yes, if we feel unhappy or have a problem, its good that we have friends in SHC whom we can share and seek help or advice. The pain will lessen considerably.
Carly
Hi Jassmine
Thanks for posting and sharing. There is so much more to life but true, when one is at the moment of deepest despair, thoughts of suicide occur. And sadly, they take place.
I hope and am confident that SHC will be a group where members will feel and give the support wherever and whenever it is needed. Through the varied activities and even posts, a member feels connected.
Hope to meet up with you again.
Joan (Perth)
i think there’s a need to identify the tragic incident that spawned the poem ‘Ending The Pain’ for members who missed reading the newspaper reports or are not aware of the incident –
A young widow recently killed herself eight months after her groom was found dead at the bottom of the Hilton Hotel on their wedding night.
i was thinking: how very devastating for her and what did she do to be so ill-fated. i think the double tragedies is unprecedented.
What really happened to the bridegroom remains a great mystery. Any Sherlock Holmes in SHC?
Hello Caroline #3,
Really appreciate your sharing a painful, personal experience. Time will take away the sharpness of pain. The challenge is whether the person in pain is ‘strong’ enough to give time the opportunity to heal his/her pain.
Hi SK #1, Goh #2, Joan @4,
The younger generation (Gen Y)- their mindset is personal fulfilment first, the ‘me first’ generation, so they generally don’t consider the effects their action may have on their loved ones.
Schools should consider teaching Confucius ethics and filial piety …wish i were the education minister. lol! :)
Cheers,
@#6 – It should be ‘Hi SB #1 ‘ and not ‘SK’. Paiseh.
Hi Jasmine,
Thanks for sharing this thread which really hit a nerve for me and family. Both my in-laws are bed-ridden for the past 17yrs going on 18 and sometimes I wonder if we (the family members) are doing the right thing in keeping them alive despite all costs. We can see that they’re suffering but yet there’s little or nothing we can do to help them except to save them each and every time there’s an emergency. I’m sure if they’re able to, they would have taken their own life but since they’re immobile and unable to communicate, they’re at our mercy, so to speak. Many a times we asked ourselves if we did the right thing in prolonging their life but I guess it’s true, we humans can be selfish in some ways where we want to keep our loved ones with us for as long as we can and yet on the other hand, we do not want to suffer. We can only hope and pray that their day will come where they’ll suffer no more and finally call it a day and end their sufferings. Rgds, Lisa O
To die or not to die, that’s the question. To let die or not to let die, then the same qn becomes humongous.
Filial piety and values which we want our kids to uphold prevent us from sometimes doing smthg, while it falls short of the moral yardstick, is sensible and is what the sufferer prefers. But how many dare to be seen as letting his loved ones die when there’s no cure but treatment there is, nvm the emotional dimension?
Jass-T, you hv confirmed what I suspected..that you were affected – perhaps even afflicted – by the sad end to that widow’s life.
I hv left instructions that if it’s time to exit (voluntary or otherwise) do pls do the gracious for me, let me go. And let me go immediately. Dont display me over days and nites (with people taking leave to keep vigil on me lest I run away, the humdrum in the day doing nothing except munching melon seeds) and then parade me thru a few streets and roads before the baptism of fire. Just send me direct to be turned into ashes.
Thank you for sharing the verse on Ending the Pain. It is sad but true.
We all have different coping levels to life’s challenges and when it gets unbearable or un-copable, suicide would be a way out.
Hi Tim #9,
Like you, I’ve also given the same instructions to my family that if it’s time for me to go, just make it quick and clean by cremation and have my ashes strewn to the open sea or lake. But looking back at my in-laws case, it’s sometimes not your choice alone and esp. when you have more than 1 child with differing views, it’s very hard for everyone to agree as each has their own valid reason for keeping you alive – this is the dilemna we’re in as no family member is willing to let go of their loved ones. Altho they’re not my parents but I treat them so and can fully understand their love for their parents BUT are we doing the right thing to prolong their sufferings and do they want to remain living like a vegetable, well…no one has the answer except ‘them’ and we can only continue to assume that what we’re doing is the best for them. Would love to hear from someone who have been in this dilemna to share with me. Lisa O
Thanks Jassmine. Yes, only the strong will survive.
Its a sorry situation nowadays that the authorities have to twist the children’s arms(not all of them though) before they are willing to take care of their parents.
Dear Lisa #11
I watched my mum suffer in pain. Its heart wrenching. The only thing I could do was to take her on her Doctor’s visits, to the hospital when the need arises, cook her favourite food, give her massages and “hit” her with the rubber ball attached to a stick. She was in so much pain that she asked me to hit very hard and I am so afraid to do it. Her groans and tears can drive me into despair and depression. Just writing about it still bring tears to my eyes. She told me that she would have jumped down from the tallest building but she said it would not be fair to me as I take good care of her and that the first thing that comes to people’s mind would be that this old lady took her life because of ill-treatment from her daughter. I can hear her calling out to the Heavens to let her die. And after many years of suffering, she finally got her wish.
So Lisa, just love them and attend to their needs (which I am sure thats exactly what you and your family have been doing) for as long as they are still around. There is really nothing much you can do about it if their time is not up. I know it can be trying, physically and mentally. Take care.
p.s. Contrary to what I heard through the grapevine about people talking about my reason for sharing my experience, no I am not seeking sympathy or attention.
Carly
Hi Lisa #8 & 11, Caroline #12,
It’s always very sad seeing an elderly sick, bedridden, suffering the lingering kind, but when you see your frail mother or father in chronic pain, suffering, you feel distressed and wish you could take over the suffering …
i think following the doctor’s advice on whether to go or not to go all out to save the sick will reduce our guilty feeling.
There is also something called palliative care or pain management. The hospice does this…so i think while we are still healthy and lucid , it’s good to tell family members in advance what kind of care/treatment we want, and most of all, tell them not to feel guilty and grieve too long…i think this is doing them a favour.
Hi Tim #9,
Now that WC is over, you have the time to indulge in your kacau kind of writing again.
Regarding the tragic incident, i was more affected by the pic of the deceased’s mother crying while following the hearse.
Leaving instructions …is good but must be thorough – cover all the main aspects. Did u leave out how you want your ashes to be handled? The price of a niche at eye level is VERY expensive…so must have kua char poon. ….just joking :)
Hi Anna #10
For someone suicidal, access to a support group is crucial. Support groups are usually made up of pple who had gone through the same or similar crisis and had pulled through. In this sense a support group can be more effective than professional counsellors.
my 2 cts’ worth.
Hi Carly #12 and Jasmine #13,
Many thanks for sharing and all those encouraging words and this is exactly what we’re doing now i.e. take the doctors advice to address whatever pain we guess they’re experiencing as there’s no way we can tell except put ourselves in their place. The most frustrating thing is that we can’t tell for sure if they’re hot or cold, in pain or feeling uncomfortable somewhere and there’s no way we can tell and we can see that the maids are also at a loss of what to do and just leave them to shout and moan everyday – sometimes too painful to watch. Only consolation is when they’re given some sedative by the doctors and could sleep for a few hours. Many thanks to everyone who have shared on this thread and it helps to know that we’re not alone in this. Have a good weekend everyone! Rgds, Lisa
I concur with Jassmine @#15 nentioning support group which is very crucial.
Caroline @#3- I salute you for what you have gone thru cos Anna#10 points out “suicide would be a way out”.
At the end of the day if one tried in our capability, monetary and energy in all honesty one should not feel apologetic about it even tho depression will creeps in and our live may ‘turn upside down’.
“Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we may die” is a common maxim that many people live by. Is this life what we choose to live!!! Honestly, I do not have the answer myself.
The main obstacle in ourselves is the unwillingness to open oneself during moment of trouble. I believe courage is needed to “open-up” oneself to loved one and close friends and (professional counsellors).
IMHO it is not easy for a person to live alone, afterall we are social ‘animal’ who need companion, be it your loved one or friends (or support group).
I hope I do not fall into the trap of NATO and always telling myself self-reflection is very important which hopefully leads to sincere communication with others.
My personal thot and hope it is worth 2 cts, haha.
I don’t know if anyone here has ever felt so depressed, so demoralized, so ALONE at one time or another in his/her life when things just didn’t work out and accusations fall like bricks upon his/her head. Wouldn’t the thought ‘Die better’ have crossed the mind? Fortunately, the mind will also run through the methodology to ‘die’ and the inner voice in our minds will also say ‘What if I don’t die and end up being a handicap or as a vegetable?’
I reckon the people who actually go through the act of killing themselves are at the pit bottom of absolute depression and they just can’t pull themselves out with or without the help of loved ones.
The irony is that those who commit suicide believe that their deaths will be a relief to their loved ones. This is especially so if family/spousal relationships are fraught with dissentions.
So angry, clicked the wrong button and what I wrote, disappeared, as suddenly as death in a suicide.
No, Jass-T, you wont see that kacau man tim again, much as you missed him as such. Now, he wont even do the drool but will still do the macaw talk.
Aftercare for my ashes? Niche at eye level? Haha……….
If I can hv it my way, I’ll ask that my corpse, fresh after death, be chopped into finger food sizes to be fed to the hungry and so obviate their worry over at least the next meal, Problem is, the polis might not know that I was dead when they cut me up and so might charge my folks for murder.
Ashes/ What ashes? Like bbq, just burn me enough for the fleash to go and then pick up the tenderly roasted bones as soupbones for bak-kut-teh. D24 guarabteed.
When i go, I’d like to leave smthg savoury behind. Certainly not a niche or tombstone and bother people to pay for its maintenance and take leave to go say hello to me.
Frankly, a close butty of mine passed away recently. He was a beefy hunk but not the same him lay in that long box. My eyes mositened and I stepped away quickly. Not my classmate. He was staring in there, shell-shocked and i had to gently yank him away.
So, when it comes to my turn, why let anyone cry at me when i cant do a bigger cry at them for a better reason?
Why cry if I was an enemy? If I was a friend, shdnt he celebrate that I was finally in nirvana where there’s no erp or income tax to pay, atms dont break down, no kelong when you invest in soccer, no foreign talent to quarrel with or fear, no GRC, and osama wont be hunted down as a terrorist but enjoys the same standing as obama as cooks in the curry house of rama…………everyone, everythg is sama……sama sama.
Dear Caroline#12,
Do not be bothered by those who think you are trying to get attention or sympathy by sharing your painful experience. They can go suck.
I know you are reliving your pain again as you wrote; I know all too well what you had gone through.
Time does lessen the pain and grieve; I still grieve for my late dad but the pain is considerably less.
Take it easy and when we meet again, we’ll hold hands and talk some more.
Hugs
Dearest Caroline #3 and #12,
Thanks for your sharing. I fully empathise with you..
The pain and grief a person feels in such a situation is a normal reaction to an ‘abnormal’ situation. Literally, it is like the pain of ‘a knife piercing through the heart with all the blood gushing out’. The closer one is to the person lost (through death, divorce or other reasons), the greater will be the pain. However, one has to be v strong and with the support of loved ones, friends and prayers, time will heal the wound, albeit the recovery time may be different for each individual. After all, we are all unique.
Let me QUOTE from an email circulated to me recently:
“I am the only person upon which my happiness depends. I make the choice to be happy in each situation and in each moment of my life. If my happiness were to depend on other people, on other things or circumstances on the face of this earth, I would be in serious trouble! Everything that exists in this life changes continually, humans, wealth, my body, the climate, pleasures etc. Happiness will always be found in forgiveness and in loving yourself and others. Being happy is an attitude about life and each of us must decide. Being happy depends on you!”
My heart goes out to you, Caroline.
Lots of love and hugs,
Gabriella Chua
Dear Goh @17
Thanks very much.
Geraldine Dear @20
Muah! Muah! Thanks very much. People who have gone through the pain of losing their loved ones will be able to understand our feelings better.
Hope to see you again soon and yes we will talk some more. Miss you Babe.
Gabriella Dear @21
Yes you are right. Worst of all is the pain lasts for a long long time. Also, I get into less depression modes these days. With all those emails coming in about a better way to live our lives, you stop to think about it very much and try to practise what I read. Learn to jump the hurdles when they come to you. I have a better control over my emotions. And I am glad for that.
Its less painful now. So if there is anyone out there who needs a shoulder to cry on, you can call on me. I may cry with you cos I am a “humbaotello” but I have strong shoulders and a mean hug.
Thanks Geraldine and Gabriella for the love and hugs :D
Carly
Hi Carly #22,
If you’re a humbaotello, then I’m a humbaotella even when watching a sad movie, I need to hold a tissue across my face to catch those tears as wiping would be considered too slow. Anyway, always think of positive and happy things and if you ever need a shoulder, I’m sure there’s plenty out here lining up for you. It’s nice to know that we have so many people out there for support. Thanks again each & everyone for sharing. Have a great weekend! Rgds, Lisa O
Hi Goh # 17,
Your comments are definitely worth 2cts – just like mine :)
Regarding this popular saying ‘eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we may die’ – before adopting this lifestyle, make sure you are financially independent first – don’t let your money run out before death occurs …..
my 2 cts’ worth.
Tim # 19,
Since you wish to leave something savoury behind, don’t just donate your bones for bak kut teh. Send your carcass (oops – cadaver) to ‘the curry house of rama’…
.. and give up your ‘communistic’ ideal (‘everyone, everything is sama …sama sama’) unless you can alter the truism: “Two legs good; some are better”
i can hear your macaw squawking…
Well, Jass-T, if there’s an earthling Rama who wants me for his curry, I am ok but he will hv to contend with polis knocking on his doors. Leftovers after a cremation will definitely rule out any claim that I was murdered.
If anythg, i am more a nazi than a communist…….
Sad to read in the ST abt the family of 6 which survive on a measly $300 monthly. Now, the sole-breadwinner is dead. Ok, donations will pour in from readers in the next days and weeks but months and years later?
The 47 year old widow cant speak English (so she’s not expected to know anything abt investments)> All the children appear to hv low IQ or sick, or both. So will they live happy lives? It’s for them to judge but isnt it good if there’s an avenue avaliable for people to call it a day, not labour thru the pain of living and not be a burden to tax payers?
Isnt “only the fittest shd survive” what a nazi thinks?
If this life can be lived all over again, I will not marry, say no to all kinds of offers and propositions attractively packaged as investments, avoid getting into arguments, frown IT, eat only vegetables so as to save at least 10,000 animals I consume in a life-span. In short, I want to be a monk.
But wdnt that be living a life in vain when there’re so many and so much on earth to tempt and to entice me, and where debauchery is the name of the game?
So my fervent prayer to the almighty is, pls pls dont let me come back again after my departure. I’d rather stay down-under with obama, osama, rama rubbing bananas and exchanging papayas anytime we suka with no polis to tell us this is alamak and that is also alamak.
?????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????? ?????6???????????????????????? ????????
Tim @# 25
If you get reincarnated as a monk, it’ll be your good fortune. Modern monks, like pastors from mega churches, are dripping with money. You’ll have no fewer than 6 credit cards and own a horse…..no material deprivations at all…
…in fact u can have your cake and eat it as well for in life you’ll enjoy the adulation of your devotees; in death you’ll be down under partying with rama and company, screaming …and there’s no ending the screams with death bcos all have died, so the screams will go on …and on…and on …to infinity.
so sad :(
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????? ????????????
Haha, i dont know what form or in what disguise of monk you had the good fortune of meeting. Monks pray, dont play. Monks asks for alms but if there was one who put his their ass in yr arms, believe me, he wasnt a monk. Run, hide wear a garlic ring round ye neck………..jist do anythg but be close to him.
Heheee…………..
Tim-L,
MMMMmmmmmmm …. does this means LIFE skcus?
Well, must be! Bcos am still paying for all the sins committed in past lives; too much doolb bled.
Will still be paying for it the next (cycle of) eight lives ….
Well, even monk-hood-priest-hood-iman-hood-brama-hood also cannot help bring peace ….
What to do? Life just goes (sh*t) on lah!
IL
Reading Bro Tim & Bro Ivan n all other Sis n Bros here leaves one with a heavy heart. The heart is heavy when there’s no answer, but still this is a good tread.
When reflecting on life’s conditions, nowadays I often think of one man.
In total darkness, suddenly there was a tiny light above, and the light shone down, suddenly a man fell down to the floor, and as he got up to face the audience, the light shine on his face, and there U see the irresistable MR BEAN.
Seeing the comical face of Mr Bean, the audience roared with laughter, and he grinned back at the audience gratefully knowing he has brought laughter n joy to this world.
In reflection, like Mr Bean, none of us asked to come to this world, but v r here nevertheless, althought not as dramatic as Mr Bean’s!! haha.
Like Mr Bean n as fellow journey man on this endless highway( sometimes v wonder wht the F is this journey all about), let’s create more laughter n joy for each other along the way and make this journey lighter n more bearable for each other. Tht why there’s SHC !!! hehehe
So this Sat. I shall hv a good toast with Bros Tim, Ivan n all the bros n sisters of SHC n celebrate this journey together. hahahaha
Wow Henry-bhai,
“So this Sat. I shall hv a good toast with….all..of SHC..”
OK, this calls for a bottle of XO to be corked ….. since No corkage charge for hard liquor will be levied.
note: bhai is bangoli’s equivalent to brother…not tat “c***b*” ok! hahahaha!!!
Haha, brudders, hope I hv not affected you both. Will be attending another wake tomorrow nite but this time, she goes at a ripe old age and good riddance of the pain plagueing her for a while.
Btw, think Jass-T was entangled not with a monk but with his hairy humsup cousin……………monk—-ey. Heeee.
Since you both too are excited with the D&D – bleed and bhai somemore – so nochoice? I’ll hv to wear smthg.
Ok, wont want to paint life so bleakly but will share what good fun one can get at a k’ok.
???sui?“??”?“????”??“????”???????(Mahatma Ghandi)???(Confucius)?????????????????????????????
Hokien song “??”???????????????????????? pung sai. ???????pung sai??????????????“????”???????????????????????????
Back in my melancholic mood again.
Raintree fell and crushed a car, pinning its driver to death. His bro was reported to be crying openly, devastated by the death of a loved one.
Me more convinced now that if the clock cd be turned back, best if it’s only I, me, myself and be spared of all possibilities of emotional pain due to kinship or blood ties. Not helped that I am incorrigibly sentimental.
Not 1 but 2 casinos are up. Gale is wailing, tress are falling, more floods.
To the superstitious, these are linked. It’s an omen. The faithful devouts are muttering more amens silently, that the repercussions of throwing a stone and hitting a desperate gambler, wont out-weigh the benefits of adding omph to the economy. The skyline will continue to rise and be beautiful but with the weight, will it sink a tiny red dot?
Neither a doomsayer nor a soothsayer, so I wont look that far into the future, certainly not beyond the YOG. Hope we wont be HOGs for the butcher’s taking but even if that happens, so what? Arent we a young nation all eager to learn?
Haha…………..
Tim @# 31
For a good laugh, translate your Chinese text to English with the SHC translation aid.
You were almost spot-on about my entanglement with a monkey. Here’s the tale:
in a all tree,
an amorous monkey;
walking by, two unrelated ladies.
down jumped the huge monkey
and hugged he the first lady!
she screamed!
out came a man.
he yelled at the bold monkey.
the beast let go of the lady,
and into the undergrowth he ran.
the poor victim
gasped and trembled;
watching three metres away,
the second lady
shivered.
“luckily that monkey
was not interested in me!”
murmured she,
and quickly made her way out
of MacRitchie.
-copyright-
cheers :)
Haha, dont you think that the 2nd gal was a sour grape to say what she did, that she cdnt even enthuse and rouse the interest of a monkey?
Nice that this thread has become less morbid with ladies vying for the attention of monks and monkeys, hehee……
Jonathan-O, thank you for wishing the partyers well.
After midnite when the cakrawala is over, and if you still are awake, do wait at the overhead bridge linking Peoples Park C and Furama. Many will probably remove their sweat-soaked pyjamas, lingeries whatever. I will pick them up for you. Smell them all the way home (which makes sweet wet dreams thereafter). Then, boil them t make soup. Guaranty very ??one………..also a sure cure for constipation.
Jass-T, borrow yr thread for some reflection hor, thanks !
???????“??”
???“???????”???????????????? ????????????? ??????????????????
???????????????“mandarin duck”. ????“???”?????? ?“?”??“?”???????????“???”?Donald Duck????????????
“???????”???????????????????? ??????????????????????
?????????????????
Hey Tim,
i think u want to make life a bit difficult for members who can’t read chinese characters well, is it? Bai4 tuo1 – please have an English version after the chinese text so we can see what’s worthy of your reflection and offer our takes.
After several cross referencings, here’s my take:
1. a rose by any other name is still a rose, so yuanyang is Mandarin duck in English.
2. there’s no worry that the beautiful mandarin duck becomes the ugly donald duck due to a carelessness becos they represent two different ‘species’ – mandarin duck is a real bird; donald duck is Disney’s talking bird.
3. rearing mandarin ducks – must have a pair of them at least – in our silver/golden years is definitely siang3 shou4. Problem is how many of us have a pond at home? i think i’ll rear guppies. They are as colourful as mandarin ducks. :)
cheers,
Jass-T, dot worry, you missed nothing worthy of read of note.
But what i just missed moments ago was wothy of a stake in Tomasek Holdings.
See, this year is 2010. SG was founded in 1819. @mrw is NatDay. So, it’s a no brainer that 1019 has to be THE number.
I asked for an advance of all my CPF and threw into this nombor. Mati when the 2nd price was 0019 – where is logic and where is justice?
Now, no Tomasek, no to masak but tomb I seek……….
‘My heart is heavy with sorrow and grief’ – ST 7/10/2010
Prologue
A private window opened;
A peek revealed a tale close to the heart,
Of pain and suffering, of anguish,
And of ’till death do us part’.
They were a pair of yuanyang*
Always seen together,in tandem gliding,
On waters turbulent or calm,
And a nation’s destiny creating.
One day one yuanyang fell ill.
For more than two years, no matter how late,
The other yuanyang kept her company;
His was a devotion great.
Now the unwell yuanyang is gone;
Bereft, the surviving yuanyang bravely carries on…
*Mandarin ducks
– A tale of great devotion. Copyright.
Jass-T, good to read the poetic you again.
Altho, yuanyang ???? is sometimes called “mandarin duck”, it has been mis-heard and mistaken as marinated duck. So for a nice poem, think better to say “Chinese doves”.
???????
?????????
???????
?????????
???????
????????????
???????
?????????
???????
?????????
Hi Tim L #39,
Appreciate your little critique. Because of the deeper layer of meaning, the symbolism of yuanyang is more suitable than the Chinese doves/turtle doves.
Your Chinese poem is a surprise! So sentimental! Were you thinking of liang san bo chu ying tai (the butterfly lovers)? Here’s a song think you’ll appreciate – Xin yuanyang hu tie meng (new yuanyang butterfly dream).
Happy listening/singing… :)
Of cos of cos, Jass-T, it has to be “yuanyang” in tne text of yr poem. Anythg else – turtle doves, ninja turtle, yuanhun (??) – will take away the beauty. What I meant was, the asterisked ref below wd better explain yy as Chinese doves.
???108??anytime better than that ???????Even???is more macho so no, I wasnt exactly thinking of LSP and CYT.
Ok, thanks, will go look for that song, right now, go koon liao……………
#41 Tim L
Oh i see, it’s a lexical issue. Can i clarify – Does the Chinese dove swim? As far as i know all doves are non-swimmers.
Sure, Jass-T, a lexical issue it is but still, no reason to be lax, yeah?
I hv seen a lot of cuckoo and coocoo but a Chinese dove ? Even if I saw 1 before I wont know it was. So, cant tell whether it can swim or it has hairs or feathers or both.
#43 Tim L
and i thought my qn (re.42)was a no-brainer! You HAVE seen a Chinese dove if you’ve seen a yuanyang (and you MUST have seen an embroidered yuanyang, if not a real one) becos in your opinion, a yuanyang is a Chinese dove…..tio bo? methinks something must have short-circuited somewhere..
.. anyway, meaning-wise, i think ‘Chinese dove’ to mean yuanyang is a MISNOMER becos as we know, doves cannot swim and yuanyang can. So i think ‘Mandarin duck’ is lexically more accurate as English name for yuanyang.
For closure, let the Chinese-English dictionary be the arbitrator :)
Haha, why fuss over what the bird is, be it a Chinese dove, mandarin duck, a duck marinated by johnson lock or a condor, the unlikely love-bird of Yang Guo and Xiao Long Nui.
The only embroidered animal I keep is a baboon……yuanyang is too sissy.
To survive in this tough world, we go for training, upgrade ourselves, multi-task. Doves, whether Chinese or Mongolian. too hv shped up and dont idle around kissing…….they hv not only learned to swim but also outlasted fish in water.