Join a team to prepare a feasibility paper on “Short-term Retirement homes outside Singapore for Seniors”

On this forum, there has been many discussions on the setting up of "Short-term retirement homes outside Singapore for Seniors".  So far, we have many ideas and suggestions; but we have not been able to put up a feasibility paper.

Perhaps, this is a good time to bring together SHC members who like the idea, are interested in promoting this idea, with the aim of setting up facilities and services and also investing in the project if feasible.

Assuming we take 4 months to prepare a draft paper, the team can bring these ideas together, consolidate the discussion and finally write out a paper that is viable and feasible, practically and financially sound.  All participating members must have roles in the team.

If you have interest to work in this team, please let me know, and we will organise physical meetings and offline discussions.  Please indicate the role you would like to participate.

If the team can put up a feasibility paper, we can use it as an investment paper.  If you have experience and would like to participate, join the team.  I will coordinate the team; but if there is someone with experience in a similar project, do let me know.  Closing date for the formation of this team: 30 Apr 2012.

Terence Seah 

115 thoughts on “Join a team to prepare a feasibility paper on “Short-term Retirement homes outside Singapore for Seniors”

  1. Hi Terrence

    Vincent Chan is interested to participate in the exploration of this subject. Please register him, he is a SHC member.

    Please allow me to add a slightly differently note, we are visiting Bandung on 9 May, walking/trekking at our own pace……anyone? We got the ticket S$89/- one way and intent to:
    1. Visit Tangkuban Perahu./Kampung Daun, Ciate Hote Spring, Kampung Daun, Lembang/mountain areas.
    2. Do Shiseido facial (Rp2000.000) meni/pedicure (Rp100.000) and shop
    3. Try guling guling and beef tendons at Café Bali (shared by Charles Chua) and visit Cisarua/Vila Air (shared by Frisna, I understand most hotels here are resort style…..quite ancient??) We are still looking for accommodation maybe Majestic or Grand Setiabudi
    Does anyone have good experience of local tour agency, Taxi/Driver with car, masseur, hair spa etc to share? Please email me at limfreda@gmail.com.

    Thank you,

  2. Hi Terence, i’m interested – but how, what and where to start??
    keep me posted of what needs to be done or what i can do, perhaps i can be “leg/hand” for the project? Do you need someone who is in the construction industry? Maybe James can help too. Cheers

  3. Hi Terrence,

    I have met you briefly a few times. I sensed that you are very concerned with retired senoirs who found living in Singapore expensive. The idea is to find an alternative “semi-permanent” abode where the cost of living is significantly low in order that the senoir can take advantage of the high value SGD. At the same time the location must be near enough to Sinagpore in case of illnesses that require major treatment.

    From my observation, there are very, very few SHC members who are that poor to find it necessary to re-locate. Thanks to whosoever ………. (celestial or terrestrial) No religion; no politics.

    Anyway, I would like to join your team for exploratory low-profile meetings.

    Wai Jin

  4. For the feasibility study on “Short-term Retirement homes outside Singapore for Seniors”, I am pleased to include Wai Jin, Inez and James Koh.

    Freda, as I am not familiar with Vincent Chan, please ask him to register on this Post personally.

    Thank you.

  5. Hi Terence

    Do include me in the prep process. I’ll be happy by researching relevant info.

    Cheers … and have a great weekend, wherever you may be right now 😀

  6. Hi, Terence,
    I am interested in Short-term Retirement homes outside Singapore for Seniors.
    Please give more advice in the outcome
    Regards
    Alan angchiqui

  7. Hi Alan #8,

    We are forming a team for members with an interest to set up a Short-term retirement program outside Singapore. The aim is to work out a feasibility paper which would attract interested members to come together, and set up the project.

    Why this need to form a team? Many seniors has expressed interest in living outside Singapore for short periods of 3 monnths. However, many also felt not enough work or study has been conducted to get the idea to work.

    This team is for members who are interested inn being part of this project, and may consider at some stage to be an investor or active participant in providing short term retirement facilities, outside Singapore.

    This is a working team, and team members play a key role in setting the direction, cost and concept.

    Do share your interest.

    Hi LenaW #7,

    Knowing your interest, you are welcome to the team.

    Terence Seah

  8. Hi Terence
    I am quite interested in the concept of retirement home outside Singapore. I may not be able to attend meetings physically but if I can be kept in the loop.
    Thanks and regards
    Joan

  9. Hi Joan,

    I like to welcome you to the team. Some of our meetings will be done via email. Keep in touch. You can be our light into Australia as a place for short term retirement.

    Terence Seah

  10. Hi Terence,

    Please keep me in the loop (without being in the feasibilty study team).

    I want to learn from the experts. Can’t contribute because I don’t know anything about all the exact places mentioned so far. Don’t wish to be a nuisance in the study team.

    Thank you.

    Geok Suan.

    Thank you.

  11. Terrence the man,
    I hope the interest from folks here is still alive.
    I am only keen to work with or facilitate a group/members with short term retreat interest, some funding and love traveling /resting in a farmstay, guesthouse type of outfit, where one can be close to nature, peaceful, good weather and refreshing environment to regain and restore health and strength, a bit of farming or horti stuff. I like to explore with a group interested in Yunnan or Hainan at this point. Idea of short term stay should be 2 weeks and no more than 2 months.
    What you need to do is identify who is prepared to name a destination; Indonesia, Kota Kinabalu, Chiangmai or Laos, Sri Lanka etc., I am not keen to waste time of feasibility studies and the outcome is again another “NATO” operation; no action talk only.

  12. Hi Alan Ang #8, and Joan Wong (Perth) #10.

    From your posts, my gut feeling is that you want to stay in the such places for long periods of one to three months.
    If my gut feeling is correct, are you looking “retreat” environment, or “low cost of living” considerations? No offence meant. It is necessary for data collection.

    Wai Jin

  13. Hi Feztus Lim #13.

    What make you choose Hainan? For the last few years, I and my wife have been to Hainan twice a year, every year. We choose go in either February or September, because weather is not too hot nor to cold in the northern part of Hainan. In the northern Hainan you have the four seasons. But in the Southern half (such as Sanya) it is nearly like Singapore (cool, when raining, hot when sunny)

    We are planing to go this coming September. If you can get a group of people to take up a premises for one year rental lease period, I will try to get one near the sea for RMB 20,000/25,000 per year (S$ 4,000/5,000)per year. You can count me as one party already. Got to work out how many weeks each party takes.

    Sorry Terrence, if this is out of the (box or subject).
    I view it as a “grey” area at the perimeter of the box.

    Wai Jin

  14. Wai Jin, glad to hear from you.
    I am happy to explore into it after we get few more folks who definitely interested to identify this place as their option for short term retreat and travel therapy. We need folks who are prepared to do more than just “being kept in the loop”. Hope they don’t get entangled.

  15. Hi Terence

    Will see how I can contribute in the discussion but mainly through email.

    Hi Wai Jin
    I reside both in Singapore and Perth. I believe that there are other members doing the same and in other 2 countries eg Singapore/Thailand/Philippines/Malaysia/Hong Kong etc. My interest in the post is on programmes or activities that members want to be involved in as those then make the stay possible and meaningful. 3 months can be quite long. An area that interests me is stays which are cultural, eco-tours or skills learning eg cooking.

    Joan

  16. Hi Joan #18,

    I guess you are referring to Perth. What is your concept like how long would be the period, what would be the range of cost you are targetting and what would your concept not cover?

    Would this be similar to a retirement home? Or would it be similar to a short holiday of a few weeks?

    Terence Seah

  17. For this project, I would like to take in participants who have a keen interest in a particular destination, has experience of the place and must be prepared to champion and lobby for the conncept and place.

    I am also keen to have team members with knowledge of seniors’ needs and requirements.

    Those who like to follow up on the discussion can follow this Post or can also respond directly to Festus, Joan or Wai Jin as they too have good ideas, experience and knowledge.

    Geok Suan, you may follow the discussions on this Post. Look forward to your conntributions.

    Terence Seah

  18. Hi All

    Hainan Island is a good place to consider for short term living. Things there are inexpensive. I have been there 7 to 8 times already and has plans to go in early november this year. We have arranged for a land tour to visit our ancestral home in Wen Chang for prayers and then to Sanya and several other places.

    It will be nice to live by the seaside for a couple of weeks, just lazing around on some days and try to find activities to participate in on others. Otherwise, live in the country side and learn to rear poultry or plant veggies. I watched my relatives do it and it seems quite fun for a couple of weeks. And I know its back breaking. Hmmm.. I wonder if I can still do it a few years down the road. Maybe the former option will be a better choice for me.

    For now, I will follow the post.

    Cheers
    Carly

  19. HI Terence,

    When is the prelim meeting? I would like to come. I am keen in retiring outside of Singapore. Thailand, Malaysia or Indonesia?

    Cheers, Lydia.

  20. Hi Barbara #22 Lydia #23, Kheng Lim #17,

    Please advise your contribution role to this team. I like to fit you to a role in the preparation of this paper.

    Terence Seah

  21. Hi guys!

    My retirement destination is Thailand… and maybe the other regional countries like Vietnam and Philippines.

    I wouldn’t mind attending any preliminary discussion or meeting but can contribute mainly on Thailand destinations like Chiang Mai and Phuket. I think there are a few other SHCs who have lived and worked in Thailand, and therefore cannot view my personal contribution as definitive.

    I am sure that there will be many contributors with as many different ideas and proposals; but I hope that this time around we can take a concrete step forward in our retirement living aspirations.

  22. Hi Kenneth,

    I like to welcome you to the team, especially to lead the Thailand home.

    By concrete step, what do you suggest the team should do?

    Terence Seah

  23. hi friends,

    i’m exploring retirement in chiang mai. Do include me in your prelim meetings. Am planning a trip there in may 2012 to collect data & get a 1st hand feel. Anyone interested to join me?

  24. Hi Terence,

    I was working as PM or TM role during my career in the IT industry.

    Although, I do travel to Asian countries & USA either for work assignment or leisure. The longest I had stayed was in Hanoi (3 months) but that was in the 1995. The country had since then developed much today.

    To be honest, I don’t mind participating in the feasibility study.

    If deemed feasible to be part of the team managing the operation or to invest within my mean.

  25. Hi Terence #19

    Yes, it’s Perth that I can talk about. I live there and S’pore about 3 mths each and hence Perth is a retirement home for my hubby and me. We have been doing so for 10 years. I’m not sure if this is what you consider concept but what made us choose Perth was that we wanted to experience a place with a cooler climate,near to S’pore and cheaper cost of living. We actually found these in Perth – the best seasons are spring and autumn. Housing and car are relatively cheap, flight time is 5 hrs or so and you can find good Asian food if you miss it or if you are not a great cook.Just to share a few points.

    Your retirement nest egg is most important as you need to have sufficient funds to cover the period of stay overseas. The interest rates for term deposits are quite good so that you can live on the interest even. Important thing is that your finance planning must take into account your lifestyle and differs person to person.

    Next is accomodation. You can buy an investment home which we did or rent short term eg 1 month or rent a house long term. It’s good if 2 families can share out the rental home as this cuts cost and they can take turns to live in it and not leave it empty.

    Transport is the 3rd aspect. In Perth you will need a car unless you live in the city where you can walk or take CAT buses free etc. It’s cheaper in the long run than renting and you can do self-drive holidays around WA. WA is so vast that there’s plenty to sightsee.

    We found that homecooked meals are the best and cost less than eating out alone, though eating out in a big group of 5 or more is cheaper than in S’pore.

    Lastly, it’s good if one is a bit of a handyman around the place. Retiring abroad enables one to have many activities eg collecting/making/selling things besides other pastimes to fill the week eg fishing, cooking, craft, gardening,etc and even voluntary work.

    Some ask about work or residence. For a visitor staying maximum 3 mths, you cannot seek employment unless you are granted a temporary resident visa where you may be allowed to work a certain no. of hours/week though jobs are not that plentiful. With regards to qualifying for residence, you need to check on this at the High Commission.

    Joan

  26. Hi Joan #28 and Terence

    I am interested in short stays-one or two months- in a country with four seasons and clean environment. Perth would be a good place. I am not new to Austrlia as I had lived in Sydney a couple of years during school days.
    If we can share the cost of purchasing a property in Perth we can spend the time there by rotation.
    You probably are in a position to explore this idea furhter.

  27. Hi Joan,

    Re Robert’s suggestion, are you able to guide us through. You know Perth well enough, and I think Robert’s idea may work for a number of retirees.

    Hi Robert,
    The Australian tourist visa is easily available for 12 months, with each stay no longer than 3 months. So, anything up to 3 months per stay would be idea. I guess for this idea to work, we should hear interest from members.

    Terence Seah

  28. Hi everyone. It is heartwarming to read so many post on this subject, because reading through some of the archives, this idea was mooted and died a natural death 🙁

    I agree with Feztus that we should not be trapped in the NATO situation. First and foremost, investing in retirement homes are not cheap and entail risks. It would be best for interested members to think through how they wish to participate in this. There will be some who are willing to put in money to get things moving, while there will be others, for whatever reasons, may just want to “pay per use”. These two categories of members are important as this will determine the sustainability of the projects launched.

    For those willing to part with some money help to realize this dream, they will need to look at the cashflow and be realistic about how much to sink in. Everyone has his limitation and consideration.

    I personally foresee that there will be a potpourri of arrangement that will evolve. This could involve securing a time share property in Perth, third party arrangement like rental of premises in Hainan or even joint venture with some farmers (??) in our neighbouring countries for some “health” and ” back to the past” experiences.

    Personally, I belief that we should strike when the iron is hot and move quickly. Perhaps Terence may want to initiate a simple exploratory questionniares for interested parties to facilitate discussion when we meet.

    James Koh

  29. Hi Terence

    I am a “cheap” tourist and therefore would be a “cheap” retirement living exponent. I do not believe that retiring in Perth or some other Aussie destination would be my cup of tea. This is the preserve of those with lots of dough to spare: first on airfares, then on housing and transport, then on costs of longer-term living and medical. Of course, those who plan to emigrate have other priorities and objectives.

    Terence, you asked about concrete steps: I think we have to establish the parameters of the paper; there must be some assumptions made on the objectives: place and period, investment or expenditure, how we should approach the study.

    First, I can see that there will be many differing opinions and preferences for places from Hainan to Perth and maybe even further.

    Second, there will be few who want to commit to living more than a few weeks overseas, and in a fixed place. Many want to experience different places and for a couple of weeks at most.

    Third, what info should we gather and report on? We can do detailed country reports which take into account political and social, location and weather studies, retirement incentives offered by the country, medical facilities, anything useful for long-term stays.

    But to what end? Can we get a show of hands to how many would participate in retirement living overseas?

  30. I personally feel that those who wants to lead short term retirement programs overseas must take the lead. We cannot just suggest and let somebody else doing the leading for you.

    Many like the idea but finally, the retiree just cannot go go ahead with the idea. I think it is not fair to say that this is NATO. Everybody has their own considerations. However, if you are interested, speak up and let us know your interests. After following up all the discussion, over the years, I feel that the two important questions are:

    1. It all boils down to cost. Unfortunately, this is one driving question.. How much is the individual prepared to spend on retirement living overseas, for accommodation, food and transport and day to day expenses?
    $1000, $1500, $2000, $2500 or $3000? My thinking on this is what would it cost to say in a retirement home in Singapore. If it costs $2500 per month, then the cost of staying overseas should not be more than $2500, or else there will be no incentive. Let’s take perhaps an example of $1500 or $2000 per month.

    2. The second question is how does a retiree fund the overseas stay? From renting the flat, from savings, from part-time work while overseas?

    Previous suggestions of timeshare were raised; but nobody takes the lead, especially those who have the knowledge of the place, etc.

    If the above two questions can be answered, the rest are details.

    So, what does it cost to enter a retirement home in Singapore?

    Terence Seah

  31. Hi Robert #30,

    You have raised a good question. I am not an expert on short term retirement in Perth, Although I have been here many times in the last 3 years. I have also explored retirement homes here in Perth.

    One thing sure for retirees is we can easily get a 3month stay on a one year visa. The other good point is foreigners can buy a new piece of land and can build their own house. Let’s say the house is AUD$ 500,000. And assuming it has 3 bedrooms. Not that it is this simple; but assuming 6 persons can stay here for 3 months a year, this works out to AUD$85,000 per person as investment.

    Now, to the test question. Raise your hands. Who is prepared to fork out AUD 85,000 as investment for a retirement house in Perth. We can have fellow SHC experts to advise on trasnferability.

    Joan, feel free to contribute.

    Terence Seah

  32. Hi Robert #30
    Glad to hear from you.
    Hi Terence #31, 34, 35
    Hope my comments below will help in some way.

    Buying a piece of land and building a new house will take at least 1 year or longer to complete nowadays. That is the condition for visitors re: buying a house, it has to be a new house. Unless you choose an expensive suburb, it is possible to own a 4 BR x 2bathroom and dble garage house for AUD 500K.

    As mentioned, it’s good to share as 1 family stays only maximum 3 mths.I know families who share with their married children and take turns to holiday there. Also maybe relatives or friends. This cuts cost as there are rates to pay etc. Re: rules of foreign ownership, you need to speak to property agents and the FIRB who can advise on this matter.

    If you can retain your S’pore property, then the rental you get will help. If you are thinking of work, perhaps working part time in S’pore is a better idea than overseas.

    Another way is where you have a sum of money to place in fixed/term deposit to earn interest. You can check the rates given by the various Australian banks.

    Re: airfares. Travel during low season or by budget airlines helps.

    Finally, no parking fees at suburbs, good asian food, 2nd hand cars below AUD 10K even.

    Joan

  33. Dear All,

    This subject is getting interesting. Initially to my mind “Short Term Retirement Homes” means staying there for two years and more, because that will be my home, and I retire there. When I feel that I am about to pass over to another life, I will then return to Singapore.
    My idea is that if I choose to do this, I must financially benefit from it. Homes and food are expensive in Singapore.
    If I let out my Sinagpore home and receive the rent in SGD,
    and in return pay rent in Indonesian Rupiah, Thai bahts, or Malaysia Ringgits, I have a financial advantage.

    Practically all posts above are saying, keep your Singapore home, and stay away in your retirement home for 3 to 6 months a year. If you are financially very sound it is O.K.
    To keep 2 homes it is definitely to cost you more.

    I like to share with you my past experience on holiday homes:

    Two decades ago I owned an apartment at Genting View Resort (two thirds way up Genting Hill) in Malaysia. Nice weather, 14 deg cel on cold days; 22 deg cel hot days. The developer
    rented from all the purchasers (paying 6% of purchased price of MR 105,000, and 2 weeks free owner stay). Can’t find a better deal.

    After 6 years, developer developed another phase, and stopped renting from us. I then made it as my holiday home, staying 2 months in a year. I find it still expensive to keep 2 homes.
    I approcahed several companies to rent from me for their staff holidays at cheap rental. Idea seems very workable, but the devil is in the details.

    When one family check out of the partment, who is going to do the clean up? What makes you so sure that if the no family is staying there tonight, there is no one who has a duplicate key to gain entry and make use if it? To think of it there is a host of problems like maintenance, broken or missing cockery, etc.

    Apologies if you find it too long and boring.
    Wai Jin

  34. Hi Wai Jin #37, and those interested in the topic of retiring overseas for short periods of 3 months.

    If I read you correctly, you are also saying “Keep the Singapore house or apartment. Then rent it out. With the rent, one can actually benefit financially and yet be able to enjoy one’s 3 months overseas”.

    To me, this sounds fine and workable, if one can rent the place out. I think we can consider this as one option, for the team to discuss further.

    For those who cannot rent the place out because the children are living in the house/apartment, this option may not be workable. So the retiree has to go for other options. Well, this has to be savings; and this option is the most difficult to accept because this is life savings. Early discussions on investing in a retirement home failed because retirees cannot risk taking this route. Yes, the retiree has the savings but may be afraid what happens if he/she lives another 20 years.

    Anybody has thoughts on this dilemma?

    Terence Seah

  35. Hi Terence #35, Joan

    I think owning a house in Perth to cost AUD$85000 per person is beyond what most members will bear, unless we plan to treat it as an investment. But I understand that Australian properties do not appreciate much in value.
    We can explore the visibily of long term lease. Perhaps Joan
    can give us a cost estimate.
    If Perth is too expensive, we can look at other possibilities.

  36. Hi Terence

    I totally agree with you… but there really has been no pogress from where and when we started.

    Yes, we must have a prime mover, someone who will take the plunge and come up and say “Hey! I’ve got this idea for a retirement destination and it will cost S$xxxxx and I need five or ten guys to join me. We will either lease or buy the house or apartment and take four weeks each, rent out the other weeks… ”

    You have an apartment in Bangkok and maybe we can start that ball rolling: What about leasing it out for three months, get three guys to take a month each.

    What I am saying is that we need a commitment. And that we should involve as many as possible. It is not good just to plug a place and then try to get someone to decide and join.

    And we need to start somewhere; small steps like spending two weeks in that place, exploring leases or rental for longer-term stay, getting to know and be comfortable with the country, etc.

    Only when we get to that stage can we then decide if we would want to live out a bigger part of our lives away from Singapore.

    I would say that there are many people who have made that decision. When I collected my passport recently, the immigration officer asked if I had another “citizenship”. I retorted and asked if that was legal in Singapore. He just smiled.

  37. Hi Robert #39, Kenneth,

    Based on previous discussions, there has been almost no response to the option of putting up money to invest in an overseas retirement home. There are reasons of course. This probably explains why reverse mortage is a difficult option, even as suggested by the government. There may be some, but I think the numbers are small. But, let’s use this as one option for the team to work on. We should not rule it out as yet.

    I shall dig out past discussion, and one centred around long term lease or rental. This was a possible option. The team can use this as one option. For Australia, I guess we have Joan to offer her contributions, for Indonesia, we have Abel to contribute, for Yunnan, we have Fetzus to take his lead on this destination, for Thailand, we can have myself and kenneth, and for Malaysia, we have Wai Jin to take the lead. Let’s see if the leaders can guide us through.

    Terence Seah

  38. Hi Terrence, #38

    You read me half correct. I am talking about two years stay as a retirement home — not a three months stay as a holiday retreat It is not practical to rent out your flat for only three months.

    If you have family members staying in your flat, you can’t rent it out of course. In life most people can’t afford to have their bread buttered on one side and jam on the other. Hahaha.

    Wai Jin

  39. Hi Wai Jin #42,

    Yes, I have read you half correct. And you are right. Fact is it is difficult to rent out the house/apartment fully or partially for a short period. Nnt many retirees have the luxury to rent out their place, as they have to stay somewhere too, in the meantime. But for some, this is ann option. So we keep this as one option for some.

    We take another option which is down grade and find something smaller. Is this viable? I guess for some, from media reports, some Sinngaporeanns have accepted the HDB’s offer, and benefit from a bonnus payout. For some, this is one option to fund a short term retirement outside, whether in Australia, Indonesia, China, Thailand or nearby Malaysia.

    So Downgrade may be one option for some Singaporeans.

    Terence Seah

  40. Hi Terrence #43

    Agreed. Most Singaporeans has at least his/her HDB flat which is a substantial asset (in terms of money). In this situation he/she has many options. Overseas properties, stock and shares, Insurances,etc.

    Life itself is a risk. It is how one manages that risk. Ultimately, if heaven or luck does not favour one, then he/she is doomed, no matter how he/she managed.
    No religion; No politics.

    Wai Jin

  41. Remember: The new rules on housing ownership in Singapore: You cannot own an HDB and also buy another property without disposing of it (HDB) within six months of the property transfer.

    You could possibly rent your HDB and live in another country, using the rental income to pay for your overseas rental.

    Yes, retirement living should ultimately be more than three-month period. It should not be like another vacation, sight-seeing like a tourist, golfing every morning… I think you should be prepared to live like the local, integrate with the adopted place. And there must be an advantage like cheaper living costs, more relaxed lifestyle or escape from crowded city living.

  42. We are getting a lot of comments here. There are those who are genuinely keen to take the plunge to work on the program. However, there are some who are at the periphery, watching the game play.

    I would suggest that for those would have been ambivalent about this retirement home/ resort/ rejuvenation etc,to state specifically their interest. This would provide some level of confidence to the initiators to move faster.

    I think details are best sorted out when things become clearer.

  43. Hi James Koh # 47

    I agree with your suggstion.

    (1) This group would like to stay in a place for 1 to 3 months (if at normal hotel rates it will be a big ticket item). To cut down cost, group shares together to lease a property for periods of 1 or 2 years. My suggestion is not to buy the property on a group basis, because if one member pass on from this earth to another life, there will be inheritance problems.
    This is an enjoyment and money spending activity.

    (2) This group wolud like to generate income and savings
    for thier old age (20/30 years down the road). Intends to lease out their house/flats in S’pore to get SGD, and in return rent house/flats in countries where rent is cheap and cost of living is low.
    This is a revenue earning project, and entails sacrifice.

    If one may indicate his/her objective as (1) or (2) above, it will be easier for the initiators in their brainstorming session.

    Wai Jin

  44. Hi Wai Jin @ #37,

    Was it only M$105k, Genting View? How many bed rooms?

    If you still have it, you can structure something to fit this post.

    There are some advantages besides the nice weather, not too far from KL, not too far from Sgp, familiarity for Sgpns, still have English as communication, no wifi tho’, but can easily fix that with a prepaid card, don’t need to rent a car, can use the same Sgp car etc.

    Also I think the condo has staff who can clean and change new bedsheets, for a fee, so everything is fresh and clean for the new renters.

  45. Hi Charles Chua #49.

    M$105,000 was 20 years ago (one bedroom, one toilet, one kitchen, one hall, and one balcony). I sold it about 10 years ago at slightly higher price ,but will make a loss on foreign exchange. I kept the money in Malaysia, and later bought Public Bank(foreign) and Hong Leong Bank. The share prices have risen 3 to 4 times, and with stirling dividends, no complaints. I still have those shares.

    As I said in #48, not to buy on group basis because of inheritance problems later.

    Regarding cleaning and change of bedsheets by the condo staff, you take the risk to trust them with the door keys?
    When I was there, they were poorly paid.

    If you are interested, I think you can get a 2-bedroom for
    M$ 250,000 (new rule says Foreigners can only buy properties
    costing M$ 250,000 and above)

    Wai Jin

  46. Hi Wai Jin,

    Thanks for your reply.

    Yes, very good share, Public Bk. Together with Genting I think they are the 2 best performing shares in Malaysia for the last 40+ years. Not so sure about HLB tho’.

    About the 2 bedder, thanks but no, thanks again. Malaysia is the next Greece. I only like their food.

    I recently read that some buyers in JB still do not have the titles transferred even when they are fully paid for 18 mos. Meanwhile the State is changing the regulation to increase the duties for land transfers. Ie those who paid 18 mos ago will have to pay the new duties (increased) as the titles are not transferred yet, due to no fault of theirs. C’est la vie.

  47. Hi Terence, I’m interested to be part of the team to ‘shape’ the future homes for the elderly/SHC members.

    If it’s in indonesia, i can help more by negotiating the price, looking for developers, suitable site etc (and to make sure the deal is legitimate).

    With less than 3 hours direct flights I think Bandung (west java hill resorts) and Bali (Ubud or newly developed coastal/farm areas)are most suitable. of course Batam and Bintan can be considered.

    As there’re several locations mentioned on this thread i think for a start just concentrate on 1 location as a pilot project (i like chiangmai or thailand in general due to low cost of living though communication might be a problem but we can always learn new language to sharpen our mind!
    I like perth/australia too as it’s well developed and modern)

    I’ll contribute whatever i can (except $$$ which i don’t have much) if required to make this project running. yes a feasibility study is surely needed.

  48. Hi guys!

    I think this post’s subject is shaping up well; there are quite a few proposals and ideas which can be followed up.

    I just learnt that a cousin in Melbourne has just sold her house and moved into a retirement village. This concept is well developed in Oz and caters to those above 55, providing a safe, conducive environment with sports or golf facilities, transport, medical and emergency services.

    These “villages” if commercially run can be expensive; she’s in a small 100+ unit development which is operated as a co-operative. This has the advantage of ownership, lower costs, as well as possiblilty of selling your interest.

    Maybe setting up a co-operative could be a way for SHC in our retirement home project?

  49. Hi Terence

    I would like to join this forum. I reside in Melbourne now and visit/go back to Singapore yearly. I may be able to assist with items on Melbourne/suburb Victoria.

    There is a suggestion on retirement village in Australia. Bear in mind that this is not open to anyone especially when you are not a local and a member of the cooperative.

    Audrey

  50. Hi Kenneth #53,

    Let’s put a cooperative as one of the options towards a retirement place. Ken, can you describe how you see this cooperative will work. This way, we can be more precise in our thoughts when we discuss how a cooperative works, when it comes to a retirement place overseas.

    Hi Audrey #54,
    Even though you are in Melbourne, I like to welcome you to the team. One question which I have for you is how do the Australians fund their stay in a retirement village.

    Terence Seah

  51. Hi Frisna #52,

    I like to focus on cost, because it is one of the decision factors when it comes to a short term retirement location overseas. Please share your thoughts as to how your concept works.

    Indonesia is a relative low cost place for short term retirement; and since you have knowledge on Indonesia, I too like to welcome you to the team.

    Terence Seah

  52. Hi Terence and all

    These are some things to consider for Perth: firstly only 3 months visa granted to visitors, hence those thinking of 2 year retirement stay will need to apply for long term residence. That is why we only mentioned 3 mth stay. Also travel insurance gives up to 90 days.

    If it’s not buying a property, then perhaps short stays at homestays/hotels offering monthly stays. Some homestays may have an adjoining “granny flat” or self-contained hotel units that have cooking facilities These may work out to AUD 1-1.5K per month. Not buying also allows mobility – staying in the city and in various country towns where self-contained units can be rented at reasonable prices for a group of 5 -10 people. In this way you get to see places and do different things.

    As mentioned by Kenneth #53, there are retirement/lifestyle villages for 55+ but I’m not sure of the terms and conditions and if visitors are eligible to rent/buy. Setting up a co-operative sounds good too but not sure how that works.

  53. When considering staying overseas to enjoy our retirement, Cost is an important factor, I shall make a start, and I hope that those who has a place overseas open their place for short term retirement overseas.

    Not everybody wants to stay in Bangkok; but many people do, because Bangkok is a gateway to the rest of Thailand. This project should not cover tourist stay, as one can DIY accommodation and travel.

    I have a 65 square metre apartment in Bangkok with kitchen Let’s say I open it for short term retirement stay. And let’s say I shall price the stay SGD 50 per day. The place can accommodate 2 or 4 people, and the group must stay 3 months. The group buys their own food, cook their own, and clean the place. Pay for own electricity and water.

    Divide by 4 people, this works out to $12.50 per pax per day or $375 per month. All amenities are nearby.

    And you get to move around and see Thailand.

    No obligation. I just like to hear your feedback. And I hope more people will join in.

    As you can see, in the city of Bangkok, accommodation can be $1500 for 4 pax per month, and with Joan’s example, it is AUD1,000 to AUD1,500 per month or SGD 1,300 per month. This shows that total accomodation costs can be cost effective, if there is numbers (more people) participating in the short term retirement place. Four per group is also excellent when it comes to driving ie 4 to a car.
    Imagine with a big place like 8 to a house, the costs can be even more friendlier.

    Terence Seah

  54. Thanks Danniel for the info. I also like to invite you to join the feasibility team. You have a lot of knowledge on JB. Please keep update.

    This time, I hope we can set up a workable project that can be take up by shcians and other seniors in Singapore.

    The Iskandar project is a huge project, annd beinng so close to Singapore, we should see it as a viable option to retirement in Sinngapore.

    Personally, I see Cost is the number factor in the 3mth Short term retirement consideration. Many of us may not say so, but it is reality and fact.

    Although there are other factors, eg hospitals, market, food, security and nearness to home, I see friends as the 2nd most important factor when livinng overseas. No matter how attractive a retirement place is, no one would enter a retiremennt home alone or just with spouse. This is why we should do so as a group. The SilverHairsClub is one place where members can team up together annnd enjoy retirement together,n once the call is near. Wouldn’t it be nice to enter a retirement as a group of 8 members, all knowing one another?

    Daniel, I am glad to hear from you.

    Terence Seah

  55. Currently, I have two places for the committee consideration as follows and whenever there is cheapfare I will alway spent up to 15 days per visit to hainan :-

    a)Farmstay in Hainan at Ngee-Kim House(Total of 9 rooms with attached toilet each) Maximum 18 person at any time stay.
    b)Condo stay in Hainan with Swimming Pool – Maximum 4 person stay at any time.

    These 2 places are accessible by Fast Rail from Meilan airport at a)Boao Station,upon arrival hail a tricyle ride to village or Taxis b)Qionghai Station, upon arrival take public transport no. 7 and a 5 mins short distance walk from main road to Condo. Alternatively the committee may view it on my website:- Hainan-farmstay.com

    David Yap

  56. Terence:

    You have taken the first giant step to lease out your Bangkok apartment. Now let’s see how many SHCs will take up your offer.

    I’m afraid I am not familiar with co-operatives other than knowing that they are set up like corporations except with a community ownership and may be non-profit. The co-op retirement village in Australia could be a few investors who develop a senior housing project to meet their personal needs and open it to other like-minded people to buy and stay there. Unlike the commercial retirement villages where the owners only lease the units, the co-op has an ownership element where the buyer can sell or bequeath his/her unit.

    I was thinking of this co-op idea to also avoid the difficulty of ownership issues like when someone wanting to withdraw, death or tax considerations.

    The co-op movement in Singapore was largely concentrated in the trade unions: Fairprice, Comfort and Income were all co-ops before becoming large and commercial in nature.

    I think we need some expertise on forming and registering a co-op in Singapore, taking into account the new laws and regulations on companies and non-profit oraganisations. Can we get some opinions from our accountants and lawyers?

  57. Hi David #61,

    Thank you for your contribution. I am sure your experience at Hainan will be of great value to interested members.

    Can I ask you for an indication of costs per month? While cost is dependent on a number factors, it is one of the most important considerations when making a decision. Please keep joining in the discussion.

    Terence Seah

  58. Hi JamesK,

    While we are on the cost factor, I would like to ask you to lead and coordinate a series of questions and multiple choice answers. The aim is to identify how much a senior is willing to pay for a month stay in an overseas destination for short term retirement living. Including all necessary factors related to costs. Perhaps, including how to fund the retirement living. Let’s do the cost first.

    This will help us set up this important parameter “Cost”.

    Terence Seah

  59. Hi David #61.

    I and wife shall be at Tianfuyuan Hot Spring Resort (Guangtang, Qionghai) to try the “fish therapy” in mid September. Is Ngee-Kim House in Qionghai or Boao? What is the charge per day at Ngee-Kim House? Can I get proper “fish therapy” near by?

    Wai Jin

  60. Hi Richard Mak @ #27

    Would like to join you to Chiang Mai. Have not met you before. Hope to meet you in person before deciding. This execise will end on 30th April. Hope to meet you after 30th April (Reason: to see what crops up between 20th to 30th April).

    Wai Jin

  61. Hi Wai Jin#66.

    Currently, I am in Hainan till 23 April. Ngee-Kim house is in Chong Yuan near Boao station. Charge per room/day is RMB 180 with 2 beds in each room. Each room comes with attached toilet and coffee corner and shared balcony. Recreation like Majong table and table-tennis game are available for use within the main living Hall. Presently, the caretaker is my cousin and his wife is a good cook which could take care of your daily meals. Cost of meals is not inclusive.

  62. Hi Terence,

    Thank you for the “honour”.
    Actually, having viewed the great contribution from members, we are not looking at a narrow view of “retirement home”, which gives the connotation of some end-time life journey. From the vigorous comments, it looks more like a “ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE” :-). Full of vitality and energy!
    Here we are hearing members seeking out ways where we can look forward to more meaningful lifestyle,where we can age graciously and enjoy the best part of our lives.

  63. Hi Terence,
    Re yr #58 1st para. I do have a 3 bedroom townhouse available for rent on S/T basis (6mths ~ 1 yr). It is situated in a secured strata premise and located 200m from Waterford Plaza. For those of you who are not familiar with Perth, it is 20 mins drive to town, 15 mins to Burswood Casino, 25mins to the Airport, 10 mins to the golf course and a few minutes walk to the supermarket, food cafes and Curtin university. This house has air-con/heater, covered car park and a rear and side garden for outdoor activites. It is suitable for those seeking a peaceful lifestyle.
    The present tenant has been there since Aug 2010 and the next review for extesion of tenancy is on 30 June. The typical rent for this kind of townhouse in this locality is A$400 per week. The other monthly expense for the tenants are : utilities $100, phone n ADSL $83, Gas and Water A$50.
    I am not sure if this category of housing is suitable for discussion here . If not, pls treat the a/m as one for info only.
    HC

  64. Hi guys!

    Now there are three of you wanting to go to Chiang Mai. And you should do it before May 21st… ??? Why? Because after that date the direct flight by AirAsia ceases to operate. And you will have to take either SilkAir (the only other direct flight) or Thai Airways and AirAsia which transits Bangkok.

    Would you be exploring retirement options whilst in Chiang Mai? Well, Richard has put his intentions down to getting first-hand experience and collecting data. I hope this will develop into something viable.

    If you have time, look at the new condos being built in the trendy Nimmanhaemin area just northwest of the old City. You may get a new studio or two-room for around Baht 4-5 million. This will be ideal for a shared ownership venture: Four or five persons investing S$10,000, each taking five weeks of the year and renting out the remaining weeks.

    If any of you guys want to have any info on this or travel in CM, I would be happy to share what I have.

  65. Whoops!

    In my haste I made a mistake in the conversion of Thai baht. It should be around S$40 to Baht1,000. That condo apartment should not cost more than Baht2.5 million.

  66. Hi Terence, HC Lee

    Please seriously consider HC Lee’s (#70) offer of a three bedroom townhouse in Perth. It can accommodate easily 6 persons on twin-sharing basis.
    Based on his costs on rent, utilities and others, it works out to be about A$350 per pax per month.
    It looks quite affordable.
    What do you think.

  67. Hi Hou Chong #70,

    Your place in Perth is also a good start and idea for 3 months retirement stay outside Singapore. Robert Ong has worked this out to about AUD 350 or SGD 455 per pax per month.

    After reading comments and support for short term retirement ideas from you, Wai Jin, Kenneth, James, DanielK and Joan, I am pretty receptive to allowing advertising for short term stays from SHCians who have rooms, houses or apartments or even land overseas and willing to be part of the starter program for 3 months short term retirement outside Singapore. We could have a space on the left column titled “Short term retirement stays”. Suggestions welcome.

    And, maybe maybe, we can plan an exploratory trip to Perth during the coming winter. oooooh! it’s cold.

    Terence Seah

  68. As we read through all the comments re short term retirement stays outside Singapore, we are getting a feel of what it will cost to stay overseas.

    For everybody’s information, James Koh has started work on a survey to gather information from members on this short term retirement stay eg location, affordability, preference and requirements. For those who are interested in this project, please do share what kind of information you will need to know or like to know, so that James may be able to include them in the survey. Thanks James. Let’s give ourselves one week, until next Sunday, before we close the survey Q&A.

    Terence Seah

  69. I would like to caution everyone about providing estimates for leasing or purchase, because I believe there are incidental costs involved which are not factored in, such as utilities, on site coordination especially when we talk about leasing one year and members booking on two week basis.
    I would rather we work out the realistic number before giving out information which might lead to misinterpretation.

    James

  70. Hi Kenneth @ #72.

    I intend to go there (C.M.)for holidays. Had been there years ago. When I saw Richard Mak’s post #27, thought of following him. I will go with wife. I may join in if it is a lease, but not purchase (reasons previously given already).

    Wai Jin

  71. Hi Terence @ #75.
    I admired your unwavering commitment to SHC. Yes, it will be great to allow SHC members to advertise their overseas properties for retirement short stays. Thinking aloud, all agreements and terms and conditions must be strictly between the landlord and the the tenants (jointly or severally) SHC should not get involved in the arrangements and agreements. As I said before, the devil is always in the details.

    Take a hypothetical case. Landlord wants at least a 3-month lease. Therefore, there must be three groups (each group consists of 6 pax to keep cost low). Each group takes up one month’s stay. Assuming landlord wants 20% upon confirmation. If for any reason, any one of these three groups, when the time comes, has two pax unable to join. What happens? SHC must have a disclaimer on such issues and not get involved.

    Wai Jin

  72. I read with interest the comments made regarding the proposed feasibility study paper for “Short-term Retirement homes outside Singapore for Seniors”. My brief input is:
    I am already involved as a shareholder in a substantial Retirement Resort project in Selangor, Malaysia. The resort is purpose-designed for needs of retirees, whether active or for those that need assisted living with amenities for house-keeping and nursing. Apartments, facilities and scheduled activities are all senior-ready and senior-inclined with supporting facilities for young visitors. The ambience is, Resort for long or short term stay.

    If the feasibility team, after it has been assembled, is interested to know more I can assist in arranging for a discussion or presentation.

    My intent is not to hijack SHC’s idea and focus the attention to a single project. From comments made in the forum I can see that the idea of ‘off-shore retirement homes’ is gestating and will take some time before the team can take all the opinions of location, costs, facilities, activities, security, legal inheritance etc to crystallize into actionable items.

    If the new team for this study group wants to leap frog the gestating process and will not mind listening to someone who has already substantially crystallized all these ideas into design of buildings and recreational facilities and the infrastructure to provide for the fastidious needs of well-heeled active senior couples, singles, fully active or mobility compromised individuals.

    There will be no obligations for SHC to take it beyond the discussion or presentaion.

    LAS

  73. Hi Ah Sze #80,

    The team will keep working, with contributions from members. And, yes, it will take time, although every retiree has his/her own plans and idea.

    Why dont you take us through? The forum is the best place to hear you.

    Terence Seah

  74. Yes, Ah Sze@80

    Please feel free to conduct a discussion and presentation on your Retirement Resort in Malaysia. i am sure there will be many who will be very interested in this concept. When can this happen?

  75. Hi Ah Sze @ #80.and Terence.

    I would like to see the advertisement (if any) of your said project, or intended advertisment. Of course, first, you have to get Terence’s (Chief of SHC) permission for the free advertisement.

    Wai Jin

  76. Hi Wai Jin #83, in principle, in terms of short term retirement locations, especially those own by members, I have been thinking of a permanent space on the left column. This is similar to the Video jockey space on the left. When clicked on it, this will lead to a page with pictures, URL links and contacts of the members owning and providing 3 months short term stays. Perhaps, I would introduce a charge of $20 per year for all interested advertisers.

    We can start. I am looking for someone to manage this advertising space.

    Terence Seah

  77. #56 Terence, will give you estimation of cost to rent bungalow/villa when back from Indonesia early may.
    If the stay can only be 2-3 moths due to visa requirement etc i guess several locations will be good for member to hop around the globe when retired.
    My ideal place will be some where tranquil, can do some gardeni
    ng rear chicks etc. Cooperative style in buying bulk can work here.

    Rental in Indonesia normally is not done by week or month but yearly . Once we secure the place then booking can be done via SHC website

  78. #83 Hi Wai Jin. I do have the website for the retirement resort. So as not to infringe any rules you or anyone can send me an email cybronlas@gmail.com and I will oblige with website address.

    #82 Hi Kenneth. I will think a good time for a discussion will be after the ‘Team’ is formed on 30th April. any day on first half of May is okay for now.

    #81 Hi Terence, a web discussion for what I have, in my opinion, will be too much information and too confusing.

  79. Hi Ah Sze @ #86.
    Looks like I shall be in this Committee. If so, it will not be very proper for me to get your website address via your email (presumably with the advert of your retirement resort). Because then, I will have prior knowledge of your resort before other potential committee members. And should your resort and terms turns out to be the best and most affordable, I will find myself in a very difficult position to advocate for your cause.

    Why not get Terence’s permission to include the website for the resort and advertisement here for all to read and know. From the advertisement one can more or less guage the location, facilities, cost, and etc.

    Some may even book a place in your resort straight away.

    I wish you best success in your endeavours.

    Wai Jin

  80. #87 Hi Wai Jin and Terence,

    Thank you for the encouraging words from Wai Jin. I have no issue on naming this site but I do respect Terence’s opinion on this.

    For your information only two SHC club members have already requested the address via email.

  81. This is NOT going to happen!

    I mean, just look at the response to short-term living topics in the older posts: Nada, NATO, good-as-dead!

    But I am not disheartened; there are still pockets of interest and Terence has brought it up to the next level. And James is heading another project to look at shorter-term stays and try to get more members involved and committed.

    But, let’s face it: Singaporeans are just too happy and contented where they are… in Singapore. And who can blame them? It is really almost the best place to be in the world, and more so if you’re a Singaporean.

    So you have security, safety, good facilities and medical care, a good (discounting the breakdowns) transport system, decent housing, multiple choices of entertainment (although expensive), family and friends, a government you know well, schools and education possibilities, and you can gorge on cheap local fare like char koay teow or indulge at two-star Michelin restaurants.

    And travel to every country in the world is open to us Singaporeans. No visas even to the USA, China, SEA; cheap flights on budget airlines or bargain travel packages bought at crowded travel fairs. Is there a new destination where few Singaporeans have been? It would soon be overbooked!

    We are fortunate in not having to really stretch our dollar, struggle with daily living, face food shortages, political upheavals, even natural disasters. So there is no pressing motivation to look for another “place”.

    We are not political or economic refugees. We do not need to go south for the winter. We do not have to spend out our lives in a cheaper country to survive on our meagre savings or pension.

    So let’s just carry on our sweet lives, meet each other at SHC events, exchange a few niceties, talk stocks and a little politics, gossip about the latest scandal… and maybe spend a weekend or two weeks at our next dream destination if the mood strikes us.

  82. I do wish more members would share their opinion, positive or otherwise, on the issue of “3 months short term retirement overseas”.

    Kenneth, I was with a friend over lunch today, and I shared with him your views that Singaporean retirees are happy and contented where they are, and will not consider retiring overseas. Then I also shared with him about all the positive points on security, facilities and medical care, good food, etc. Able to travel to any country, strong dollar, stability, and no pressing issues.

    My friend, a Singapore, listened carefully, smiled and though I did not mention your name, he said. This guy must be rich, well to do and have no worries about retirement. He has all he wants. His view is one opinion; and I respect that.

    Like many of us, we are in the baby boomers age group. I tend to believe what I have read in media that this baby boomers group is large and will probably be the last baby boomers with the most wealth. Future generations, including our kids, will not likely be as lucky as many of us.

    As some of you may have read in this forum, many feel that the SilverHairsClub membership comprises mainly of pretty well-to-do members. They are educated, had good education, has strong assets, a good career and are still working fulltime or part-time.

    Kenneth, I do agree with you and James Koh that “3 months short term retirement overseas” may not happen, judging from feedback and from probably 95% of retirees. All, exactly for all the reasons that you mention.

    However, I do believe in that small 5%. I feel strongly that with 600,000 people and more each day over 65, in less than 8 years time, the squeeze will be all around us. And, during that time, many of us will be well into 65+.

    I had a good discussion with James, who disagree with the direction I would like to focus on. He felt that Singaporean seniors would rather spend 2 to a few weeks overseas, rather than longer periods overseas of 3 months.

    I have to admit I agree with him.

    But, why I do feel otherwise? Maybe, it is because I travel very extensively in Asia, and I see many countries offer good benefits for Singaporean RETIREES to spend 3 months overseas. I hope more will take the opportunity to see Asia and the world, not just for fun travel but also for retirement.

    Let’s welcome and encourage more feedback.

    Terence Seah

  83. Hi Terence @ #90.

    From my observation, your sharp mind is thinking far ahead of time. Currently, the majority of SHC members need not look to re-location to survive. With inflation at 2% – 5% per year, in 20 years time, the middle class, who depends on “old” money may find difficulty to carry on living in their normal lifestyle. That is when relocate to live in a cheaper place may become an attractive option.
    If I remember correctly, some time ago, one of the Ministers put out an idea of having an elderly village outside Singapore. I heard it became a hot potato, and there was no more talk of it.

    Currently, the majority of SHC members can well afford to go for one/two weeks holiday tours or cruises. Of course, if SHC can help to make such luxuries cheaper, then why not go for it?

    How would you like to pay S$900/pax for a two-week stay (twin sharing) inclusive of BLD in an out-of-the-way seaside hotel in Hainan. The hotel has a front garden on the beach. In the garden there are coconut trees with hammocks strung across. There will be not much activites during your two weeks stay there. But if you have a group of SHC members staying there at the same time, you can have indoor card games, outdoor games, swim or just laze in the hammocks.

    Any one volunteer to be the EO and tour leader? I will help only. Reason, at 79, I cannot shout loud for you to hear, and may not hear you correctly even you shout.

    Wai Jin

  84. Terence #90

    You misunderstand me… Did you not detect the smidgen of cynicism in my comment?

    I was trying to highight the real reasons why Singaporeans will not get out of their comfort zones.

    Why do Singaporeans migrate? They will do so for personal and pressing issues: like getting their kids out of NS, to build a better future, at their crossroads on job or career opportunities (real or perceived), etc.

    Wai Jin #91 has highlighted a situation which may more affect us seniors: Rising costs and inflation, crowded conditions, need to maintain our standard of living in a fast-moving, impersonal, city environment. However, even paying S$1,500 per month per person to live in a retirement community may be too expensive for many caught in this predicament.

    The irony is that only when it comes to the crunch will most Singaporeans seriously consider retirement alternatives overseas.

  85. Hi Kenneth #92,

    No worries, I did not misunderstand you. While you had stated clearly the reality of comfortable Singaporean retirees, you also saw the looming concerns facing Singapore’s aging population.

    Space will get more scarce. Beaches, clubs, restaurants, kopitiams, traffic junctions, trains, buses, fresh air, parks, coconut trees. We may be bound to the apartment or house, adding pressures to our children and maids. It is going to cost half an arm to enter a daycare centre.

    The minister, who raised the issue of an overseas retirement village, made a serious point.

    Terence Seah

  86. Hi all,

    This is my 1st time joining the thread or event in the club though I have been membership many years back.

    I am quite interested in the concept of retirement outside SG.

    As James Koh did initiated a new project “Alternative Lifestyle” – short term retirement overseas stay, I am quite keen to know the details.

    Keep me posted.

    Alice

  87. Here’s some update and feedback from the participating team.
    The key areas would differ from that of Alternate Lifestyle.

    They are:
    1. Target group retirees, not tourists. Suit mobile retirees.

    2. Unless there are country leaders, the targeted countries would be within the Asia Pac and for a max stay of 3 months.
    Target stays to be in line with country visas.

    3. There are no country leaders, although we have interested and knowledgeable members in the following countries.

    * Perth – Joan, Hou Chong, Terence
    * Thailand – Terence, Kenneth

    4. Two key directions suggested.
    * Identify venues where members have own accommodation overseas, for short term lease or rent.
    * Presently, Terence and Hou Chong have offered their homes for sub-lease to members. We hope more will participate.
    * The other direction is to develop a property for use by members. No one has offered to take us through this direction.

    4 Example from Terence from Perth.
    A family of spends about AUD 4000 a month or SGD 5200 for a 3 room house, in Perth, with each house able to accept 4-6 pax.
    * This works out to SGD 2,600 per pax, for 2 to a house. This includes food, car, transport and food and utilities.
    * This can mean that AUD 1,000 per person for 4 to a house.
    * If you are living in Perth, please share your experience).

    5. Comments from Audrey
    * It is important that mobile retirees living in Australia take care of the place/house and leave it as clean as the check-in condition. Housekeeping must be carried out accordingly, as there are no maids.
    * Cost is definitely important. Indiciduals should be responsible for themselves as different people have different standards. A leader should be responsible for the house but not the stay for the group as participants will want to do their own activities. They can collectively stay in the house and at the same time go off on their own for individual activities.
    * To kick start the project existing ‘2nd overseas homes’ of members will be good. When things are more settled, then other ventures can be considered.

    6. Hou Chong comments:
    Speaking from experience, the highest cost is in the start up. Once the basic requirements like household equipments, furniture, m/car are kitchen wares are organised, the routine cost would be easily managed. I feel that if SHC members were to pursue this idea seriously, they have study what are the start up cost associated with their expectations of the lifestyle.

    7. Wai Jing’s comments re a stay in Hainan:
    * No Project Funding needed. Retirees pay for their stay and food in terms of RMB. Room (twin sharing) 60.00/day. BLD = 100.00/pax/day. That means 130.00 perday.
    * Two months = say 61 days x 130 = 7,930.00 = S$1,586.00. Allow S$350.00 for budget airfare, transport, etc for outward and inward journey from Singapore.
    * Total cost for 3 months about $3,000.

    8. Other feedback from Australia:
    In Australia, the Australian Retirement Village works on the concept that “Older folks have no qualms about selling everything and going into such a village when the time comes.” We need to gather more details.
    Re: retirement village in Perth are not so popular among the Asian Aussies.
    * Re buy/rent property. There are certain rules eg foreign ownership which needs clearance from Firb (Foreign Investment Review Board) and rental lease usually 1 yr. (Joan)

    9. Joan Wong’s comments:
    * Project should consider relative and friends, and shorter term B&B stays.
    * I am thinking of Perth homestay or B & B accomodation in someone’s house/ apartment which can be for just a few days up to 2/3 mths. For B & B. it means they are able to move around on their own as buses/train stations/shopping/eating places are within walking distance. For homestay, they may wish to have a programme of activities outlined and where possible the host family can/need not be involved eg transport, guide etc. Some friends I spoke to are keen on this service. A directory or list of these accomodations with details to enable people to match their choices can be done and up to people to contact each other directly eg email.
    * For B & B and homestay, it’s up to individual to propose charges, either daily, weekly or monthly as accomodation, location etc varies.
    * There must be some objectives so that retirees lead meaningful lives eg community work, leisure activity etc. They won’t want shopping or sitting around. $1.5 K per mth per person is realistic. Accomodation is most expensive, at least 1K per month and medicals can be reimbursed from the travel insurance. How about fixed deposits in foreign currencies which give higher interests?

    There are no other suggestions or comments.
    The solid ideas are offers of accommodation for rent or lease to members.

    Terence Seah

  88. #91 Hi Wai Jin
    Being a hainanese I am intersted to know more about your beachside hotel more a week’s stay with some friends. Can I check out it’s website? etc.
    Thank you

  89. There was a survey which I put up under “Alternative Lifestyle”- aim to find out interested parties for staying two to three weeks overseas each time. Have you guys done that?

    James

  90. Hi James and fellow interests in Short term retirement outside Singapore,

    Update: discussion and feedback so far indicates absolutely no interests in 3 months short term retirement outside Singapore. Most would rather look at from 2 weeks to one month.

    The closest group is interested in following up and keeping up with the topic.

    Kenneth, it looks like you are very right, the project may not work.

    Terence Seah

  91. Hi Ah Sze #97

    The hotel name : Seascape Yezhuang Resort I have lost
    the hotel card with its telephone. It is about 1.5 Km from
    Hainan Prima Resort.

    Wai Jin

  92. Ho, ho, Terence

    No, I’m not gonna say “I told you so” but I’m still optimistic that we should still get the interest going. And you’re doing that with your planned monthly trips to different parts of Thailand.

    Maybe, and that’s a big maybe now, one day there will be a core number of SHCs ready and willing to take the plunge to venture into the great unknown and move out of their comfort and security. But until then…

  93. Hi Kenneth,

    After studying and discussing the feedback for a 3 month retirement stay outside Singapore, I am now even more confident that the scheme will work.

    The elderly numbers are clear. The costs are also clear. The space available for retirement is very clear. The Government is seeing the elderly issues coming strongly on us.

    The Japanese are smacked right into their own elderly problems. Thailand is not known for elderly and retirement planningm. But the Red Cross is building a Retirement home for elderlies, near the seaside.

    Will maids be forever the answer. Are we happy with one bed in a daycare home, paying $2,500 per month, at current cost in Singapore?

    Sonething I notice over the last 40 years is, the moment we stop work and enter retirement, and start relaxing, or do nothing, we die faster.

    It would be nice, not a dream, if SHC retirees go out together in groups of 24-30 to a selected overseas location, enjoying the benefits of fresh air, doing activities we have always wanted to do, lower costs, and yet close to Singapore, serious medical facilities and family members.

    And of course, the fun of knowing one another as SHC members.

    Terence Seah

  94. Hahaha!
    Terence: I’ve re-tired like a retread tyre for more than ten years! And somehow have not said good-bye yet!

    My vision of a retirement is to DO NOTHING! And start RELAXING! I may die faster… but I may also die happier!

    But back to the more interesting issue of retirement living:

    Very, very few Singaporean retirees look forward to spending their twilight years in some overseas retirement home. That is why the NTUC and other developers of old-age homes are yet to take off. They would rather die in Singapore even in NUH or SGH!

    A similar handful will consider living overseas as a second vacation home destination or a luxurious extended holiday. Needless to say they are a moneyed and separate class.

    Younger SHCs between 45 to 55 are still working and in their best earning years, building their nest egg, oftentimes squeezed between caring for children and aging parents, paying down their mortgate and car loan. I don’t expect them to spend more than 2 weeks anywhere. They are the ones going on these short expeditions with you.

    Finally, there are the vast majority of over 60s and retired like myself: The more active ones look forward to several holidays a year, eating (albeit at a lower pace), shopping (not for branded goods) but for health supplements and makeovers to look younger and slimmer.

    This group may be the likeliest target for short-term overseas retirement living. There are many other issues and concerns to address but costs is a major one.

    What other compelling reasons could we have to make us consider living overseas?

  95. Hi Kenneth,

    I foresee in the coming years, short term stay will be quite an “in thing”. We have now a generation of generally financially ok people. They have some money in their reserves, no liability but empty nests. Their children would be working hard and grandchildren most likely at some child care/ day care.
    They would continue to be reasonably mobile and will look for opportunities to enjoy themselves. And if they can find cheap accommodation in nearby countries, they would most likely be open to spend couple of weeks for a change of environment. This will be more so, if they have a group that they are familiar with. Decanting to a foreign country would probably not be in their mind then.
    SHC is poised to help members by having short trips out of countries, which is very successful from the uptake, and when the dynamics are right, the longer stay would be in vogue.

    BTW, I wonder what happen to those who have been commenting on this post. I have not heard from them if they are keen to help steer this project.

    They can stay by filling the survey at :

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dElMVDF6SDRXd1BTOHdtRGM2blpSRGc6MQ

    Regards

    James

  96. “Another one bites the dust!”

    Haha! James#104

    I’m just tongue-in-cheek with this saying. But yes, if you’re referring to the poor response you have on your post… it is just that. Do not expect many, if not enthusiastic, responses… it is just so.

    There are a majority who will not make their views known. They will prefer to be “back benchers” but it does not mean that they will not join any activity or project if it is in their interest. They are quiet, they are not gung-ho, they are rational. And they are THERE.

    Yes, it seems the idea for a short (up to two weeks) trip is viable and it should be the best approach now. Terence’s monthly jaunt to Thailand is a good start.

    So do keep on championing your cause; one day you will have the results you want.

  97. I hope more members will stand up and guide us through to the countries they are familiar with and interested in spending their retirement days.

    One of the questions and concerns raised with living in Thailand is the language. Many who join the discussion team felt Thai is a difficult language. For me, I went to school for 6 months, twice a week, each time 2.5 hours; and after work. Imagining me nodding off at 8pm during class. Total, I spend $1200 for attending a class of about 16 people. Today, I can read only slightgly more than 50% of a thai newspaper, road signs, food menu, get my way around, and even conduct meetings all in Thai and sign documents. However, I refuse to write because i cannot spend; although I can read as fast as the Karaoke script moves.

    So, if language is a problem, I think there is a way. If you have skype and is prepared to learn with your own tutor, from your home, you can learn conversation thai. This is a fast way to learn on a one-to-one.

    I am sure we can get you a teacher for about Baht 4,500 per month, for a one hour session a week. Min is 6 months. The teacher would be able to manage with some English; but the best way to learn fast is with a teacher in a Thai speaking environment. Are you keen to learn Thai?

    Terence Seah

  98. Hi Kenneth,

    Looks like this new kid on the block has to eat quite a fair bit of dust 🙁
    I agree that that will be the silent group of people who will wait what is on the table before subscribing to the buffet.But there are those who has commented, expressed interest and made a fair bit of suggesting– what happen to them. Sigh..

    James

  99. I do find this subject relevant and interesting for us. Each time Terence broach this subject there will be many inputs but the end result is the same. It is nonetheless an interesting topic to keep this forum alive.

    What I have difficulty understand is why do we need to form any committee to ‘bring it forward” or ‘do a feasibility study’. What would a group of oldies do that one old person cannot do by himself or herself.? Are we planning to be developers, group purchasing of properties, share houses or just go and live next to each other? Only Wai Jin suggested forming a pressure group to seek government financing to a foreign senior citizen home. Not many responded. I didn’t respond because I don’t think it will work for the next 20 years. After that, I am dead or immobile.

    People who are interested to stay abroad for long term are already there. They don’t need a committee to decide that. More people will go as we age and cost of living increases in Singapore. It is now and maybe always an individual and family decision.

    What we can do is share news on location and experiences from those who have lived that life. It will help us decide and prepare when the time comes to make that decision.

    So I hope more people will continue to share their ‘expatriate’ life here and continue the discussion on the pros and cons of different locations.

  100. Hi Tian Soo,

    I find it very interesting too that the team members have not met in a physical meeting yet. And yet, we get very good feedback from individuals just via email and on this forum.

    Personally, I am not disheartened by the low response. Those who had fedback had given quality comments, after having thought about the issue.

    My plan is still to look at the feedback closely, and try to work up the concept which will interest a few people, people who will back the idea and make it work. The proposal will also be used to attract would-be end users.

    Perhaps, out of every 1,000 people, 10 people are prepared to take up the idea. Hopefully, in a bigger mass of 100,000 people, 1,000 people would be interested. And, if this dream concept works, the idea can be a viable project which can in turn, open the eyes of SilverHairs in Singapore.

    Terence Seah

  101. My 2-ct’s worth…

    While pondering about short term retirement in an overseas location, seniors should also think about their preferred lifestyle when they are getting frail or wheelchair dependent, but not yet dementia stricken.

    We all like the idea of a retirement village in S’pore, but if it’s not a govt initiative, you can bet it’s going to be beyond the reach of the not-so-poor elderly…

    i think we can MODIFY the idea of living in a retirement village in S’pore if we desire this kind of community-living among the aged. Govt’s solution is studio flats with facilities … and amenities close by and i think this is the right direction to go in land scarce S’pore.

    We should have a new post if members are interested in giving their 2-ct’s worth on the topic of studio flats for the elderly in S’pore. Will start one if no one beats me to it. lol! 🙂

  102. Hi Jassmine,

    Yup, I agree with you. This thought had been around for a while. I had contemplating such a feasibility say, in Iskandar, where getting land to build basic “shoe box size” housing, with community facilities for all to congregate, perhaps with locum doctor on call.The development should be near a local hospital or near to Singapore.

    The only major set back is the labyrinth of changing rule and regulations over there…

  103. We started the discussion on this option of retiring 3 mths outside Singapore. I have closed the discussion end May and now I like to share with you the feedback and analysis.

    1. While the topic attracts interests, there is little support for this idea. Current members find 3 months too long for a mobile retiree to leave Singapore.

    2. Almost every retiree and would-retiree prefer to go on short trips, for various reasons. The reasons are still-working, looking after grand-children, where do they stay when they go away 3 mths, if they rent their place out, foreign language difficulties and Singapore still the best place to retire. Fear of the unknown and distance from families and friends are also key concerns. Many between 55 and 65 are still working part-time.

    3. Interesting to note is lower costs, hospital and medical availability, proximity to Singapore are not good reasons to retire out Singapore for 3 mths short period. For hospitalisation, the “no access to medisave” and medical insurance outside Singapore were concerns too.

    4. Fully retired Singaporeans are NOT interested to stay more than a few weeks outside Singapore.
    Almost all have a place to stay in Singapore. More than 90% see Singapore as the best place with all our needs for retirement. To stay out of Singapore, most see this as an additional cost, rather than a replacement cost of what it would cost them to stay in Singapore. It is cheaper to stay in Singapore during retirement.

    5. However, the scenario suddenly changes when the retiree becomes immobile. Members feedback indicate retirees would consider long term overseas when they cannot walk, are sick and a burden to their family. Those who indicate this interest feel that such projects should be handled at government level, due to the high costs and cross-country considerations.

    Thank you for your participation in the discussion. 438 members participated in this discussion via email. While the numbers are small, the topics attracts interests but little real consideration.

    The discussion is now closed. I am not likely to pursue this discussion within the near future.

    Terence Seah

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