Here is a very good discussion on minimum sum.
http://info.channelnewsasia.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=33132&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=395fc2f5b76d2e1f0bab0686eabd4573
It is a complex issue in itself. But for the purpose of this discussion, the impact of this is that you will be obliged to keep back S$120K for which the government will pay you $711 per moth between the ages of 62 to 82. If that’s all you have, try not to die before or after that age.
Let’s first concentrate on staying in Singapore. In five years time, you will find it impossible to maintain even a basic conventional lifestyle in Singapore for that sum unless you take a vow of poverty.
Here is the best Plan B for Spore retirees. This is in the form of new Elder Studios coming in at a projected $190K per unit by some estimates. You can downgrade releasing the difference in capital value to supplement your savings. You would be wise then to minimally put savings up to $500K in annuity to create an additional $2K per month for life. Together with the CPF minimum sum provision you will have up to 2.7K per month from 62 to 82 and $2K for the balance of time. You should be able to maintain a reasonable standard of living in Singapore.
If you cannot raise this amount here are few additional tips. If you need to, sell your car to scrap together this amount. If you do not wish to downgrade, you can consider putting your existing property into a reverse mortgage to raise the shortfall.
If you are still short of this sum then you can turn a page to a still controversial proposal Plan C. Terence has provided the lead. We expect that the new Elder Studios will eventually come under a new management corporation (MC) structure. Unlike present MC which tend to focus on maintenance of fixed assets and running of the estate, this MC will have extended mandate to run the estate like a retirement village or full service apartments. The MC like any organisation can then have economies of purchase. They can also provide extended services like maid services, common kitchen and transportation. If this can be achieved then we can see a stretching of the dollar and our hope for a more leisurely lifestyle here.
I would like to hear views, opinions, experiences and recommendations on living and retiring abroad. Many members have expressed interest in an alternative lifestyle.
We have been told that it is possible to live in Thailand for under SIN$500. Places like Chiangmai, Chonburi and Krabi have been cited as possible locations. Some members have even visited possible locations for a taste of the possibilities.
Here is a chance for us to collate details and share information specifically on middle and long term experience of living abroad.
Let me start the ball rolling with the most important issue. How do we actually fund such a lifestyle. Can we afford it?
This can be very simple. You can get an annuity. By placing SIN$100,000 in an annuity you can get the equivalent of SIN$450 per month for life. If you place SIN$500,000, you get back about SIN$2,000 per month for life. This is a princely sum which will give a couple a life of luxury abroad. With this you can also get the best hospitalisation program and medical cover that money can buy.
You can do this without having to lift another finger in labour or earn another cent in your life.
You won’t be able to do with the same quality of life in Singapore. It is just too costly.
Annuity
1 There are many cos offering annuity for retirees. There is one offering $xxxx plus annual increments. This increments, once given will not be taken away.It will form part of the payout. So the monthly annnuty will increase each yr. Of course this will depend on the cos performance.
2 Annuty can be taken out early. U need not wait until 55 yrs. The earlier U start the bigger the payout.
3 The minimum sum in special account will pay $711 p m for about 20 yrs.
4 Annuity is for life time ie until death.
5 For those who live long , annuity will provide a little comfort and financial security.
6 A combination of both can be considered.
7 To put all savings in one cos can be very risky. We are living in changing time. The social,economic and political landscape is changing very fast. Liquity is also impt.
8 The cost of living will continue to escalate.
9 Plan well .
10 let have more people sharing
This is an interesting topic which I have heard many times. Is there no possibility that we can live simple but not really that comfortable in Singapore for SGD500 and under with all other things paid up? Same cost may not buy you a better quality because different places are just different unless you are using the same measure to determine the results. Bearing in mind that we are borne and brought up here. Our Roots, our family, our friends and relatives are here. Our assets are here. There are also plenty of meaningful activities where we can choose to engage ourselves in. Last of all, I am proud to be a Singaporean, a 1st class citizen here.
It is almost impossible to live on $500 pm.
Assuming there are no more responsiblity and liability,these are some of the monthly costs,
1 conservancy
2 pub
3 telephone
4 hp
5 tv/property tax yrly
6 internet
These costs more than $100 leaving very little for daily expenses. It is sufficient for the very old who stay at home or sit on the void deck. ten yrs from today inflation would have eroded our purchasing power. We are gradually becoming a very expensive city. High economic growth also means high inflation. It cut both ways. I fully understand many who are finding ways to stretch their dollars.
Pls share your thoughts and ideas
Although I have lived in Thailand for more than 15 years, I would say SGD 500 or 12,500 Baht per month is possible, provided we are able to share the resources and other day-to-day items. There is synergies in living together, common cooking. Any additional $ obviously is a blessing.
In Singapore, it can be very tough. Of course, if the roof is there, and one stays at home, with food provided from members of the family, I guess SGD 500 is sufficient.
I think the biggest concern is when we are sick, cannot move or need someone to feed us. Treatment is frightening. The SGD 500 is not enough.
But, where is this money coming from? Savings, insurance, annuities, pensions? That figure from annuities is likely to be about SGD 700. If this is the case, then we are forced to keep to within this amount, whether it is sufficient or not.
I am a strong believer of stretching the dollar. I do not advocate migrating to another country. But, 3 things are important to me. They are (1) I must stay healthy and able to walk (2) I can stretch my dollar SGD 500 – 600 per month and (3) I still want to enjoy the fresh air and see the world, cheaply and within my means. I support enjoying the different countries in Asia, for short periods of 3 months, within what most countries can give their visas, then return to Singapore, to see our little grandchildren, and then maybe go out again, and stretch the next 3 x SGD 500.
Really, I dont know if this will work, but I am definitely working in this direction.
Great topic.
Terence Seah
Ladies & Gentlemen,
I am not sure whether the following options can work or not:
1) Lead the Senior Citizen programmes by having a Senior Citizen corners at the void deck of any HDB flat. You can cook, wash, stay in this place w/o worrying on Electricity or Water Bills.
2) Apply as a Caretakers and stay in the Churches, Schools or Private residentials.
3) Form a group of retirees and apply for government subsidies for a plot of State Lands to build an Old Forks Community. Engage Government Doctors for periodic free medical check up at the premises. The rental for the property and the building funds can be generated through donations or from charitable organisations.
As long as we can walk and don’t fell sick and ill, we should be able to live an abundant life.
Above is what I think can be one of a thrifty way to live in Singapore after retire.
What is your point of view?
Regards
Patrick Yeo
Here is a very good discussion on minimum sum.
http://info.channelnewsasia.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=33132&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=395fc2f5b76d2e1f0bab0686eabd4573
It is a complex issue in itself. But for the purpose of this discussion, the impact of this is that you will be obliged to keep back S$120K for which the government will pay you $711 per moth between the ages of 62 to 82. If that’s all you have, try not to die before or after that age.
Let’s first concentrate on staying in Singapore. In five years time, you will find it impossible to maintain even a basic conventional lifestyle in Singapore for that sum unless you take a vow of poverty.
Here is the best Plan B for Spore retirees. This is in the form of new Elder Studios coming in at a projected $190K per unit by some estimates. You can downgrade releasing the difference in capital value to supplement your savings. You would be wise then to minimally put savings up to $500K in annuity to create an additional $2K per month for life. Together with the CPF minimum sum provision you will have up to 2.7K per month from 62 to 82 and $2K for the balance of time. You should be able to maintain a reasonable standard of living in Singapore.
If you cannot raise this amount here are few additional tips. If you need to, sell your car to scrap together this amount. If you do not wish to downgrade, you can consider putting your existing property into a reverse mortgage to raise the shortfall.
If you are still short of this sum then you can turn a page to a still controversial proposal Plan C. Terence has provided the lead. We expect that the new Elder Studios will eventually come under a new management corporation (MC) structure. Unlike present MC which tend to focus on maintenance of fixed assets and running of the estate, this MC will have extended mandate to run the estate like a retirement village or full service apartments. The MC like any organisation can then have economies of purchase. They can also provide extended services like maid services, common kitchen and transportation. If this can be achieved then we can see a stretching of the dollar and our hope for a more leisurely lifestyle here.
Do read ST article Page Prime 3 2 Aug 2006 “Sharp rise in number of elderly living alone”.
The global aging problem is here to stay. The statistics offered describes those over 65 and who are “poor and isolated”. With sharply escalating cost of living, the actual group of senior citizens over 55 and in some form of need to restructure their retirement lifestyle will multiply many more times. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
Keep this article as a Survival 101 manual in the event that your situation slides. But it should not overly concern members here. If you can log in leisurely to this forum, you are unlikely to qualify.
I think what concerns most here is how to maximize our retirement years without having to compromise on our lifestyle.
Living on a budget of S$500 or less is possible assuming one is robust and healthy and stay prudent in spending.
I was in Shanghai for 12 months on a working assignment. Gathered that if one is not particular about accommodation, one could get by with this. May even be possible if it is away from cities.
Hi, I,m a new member now “retired” but very busy trying to develop an eco village and applying to the Thai Authorities re setting up a community back-to-nature foundation. My base is at Nature Farm Resort, Trang, South Thailand (near Krabi & Phuket ( ref. http://www.trangsea.com/ http://www.longstay.trangsea.com) – far away from the three problem provinces at the Thai-Malaysian border).
My Thai wife (age 53) says I (age 62)should join this club to be in touch with my “countrymen”. Actually, I’m Malaysian but work in Singapore for some years (and I’ve withdrawn all my CPF and EPF to finance my mission and vision in Thailand). Anyway, I don’t believe in one being retired as if we have to give up the normal activities of life such as being useful and being a participant in society. I hope most us over 55 will not take this as a stop point but rather a freedom point to do the things each one of us secretly wants to do but never got round to. Now is the time, go for it, do the crazy things, don’t listen to anybody trying to push you down. It’s not over yet. Life is ahead of us still. We are wiser now. We wasted too many years in schooling,and more years in working for others. From now on, let’s work for ourselves and for peace of mind so that we won’t be a nuisance to others in touch with us. Be a hero. Many have fallen and even died before our age. So, move on. Tell me I’m wrong. Better still, visit me in Trang and see and enjoy Nature – for much less than 500 sing $. Bye for now. My workers are calling.
Yes Laurence,
I have read the article Eco-village in Trang,Thailand many times. I like it the very the idea and am really happy to hear you are moving there. But what is the fuss about ? I would think a more suitable place for Singaporeans wanting to be near their family will be to have an same Eco-village set up just right at JB, there are many suitable places. In fact there is one for millionaires already i.e Leisure Farm resort villas at Nusajaya, cheapest house is S$200K. Why not a similar Eco Village right across JB, i am sure it can be done. You can do farming,fishing, planting fruit trees, there and when you like visit your family (or the IRs by then) over the weekend. Medical can still be in Singapore, so you can get the best of both Worlds. But how do we go about it? I can do it myself , just rent a kampong house and stay on the beach side, but we need a community to have some form of interaction and social life. Hey, tell us more about it , so it seems you have already bid for the lot in TRang, i thought the bidding is still open ? Hey Laurence, if you are free, why not join a few us, that are meeting at the NLB lobby at 5.30pm Thursday to talk about trip to Malacca, etc, it seems you are already on the right track towards a good retirement plan.
Cheers, Allrounder ( just retired, ex Malaysian also, so do really know what Kampong living is about )
Hi Allrounder, your trip to Malacca sounds interesting and good. Perhaps you and your guys can extend an invitation to us SHC members here to join in. I m sure it will be an opportunity for members to meet and get to know each other better.
Dear Allrounder,
It would be really nice to meet with fellow formmers. Is this the National Library Lobby opposite Bugis Junction tomorrow Thurs 3 Aug 2006? Who will be there and how do we recognise each other.
Actually, there is an experimental retirement village coming up nearby in JB for S’poreans. It is expected to be ready mid next year. It is not an eco-village but a holiday villa type in the middle of a golf course for a low cost resort living. It is said to be 20 years in the making and is being organised by large Spore organisations.
Yes, Wong where we you we did meet at NLB today and have the Malacca trip all planned out. Yes, invitation is open to all, and if there more than 1 car so much the better.
Trip planned leaving on the 10th Aug 0830hrs, meeting at Newton Bus Stop heading towards Woodlands. So far, there is 3 of us , me , Dave and Andrew. Places visiting , Malacca town, staying at Hotel Puri which is actually a typicall Nyonya house renovated into a Hotel but preserving the culture and authenticity of the Nyona Heritage. Also will be visiting Tanjong Kling, Tanjong Bidara, Port Dickson ,and the Eco village that you mentioned which is at the second link,near palm resort golf course.
Cheers,
Raincheck this time. Sounds lovely. But like most Singaporeans, holidays are booked 3 to 6 months in advance. Must tell us all about your trip on your return especially about the eco-village.
I was referring to the Legends which is a golf course. What is the eco-village you’re going to?
G’day Terence,
Still in Sydney. Do you know there are many retirment villages in New South Wales alone. Many are in Sydney itself.
“There are about 700 retirement villages in NSW. Private, for-profit villages comprise about 15% but these are usually larger than not-for-profit villages. There are approximately 35,000 residents. The average age is 70-75 years and over 80% of residents are female; couples only comprise about 10 % of residents.
It is estimated that between 200 and 250 retirement villages offer “three-level care”. Yet, being a resident in such a village does not guarantee access to hostel or nursing home accommodation. ”
Whilst it is a way of life there, S’poreans don’t even have an option here. We’ll probably have to help ourselves.
Imagine if only we can find a RV built to eco-village ideals and located in lower cost countries around here. We can then afford to have our own cake and eat it too.
Dear All,
I am a new member, male, aged 60 yrs, still working fulltime, but can retire any time now. I am very encouraged to hear that in Thailand one can retire on S$500 per month. In June06, I spent 8 days in Shanghai and I agree that except for housing, one can live on S$500pm, because food and transport are much cheaper than Singapore. My friend operating Sentosa Inn in Hainan also informed me that one can live comfortably well off with S$1000pm including housing. I’m interested in 3 months short term living in Thailand, China, Malaysia, etc, for under S$1000pm.
One way to cut down on housing costs is to rent a house and share it among us, maybe 4 to 8 persons, with 1 or 2 to a room, depending on individual needs, but paying more if one takes a single room. This is reminiscent of Singapore in the 50’s and 60’s before the advent of large HDB estates.
On retirement village (RV) I would prefer those nearer home, such as in Malaysia, e.g. Johore or Malacca or Cameron Highlands )with its cool climate), which offer no language barrier and have similar culture to ours. Thailand is also good because of the extensive use of English, and the availability of modern facilities, including medical, at low costs.
Thank you all for sharing. Hope to go with some of you to these nearby places, such as Chonburi in Thailand, for which Vincent and Terence are experts.
Best regards…from…sigyam
I just read through all the commnets on RV and it is very interesting to hear the different points of view. I believe there are different requirements for different people. I personally is hoping that an RV will be developed in Singapore. To me, the best thing about living in RV is having people of the same age group to socialise with all the time. Also, the economy of scale for such basic services as maids and medical emergency services at your door step. Also, the RV management may be able to orgnanise group outings for its residents.
Hi Laurence,
You mentioned you are going to be busy setting up the Trang Eco-village in Thailand ? I hope you are still around in Singapore, and quite a number of us ,(Evelyn Tan for one is willing to let us meet at her house) would like to learn more about Eco-village. So before you leave, it will be great to get to know you and to learn first hand from a pioneer like you. And having known you, some of us will find it more attractive and welcoming to visit you in Trang in future, or even stay longer, if that is possible. So Laurence, can you do a little presentation this 25th Aug, maybe after the meeting for those who are interested ?
Hi Terence, Do you know here Laurence is now ? We all would very much like to hear about his preparation to settle down at Trang Eco Village. Thks
Hello fellow SHCs,
I read with great interest on the Retirement Village comments then suddenly as fast as the discussions had started than it’s quietened.What has happened to the RV now?
It maybe old news,nonetheless, it’s interesting infomation.
Also, short trips, Fri to Sunday, to neighbouring countries as a group should be nice too.
Train rides to Malaysia beyond Gemas is considered long trips and can book w/in a monthh with discount for senior citizens above ?60years of age.
Would the above be revived in the near future for further discussions? I have enjoyed reading the comments. Thanks. Keep it coming.
Geok Suan.New SHC